Nightly dreams

[Helton Abrantes]

Since reality is a consciousness phenomenon it follows that the dreams we have at night are also something that is not happening in a physical brain. Therefore, shouldn't we be as careful of what do in these dreams as we actually are in "real life", which is, in fact, another dream?

From the absolute perspective as most of you would actually agree - I think -, we can do whatever we want on both situations, But do you get my point in this scenario? Could be, somehow, a dream that we have while we are sleeping at night thought to be something like with the same consequences to the "Higher Consciousness" as the consequences we get from the "real life"?

What are your thoughts on this issue? Is this a stupid idea?

[Leo Gura]

Murder people in your dreams so you don't have to in real life

[Osaid]

I get what you're saying. But you're projecting waking state logic onto the dream. The waking state logic is exactly what allows you to perceive the experience as a dream in the first place. Waking state is deciding "this is and isn't harmful." You are not having this conundrum during the dream state. The dream state has nothing to do with it, and therefore the waking state conundrum actually does not exist there for the time being, and this is exactly what defines a dream.

The sentiment of your conclusion doesn't really matter. To dream means that you're not conscious of the waking state. If you are conscious of the waking state, only then does the dream become a dream. When you're dreaming, the dream is not a dream. When you're awake, only then you can say "that was a dream" because the waking state contrasts it. So there's nothing to do at all, really. If you're dreaming, you're already doing the best you can. If you're lucid dreaming, you can simply see that it is a dream and it won't have any affect on you because it gets recontextualized as harmless brain activity and you can also act lucidly like your normal self would. That becomes your new dream, so to speak. The dream then adopts the context of a "lucid person."

There are certain states like sleep paralysis and astral projection which might have more "realness", but those are different and I wouldn't consider them dreams.

Is it possible for dreams to affect the waking state? In a sense. But it always stays as a dream, because it is a dream. So it's indirect at best. Anything else is not a dream anymore.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Osaid

[StarStruck]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Murder people in your dreams so you don't have to in real life

I’m murdering aliens in my dream or at least I’m trying 

Edited September 24, 2023 by StarStruck

[Helton Abrantes]

28 minutes ago, Osaid said:

If you're lucid dreaming, you can simply see that it is a dream and it won't have any affect on you because it gets recontextualized as harmless brain activity and you can also act lucidly like your normal self would. That becomes your new dream, so to speak. The dream then adopts the context of a "lucid person."

@Osaid, I believe I get the point you made that there is not much we can do about the fact when we are not aware we are sleeping.

Considering this case of lucid dreaming, I am having trouble understand what you said to be honest. This lucid dreaming experience, in truth, we know that is not "harmless brain activity", it is just another kind of experience in consciousness. So, in the grand cosmic scheme wouldn't that have consequences to the Self we are not aware of? 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I’m murdering aliens in my dream or at least I’m trying 

Murder faster!

[Helton Abrantes]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Murder faster!

Yeah, do it faster before they implant a chip in your ass!

[Osaid]

17 minutes ago, Helton Abrantes said:

This lucid dreaming experience, in truth, we know that is not "harmless brain activity", it is just another kind of experience in consciousness. So, in the grand cosmic scheme wouldn't that have consequences to the Self we are not aware of? 

When you're lucid, the experience of being lucid is you imagining yourself sleeping in real life. Your waking state memory is discovered. That comes with imagining brain activity and a real physical body. Of course that is not directly experienced. But I am saying that being lucid is you "overlaying" that story of you existing in the waking state onto the dream. That is the only way for you to come to the conclusion "Oh, this is a dream I'm having." Your waking state identity is meshed with the dream identity, and your waking state identity involves a human who has brain activity and dreams.

The idea of "having brain activity" is an idea and experience that occurs in consciousness. Consciousness can imagine that it does have brain activity and that the dream state is harmless.

Yes, the experience is as real as can be. And it is experienced. But it does not have to have consequences which you are unaware of, consciousness can of course be aware of that if it wants. "consequences to self" is always just whatever you experience, ultimately. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Osaid

[T_i_m]

19 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I’m murdering aliens in my dream or at least I’m trying 

I recently killed a puppy, smashed his skull. Another night I tried to drown some rodent with cute big eyes

[Michal__]

1 minute ago, Osaid said:

When you're lucid, the experience of being lucid is you imagining yourself sleeping in real life. Your waking state memory is discovered. That comes with imagining brain activity and a real physical body. Of course that is not directly experienced. But I am saying that being lucid is you "overlaying" that story of you existing in the waking state onto the dream. That is the only way for you to come to the conclusion "Oh, this is a dream I'm having." Your waking state identity is meshed with the dream identity, and your waking state identity involves a human who has brain activity and dreams.

The idea of "having brain activity" is an idea and experience that occurs in consciousness. Consciousness can imagine that it does have brain activity and that the dream state is harmless.

Yes, the experience is as real as can be. And it is experienced. But it does not have to have consequences which you are unaware of, consciousness can of course be aware of that if it wants. "consequences to self" is always just whatever you experience, ultimately. 

You know how your "waking reality" influences your "dreams"? Your "dreams" influence your "reality".

Want to meet up with someone you know IRL? Lucid dream and agree with them on a meeting date and place. Record what happens "in your waking reality" ;).

[T_i_m]

Some lucid dreaming teachers say that it's good for your mental health to be nice to your dream and the characters there when you are lucid, because in some way they represents parts of your psyche. And I found that being nice to the dream and the characters makes the dream more cooperative. When you don't try to force things and stay nice and respectful the dream is more willing to help you have the good experience that you want

[Osaid]

2 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

You know how your "waking reality" influences your "dreams"? Your "dreams" influence your "reality".

Want to meet up with someone you know IRL? Lucid dream and agree with them on a meeting date and place. Record what happens "in your waking reality" ;).

That's fine, but I would make a distinction and say that the dream stays a dream. It's indirect in the way it affects reality. I make that distinction because it still operates within this paradigm of "I was sleeping, dreamt something, and then it changed something in the waking state."

Edited September 24, 2023 by Osaid

[Osaid]

11 minutes ago, T_i_m said:

I recently killed a puppy, smashed his skull. Another night I tried to drown some rodent with cute big eyes

....In a dream?

[Michal__]

Just now, Osaid said:

That's fine, but the dream stays a dream. It's indirect in the way it affects reality. I make that distinction because it still operates within this paradigm of "I was sleeping, dreamt something, and then it changed something in the waking state."

 

I am not arguing about the distinction. "Waking reality" is much more stable. And your way to frame it is solid.

Just saying that the way it affects waking life is not weaker than how reality affects dreams. 

[Osaid]

29 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

Just saying that the way it affects waking life is not weaker than how reality affects dreams. 

Oh, interesting. I feel most people wouldn't have this sentiment though. Is it because they don't know how to use the dream properly, or are they simply unaware of how it is affecting them? Or both?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Osaid

[StarStruck]

51 minutes ago, T_i_m said:

I recently killed a puppy, smashed his skull. Another night I tried to drown some rodent with cute big eyes

I’m just trying to mind my business but this alien is trying to take me out so technically it is self defense. The alien has so much high tech weapons  like invisibility coating and energetic weapons. 

[Michal__]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

Oh, interesting. I feel most people wouldn't have this sentiment though. Is it because they don't know how to use the dream properly, or are they simply unaware of how it is affecting them? Or both?

I personally needed a lot of dream work, all day awareness, a lot of concentration, many thousands of dreams recalled, close to 1500 astral projections and/or lucid dreams to perceive it.

Work a boring job all day = dream about your work

Dream up a fountain of money just sliding through the dream = get 5 new clients. 

Repeated testing with different things = same results.

So the answer is probably awareness. And awareness automatically leads to better dream control and recall.

You might have dreamt about hundreds of scenarios before they happened, just haven't written them down. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Michal__

[Helton Abrantes]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

The idea of "having brain activity" is an idea and experience that occurs in consciousness. Consciousness can imagine that it does have brain activity and that the dream state is harmless.

@Osaid, that's make a lot of sense. I will have to contemplate on it to really grasp it though, because I'm struggling to see the fact I can imagine that it really is harmless and this is different from real life.

Thank you.

[Loveeee]

19 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

close to 1500 astral projections and/or lucid dreams 

What's your method ? Ever tried while tripping ? 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Loveeee