Enlightenment is a paradigm

[vibv]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

@vibv Relax buddy. You are certainly not Awake if you are still seeing human as something less than God. God is imagining every single human being ever imaginable.

You are constantly telling yourself that you are less than yourself without even realizing it. Keep raising your consciousness when you are ready to drop the defenses.

Well I'm aware that I'm ultimately arguing with myself. I don't claim to be fully awake or something like that, I just claim that enlightenment in that sense doesn't exist – the sense being that it's some kind of ultimate end and that's it then, you're done. *sigh*

My consciousness fluctuates a lot, that's just my nature.

Well I'll gonna have to dive deeper into it myself.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, vibv said:

The only enlightenment that exists is the realization that there CAN NOT BE an enlightenment.

Its completely obvious: reality is infinite, so you are infinite. Enlightenment is realizing your true nature: the infinity. It's not realize the fact that you are infinite, is to open yourself to the infinity now and become infinite. Because you are that, really. Now the infinity is, and you are that, but it's veiled. Remove the veil of the shape, and realize what you are. It's not easy, but if you really want and give yourself, you can do, it's a matter of surrender, drop the self, the need of knowing, understanding, grasping. Just die.

[vibv]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Its completely obvious: reality is infinite, so you are infinite. Enlightenment is realizing your true nature: the infinity. It's not realize the fact that you are infinite, is to open yourself to the infinity now and become infinite. Because you are that, really. Now the infinity is, and you are that, but it's veiled. Remove the veil of the shape, and realize what you are. It's not easy, but if you really want and give yourself, you can do, it's a matter of surrender, drop the self, the need of knowing, understanding, grasping. Just die.

Yeah I get the idea. But then what? (do the dishes I know lol) I just have this strong feeling (and knowing in some moments) that that is not where the party is at so to speak.

I don't deny that you can have that experience of absolute infinity, I just don't think that's the whole point.

[vibv]

10 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

WHEN HUMAN BECOMES GOD, THEN YOU WILL KNOW

LOL

I am God and I will experience that sometime. But I'm in absolutely no hurry to return. It will happen anyway when it's time.

[vibv]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Its completely obvious: reality is infinite, so you are infinite. Enlightenment is realizing your true nature: the infinity. It's not realize the fact that you are infinite, is to open yourself to the infinity now and become infinite. Because you are that, really. Now the infinity is, and you are that, but it's veiled. Remove the veil of the shape, and realize what you are. It's not easy, but if you really want and give yourself, you can do, it's a matter of surrender, drop the self, the need of knowing, understanding, grasping. Just die.

Ah and to add: It is still an experience. There is no ultimate experience except this one.

And infinity is not all there's to it...

Edited September 27, 2023 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, vibv said:

Yeah I get the idea. But then what?

Then you try to be open to reality as much as possible. The fact of opening yourself to the nature of the infinite brings with it real understanding of the movement of reality, direct vision outside the conceptual mind. You are not reading a book about coral reefs, you are in the coral reefs directly, perceiving the movement. One thing is the nature of reality (lets say enlightenment) and another is the movement of reality, the dance of the infinite manifesting itself. This has no end, each color, texture, movement, sensation, idea, manifests the perfection and complexity of this structure. The taste of its essence becomes more and more obvious, and I seems that the understanding becomes deeper and deeper.

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, vibv said:

Ah and to add: It is still an experience. There is no ultimate experience except this one.

And infinity is not all there's to it...

You can open yourself to the infinity or not, reality will continue to develop equally, but it seems that this opening is an evolutionary step towards which it is tending. At a level of complexity, reality creates the necessary breeding ground for this act to take place.

[vibv]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then you try to be open to reality as much as possible. The fact of opening yourself to the nature of the infinite brings with it real understanding of the movement of reality, direct vision outside the conceptual mind. You are not reading a book about coral reefs, you are in the coral reefs directly, perceiving the movement. One thing is the nature of reality (lets say enlightenment) and another is the movement of reality, the dance of the infinite manifesting itself. This has no end, each color, texture, movement, sensation, idea, manifests the perfection and complexity of this structure. The taste of its essence becomes more and more obvious, and I seems that the understanding becomes deeper and deeper.

You know what? I already got that going on lol

i will experience this infinity stuff and report back — but what if you don’t need to have had that specific awakening ?

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, vibv said:

but what if you don’t need to have had that specific awakening ?

I think you have to because it's like the openess to reality. It is something that you first intuit, and you also intuit the barrier that prevents you from seeing, so the disciplined types do thousands of hours of meditation and the less disciplined less hours but they fry their brains with psychedelics (like me) until they break the structures and can perceive as much as possible what reality is.  

It's something like you can't open the door, because you are the door. You can only use dynamite and blow it up, blow yourself up, but even then, it won't work because you will still be there taking notes, and that way, you will still be the door, but if you are subtle and you realize that, your greed for knowledge, and You let it go, then you can let go of your self, let it fall into the void, and the door disappears. 

[vibv]

This feels all so sneaky. There’s this hidden assumption that all it’s about is to know who you are.

But LOVE is here, right now, in the fleeting moment. Only here real beauty is created, not in the absolute undefined potential of Infinity.

Nothing happens in infinity if it doesn’t happen here. This planet, this humanity is what’s really important. All Infinity means nothing in contrast.

[UnbornTao]

6 hours ago, vibv said:

@UnbornTao I don't talk about enlightenment at all when I present my current understanding of reality. I'm not interested in enlightenment anymore, because that theme is done for me. There's nothing more to do there.

All I say is there's something beyond enlightenment. Enlightenment, too, has to be transcended at some point.

Thinking of enlightenment as a paradigm, something to transcend. If it's absolute it can't be grasped by mind and is best left as an unknown.

I don't think you can truly understanding life, self and reality without "enlightenments".

Are you absolutely and completely conscious of everything there is? Is there more you could become conscious of, both in the relative and absolute domains?

Be honest with yourself. It's OK you don't know. As a matter of fact it's the game in town. 

[SeaMonster]

6 hours ago, vibv said:

There's absolutely nothing to drop except what I CHOOSE to be. I AM OMNIPOTENT AND I CHOOSE THAT

LOL THIS is it! There's NOTHING to achieve. You STILL are in the relative don't you see that!?

FULL AWAKENING IS IMPOSSIBLE AS A HUMAN

LOL.  Get fucking serious.  This is such typical forum bullshit.  Just 'cause you call yourself birdie, doesn't mean you have sprouted wings and can fly.

Edited September 28, 2023 by SeaMonster

[vibv]

6 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Thinking of enlightenment as a paradigm, something to transcend. If it's absolute it can't be grasped by mind and is best left as an unknown.

I don't think you can truly understanding life, self and reality without "enlightenments".

Are you absolutely and completely conscious of everything there is? Is there more you could become conscious of, both in the relative and absolute domains?

Be honest with yourself. It's OK you don't know. As a matter of fact it's the game in town. 

I certainly don’t know everything, I’m not nearly finished

There are just certain things I became conscious of that go against everything that’s taught

[vibv]

2 hours ago, SeaMonster said:

LOL.  Get fucking serious.  This is such typical forum bullshit.  Just 'cause you call yourself birdie, doesn't mean you have sprouted wings and can fly.

I’m doing the work, I’m gonna awaken much more deeply in the future.

All I’m saying is that nobody else is done, either 

[gettoefl]

30 minutes ago, vibv said:

I’m doing the work, I’m gonna awaken much more deeply in the future.

All I’m saying is that nobody else is done, either 

first best to get out of the comparison business ... that is the relative at it worst ... everyone is on track, everyone is marvellous and magnificent

you are the absolute, get that straight and abide right there, afterwards enjoy all the multifaceted awakenings you please

yes relative and absolute are identical ... enligtenment and unenligtenment the same ... however one needs to jump off the cliff to realize this

the so called seer is just one object in the pristine tapestry and nothing special or particularly splendid at that ... you are me just as much as you

[Razard86]

7 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

first best to get out of the comparison business ... that is the relative at it worst ... everyone is on track, everyone is marvellous and magnificent

you are the absolute, get that straight and abide right there, afterwards enjoy all the multifaceted awakenings you please

yes relative and absolute are identical ... enligtenment and unenligtenment the same ... however one needs to jump off the cliff to realize this

the so called seer is just one object in the pristine tapestry and nothing special or particularly splendid at that ... you are me just as much as you

^^^This

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, SeaMonster said:

Just 'cause you call yourself birdie, doesn't mean you have sprouted wings and can fly.

Do NOT make fun of Buzz Lightyear.

[vibv]

43 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

first best to get out of the comparison business ... that is the relative at it worst ... everyone is on track, everyone is marvellous and magnificent

you are the absolute, get that straight and abide right there, afterwards enjoy all the multifaceted awakenings you please

yes relative and absolute are identical ... enligtenment and unenligtenment the same ... however one needs to jump off the cliff to realize this

the so called seer is just one object in the pristine tapestry and nothing special or particularly splendid at that ... you are me just as much as you

Exactly.

BUT there's much that needs broken through. It's the principle of Shiva, the Wrath of God. Anger is not bad but needs to be used to cut through ignorance.

I don't compare who is farther on their journey, you misunderstood me there. I know that everyone is perfectly at the point on their path that gives them the ideal opportunities to grow.

Life is my greatest teacher and you're all part of it 

Edited September 28, 2023 by vibv

[vibv]

14 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@vibv Have several enlightenments first. Can't transcend what you are not conscious of. In any case, it is silly to think that it can be transcended. You are talking about something relative, perhaps an insight, and may have concluded this is all there is to the story. I'm suggesting you might actually not know what enlightenment is. In that case, remaining open and contemplating, as if you were waiting, is better than making conclusions.

I've had many "enlightenments" and awakenings. What I reject is the idea that there is an event that ends all suffering and after which nothing matters anymore.

I don't try to get rid of suffering anymore and that makes me be at peace with it in a way. That's why I say I'm done with it. The word "enlightenment" just doesn't fit anymore for my further journey.

It's incredibly difficult to talk about these things. You can say one thing and the exact opposite and they're both true from a certain perspective. Of course nothing ultimately matters, what I mean would be more accurately described as "indifference", this idea that nothing touches you anymore.

If your enlightenment doesn't make you MORE passionate there's something wrong.

Again: I don't claim to be fully awake.

Edited September 28, 2023 by vibv

[Water by the River]

10 hours ago, vibv said:

There's absolutely nothing to drop except what I CHOOSE to be. I AM OMNIPOTENT AND I CHOOSE THAT

LOL THIS is it! There's NOTHING to achieve. You STILL are in the relative don't you see that!?

FULL AWAKENING IS IMPOSSIBLE AS A HUMAN

 

3 hours ago, SeaMonster said:

LOL.  Get fucking serious.  This is such typical forum bullshit.  Just 'cause you call yourself birdie, doesn't mean you have sprouted wings and can fly.

Yes.

If I would be author of the youtube-videos causing these conceptual Solipsism Ego-Inflations, I would scream now AWAKENING. NONCONCEPTUAL NONDUAL AWAKENING. And not just some contemplating and new solipsistic Ego=God concepts/worldviews on top of the olds ones.

But apparently that screaming of AWAKENING is mostly being done in other contexts, like deflating meditation/serious longterm practice, or the possibility of Realizing the True Nature of oneself and Reality, or Full Enlightenment.

I mean, can it get any more obvious and unvoluntarily parody-like? I know, all these little conceptual solipsism outbursts (OMNIPOTENT) serve exactly their job of highlighting where these kind of teachings lead to, but sometimes I wonder if it is more of an intellectual-insult or really great unvoluntary parody. Or both? I truly don't know... 

 

And here the TikTok-like version of the post above: