Enlightenment Is Actual and not an Illusion ?

[vibv]

44 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sorry I can't remove the quote. 

Anyway, Those who say: I am enlightened, do they mean that they have had specific experiences of the absolute, or that they are installed there full time? because I have had some total openings, some more or less long, but for example right now I am trapped in my mind. It depends on the moment, if you are meditating, if you take some substance, the mind becomes lighter. but then it comes back. 

For me enlightenment is only now. Remembering an experience from yesterday is not enlightenment. You were enlightened yesterday, but today you are not

Yep, I see it the same way.

I regularly have those moments but between those I‘m involved in the dream to various degrees.

Also every one of those moments of recognition is unique and they also come in various degrees. Generally my day to day consciousness keeps increasing generally, but there are times when I fall back pretty hard for some period of time, only to awaken more deeply after.

The sentiment of some seems to be that if it deepens it can’t be the real thing. In my experience and through insights during those moments I’m convinced that the depth knows no end. 

If there is a „final awakening“ it will not be possible to return, that I’m pretty sure of.

[vibv]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

One question, have you completely stopped the mental flow and opened yourself completely to the now? can you do it easily? Realizing now what you are is enlightenment. having an opaque mind is not. knowing that only you exist and that is not enlightenment, enlightenment is not knowing, it is dropping the mind and being completely open to what is.

I know both from direct experience.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, vibv said:

The sentiment of some seems to be that if it deepens it can’t be the real thing. In my experience and through insights during those moments I’m convinced that the depth knows no end. 

If there is a „final awakening“ it will not be possible to return, that I’m pretty sure of.

1 hour ago, vibv said:

 

Yes the depth has not end, but you can realize that what you are is absolute depth, so you don't need to dig In the depth. You realize that infinite depth is infinite everything, and that's it, that is the absolute, what you are.

By the way, people who say: enlightenment is realizing that you are God creating the universe... well, there are several things here, on the one hand God, then the action of creating, and the result, the cosmos. All this is not total absolute infinity, it is the manifestation of the fact of the absence of limits, but in total awakening there is no god, no cosmos or creation, there is total undifferentiated infinity, the absolute. You could say that the inevitable consequence of the absolute is God, it is, let's say, posterior, so no absolute. The absolute is immutable, and god is change. these are my realizations, they may be inaccurate, except the realization of absolute infinity which is unequivocal

[vibv]

@Breakingthewall  Okay, now we're talking. It's difficult to talk about these things because everybody seems to use different terms for the same thing and vice versa.

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes the depth has not end, but you can realize that what you are is absolute depth, so you don't need to dig In the depth. You realize that infinite depth is infinite everything, and that's it, that is the absolute, what you are.

I know that I am that.

But that's not where the fun is at. That was an awakening and insight I had. Here on this earth being a human is where we belong and where things are happening. It's important to realize that you are prior to everything so you don't get lost in it so easily, but after that it's about the PLAY.

Lila - the divine play - is not a trivial thing. It has way more depth than most spiritual people seem to be aware of. If you're ignoring this because it's just relativity, it's just one finite expression of the infinite, the Absolute, then you didn't have this realization yet.

We're here to Play. Thinking that once you got "it" you're done is just human spiritual paradigm and false, that's not what this is ultimately about. It's about EXPERIENCING divine Love and Beauty - which has no end to its depth - not just KNOWING that you are that.

[vibv]

In my day to day I live with the awareness that everything that happens is absolutely perfect and that this very moment IS the current expression of the Absolute, there's nothing beyond that and never will be.

It is very clear to me that some sort of further realization of nothingness/everythingness or unexpressed infinite potential holds no further value to me. That's what's absolutely clear in my direct awareness. It's enough to have had that realization, and that mustn't be a huge event. It's more like a simple "aha".

If that's what you mean by "enlightenment", it's no experience at all, it's just a recognition. Otherwise it would just be another experience you remember after it happened.

Edited September 25, 2023 by vibv

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, vibv said:

@Breakingthewall  Okay, now we're talking. It's difficult to talk about these things because everybody seems to use different terms for the same thing and vice versa.

I know that I am that.

But that's not where the fun is at. That was an awakening and insight I had. Here on this earth being a human is where we belong and where things are happening. It's important to realize that you are prior to everything so you don't get lost in it so easily, but after that it's about the PLAY.

Lila - the divine play - is not a trivial thing. It has way more depth than most spiritual people seem to be aware of. If you're ignoring this because it's just relativity, it's just one finite expression of the infinite, the Absolute, then you didn't have this realization yet.

We're here to Play. Thinking that once you got "it" you're done is just human spiritual paradigm and false, that's not what this is ultimately about. It's about EXPERIENCING divine Love and Beauty - which has no end to its depth - not just KNOWING that you are that.

FINALLY!!!! Someone else with a semblance of understanding why we are here!!! Thank you!!! I'm so glad you got it....now if only the other parts of our "body" could wake up and get it too.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, vibv said:

That was an awakening and insight I had.

I think we have to manage to stay at that point full time. It is about replacing our psychological construction with real openness. go from a dead robotic mind to a living mind. A single realization is good, but what do you want? Stay in the psychological mind? In the conceptual? That's a shit. 

2 hours ago, vibv said:

but after that it's about the PLAY.

I wouldn't say play, but get deeper in the richness of the now. Well, you could call it play if you want. 

Reality is like a lake of infinite depth. enlightenment is realizing that you are an infinite lake. To be in the conceptual mind is to skate on the flat surface, a linear dimension. Once you realize the infinite, the surface breaks, the conceptual becomes irrelevant and you are no longer trapped there, and you can begin to truly see what the now is. It is one thing to realize that you are infinite and another thing is the depth with which you can perceive the now. Those who say: I am enlightened, there is nothing else, they are blind. Being enlightened is normal, it is realizing what you are, once you are there, you live. To say: I'm enlightened, so I ve no more desire, is false. 

[vibv]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

but what do you want?

Transcending humanity.

[Yimpa]

35 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think we have to manage to stay at that point full time. It is about replacing our psychological construction with real openness. go from a dead robotic mind to a living mind. A single realization is good, but what do you want? Stay in the psychological mind? In the conceptual? That's a shit. 

Then you’re still creating a bias that one experience is better than another. 

God doesn’t mind being a homeless person over a unicorn or the entire cosmos.

Enjoy yourself, but consider dropping the idea that you have to be in some radically open state of consciousness all the time. Doing so is actually putting a great deal of limitation on your potential for openness, intuition, and expansion. 

[Breakingthewall]

51 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Then you’re still creating a bias that one experience is better than another. 

Yes, I prefer spend the day on a tropical island than be tortured by the Holy Inquisition and then burned alive. I have never said that I want to not have preferences, but by maintaining marked preferences to be able to be open to the now. Just because the other option is insanity 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

47 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, I prefer spend the day on a tropical island than be tortured by the Holy Inquisition and then burned alive. I have never said that I want to not have preferences, but by maintaining marked preferences to be able to be open to the now. Just because the other option is insanity 

^^^^What I highlighted is a preference and will stop you from obtaining what you desire. If you desire to be open...just be open. That's it. Just practice being present till it runs on autopilot. Here is a secret....thinking does not take you out of the present moment, that is a distinction a bias you are creating. You can have thoughts and be present. Because where do thoughts arise? In the present. You never leave the present, you tell yourself that and then imagine that. 

You are stuck in imagination. Here is a secret. You have what we call the waking dream which is God's imagination, then God creates the ego to intepret said imagination and then as a result you experience the ego's imagination being projected on the imagination. Think of it as a lens. You can zoom out the lens..., but you can only do it by not being attached to thought. If you desire thought or resist thought both are attachment. You just be indifferent. Being present, is just being indifferent. 

Oh and the ego isn't robotic lol, the ego cries, and laughs, you want to experience being like a robot? Become absolutely indifferent....without attachment lol. The true goal is to be both attached and indifferent at the same time. If you are totally indifferent then you are robotic and inanimate, if you are too attached you become selfish, and neurotic. But if you become both...then you are both life and death. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Razard86

[Yimpa]

@Breakingthewall You’d be surprised at how your Mind can reinterpret some of the most gruesome experiences ever imaginable. And I’m not referring to hypothetical scenarios or even merely being an “observer” to them, but full-on direct experience. Even more immersed than what you can ever experience from human states of consciousness. 

Keep in mind that this can happen even if you don’t set an intention or tell yourself beforehand, “I want to experience insanity! Let’s jump off a towering bridge into a sea of gravel and see what happens!” No! You don’t choose to wind up in such direct experiences, but I can tell you that even if you do that’s it’s not the end of the story.

This requires enormous trust in yourself, and the only one who’ll be able to save yourself IS yourself. There’s no rule book or step-by-step process on how to overcome such experiences when they happen. You’ll literally have to search deep within yourself for your highest intuition and then just DO IT.

If you can overcome extreme insanity even just a few times, that’ll set you up on an even clearer path towards Infinite Beauty.

[Breakingthewall]

47 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

^^^^What I highlighted is a preference and will stop you from obtaining what you desire. If you desire to be open...just be open.

I understand what you say but realistically, there are things that I don't want to give up and that I am going to fight for. I prefer to have money than not to have it, I prefer to have intelligent and profound people around me than stupid evil people, I prefer health to illness, etc. I know that if you give up all bias, opening is easier, but I think that without having to do so, opening is also possible.

[Yimpa]

@Breakingthewall Good awareness on your part. Let’s see how long those beliefs will carry weight.

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Breakingthewall Good awareness on your part. Let’s see how long those beliefs will carry weight.

Simply being realistic and looking for the best option

[Yimpa]

@Breakingthewall

What’s assumed as “the best” is based on what’s currently known to be “right”.

For example, you might be aware of eggs. We used to assume that whole eggs (specifically, the dietary cholesterol from the yolk) was bad for your heart and should be avoided. This was largely based on scientific research and government dietary guidelines at the time. Then, many people started diluting their perception of eggs by eating only egg whites instead of the whole egg.

However, times have changed and our understanding of dietary cholesterol… it’s not as “wrong” as we once believed. Whole eggs are now recommended for healthy fats, vitamin, minerals, antioxidants, etc.
(compared to just the egg white, which is mostly just protein and water… how enlightening ).

Just make sure not to eat the eggshells still ? 

 

[vibv]

@Yimpa @Breakingthewall It's all perfect in its context. Dysfunction has a reason, often some kind of misunderstanding. It is beautiful because it shows you a lack of understanding of some part of reality.

War is perfect because it is an expression of our egoic structures. by feeling the pain and seeing all the tragedy it becomes clear that our ways were wrong.

Essentially suffering means that we're not in alignment with Love. Suffering is love because it tells us our disconnection from it in a way that's impossible to ignore. Suffering is often the greatest teacher.

No suffering is ever for nothing. It all pans out in the end.

[vibv]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I understand what you say but realistically, there are things that I don't want to give up and that I am going to fight for. I prefer to have money than not to have it, I prefer to have intelligent and profound people around me than stupid evil people, I prefer health to illness, etc. I know that if you give up all bias, opening is easier, but I think that without having to do so, opening is also possible.

Having no money can lead to the experience of becoming wealthy, which is way more amazing than just being rich.

If you recognize that the people around you are stupid and evil it's a great hint that you have unfinished emotional business somewhere. The people around you are never random.

Illness can be really painful and uncomfortable. But it can also tell you that some things you did in your life don't work our anymore. It is the body fighting for its survival, which is an expression of Love. The possibility of illness also gets you to treat your body well. It makes you appreciate being healthy in the first place.

Edited September 25, 2023 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

39 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

What’s assumed as “the best” is based on what’s currently known to be “right”.

The best It is what your intelligence tells you is best. No one can do it for you, only you can choose, and only your intuition can tell you the direction to take. Nothing is guaranteed, in the rat maze many paths have no exit. They lead to sadness, loneliness, depression, being trapped.  human life is a hard game because mistakes usually are not paid for with death but with madness

Edited September 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

25 minutes ago, vibv said:

Having no money can lead to the experience of becoming wealthy, which is way more amazing than just being rich.

If you recognize that the people around you are stupid and evil it's a great hint that you have unfinished emotional business somewhere. The people around you are never random.

Illness can be really painful and uncomfortable. But it can also tell you that some things you did in your life don't work our anymore. It is the body fighting for its survival, which is an expression of Love. The possibility of illness also gets you to treat your body well. It makes you appreciate being healthy in the first place.

Yes, I agree, but anyway you will always push in one direction. If you stop pushing, you're lost, or so it seems. You have to work in all fields as inspired and aligned as possible, but you have to work in one direction, always. life is movement. It is very likely that if you are able to stop completely, not wanting anything, you will reach much greater levels of clarity and depth, but it is not time for that yet. We still have to be connected, on the move. The challenge is to achieve the greatest clarity and depth while in motion.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall