Enlightenment Is Actual and not an Illusion ?

[vibv]

4 minutes ago, Osaid said:

As I've said many times, it's not an insight or understanding that you integrate, as you do with awakenings. Awakenings can be imagined and chased after forever, yes. Not enlightenment.

Of course it's an insight. Just a different magnitude than those that came before. It is infinite, yes. But that doesn't mean that there can't be anything after it.

Saying you had an enlightenment and now you're done is like saying you fucked a woman once and now you don't have to anymore.

[Osaid]

Just now, vibv said:

Of course it's an insight.

It's not an insight you integrate, so it's not intellectual or memory based like awakenings. You're not "deepening" it and "fitting it in", that is intellect and finite mind.

It's as insightful as seeing the color red or hearing sound. It's just experiential. It's something you are directly conscious of.

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

It is infinite, yes. But that doesn't mean that there can't be anything after it.

Again, this entire statement is an attempt to "go beyond the absolute."

"Reality is infinite" can also just be seen as saying "reality is reality." If you follow this, you are saying that there is something beyond reality. There just isn't.

When you say "reality is infinite, but there's more!" as if that is just one aspect out of many, that is your mind partitioning reality into different components. But reality is one.

[Hello from Russia]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Understanding is infinite, ending in Omniscience.

What do you mean by omniscience?

[Yimpa]

@Hello from Russia All-Knowing GOD. Not some type of science or theory.

Understand that your profile pic is not merely a hand or the color red or a rose or a phone or a computer or glass or pixels or matter or atoms or light or fingers, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc…… It’s LOVE!

[vibv]

12 minutes ago, Osaid said:

When you say "reality is infinite, but there's more!" as if that is just one aspect out of many, that is your mind partitioning reality into different components. But reality is one.

I don't question the insight, it's just not the final one.

I know that it is impossible from your point of view, but why do you think that that's a limitation? Your human mind cannot grasp the possibility, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

I too had insights into the nature of the Absolute that seemed absolutely final (and were at the time for all intents and purposes). Experiential in nature as you describe, not intellectual. But as it turns out... wait.. there's more lol

Your mind tells you it's impossible, but it's lying, simple as that. Don't trust a finite mind when making conclusions about the Infinite.

It's a paradigm lock. You're so focused on the finality that you can't conceive of any other possibility. And your mind is literally incapable of that. Only God can do that.

That experience of "enlightenment" was outside of your mind, but now you use the mind to conclude that this had to be the final awakening.

[Yimpa]

7 minutes ago, vibv said:

Your mind tells you it's impossible, but it's lying, simple as that. Don't trust a finite mind when making conclusions about the Infinite.

Give it a box of chocolates, maybe it will comply den ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Yimpa

[Osaid]

16 minutes ago, vibv said:

That experience of "enlightenment" was outside of your mind, but now you use the mind to conclude that this had to be the final awakening.

No, I'm not using mind or paradigms at all. I'm enlightened. So everything I'm saying is just me describing what I am directly experiencing right now. I am directly conscious of what I speak about. I know that this is different from how awakenings tend to be, though.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Osaid

[r0ckyreed]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Understanding is infinite, ending in Omniscience.

How so? Understanding is relative, which makes it finite? A person with an IQ of 35 will have a limited understanding of reality compared to a person with 1000 IQ. The 1000 IQ will have limited understanding compared to the alien with 1000000000 IQ, etc. 

Even if we ignore other people and focus on myself strictly, our brains are wired in biased ways that limits our understanding and perception of reality.

Human understanding is going to be finite because the brain is limited. To be human is to be finite. If your understanding of reality was infinite, then you couldn’t be a human and dealing with normal human endeavors. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. To have infinite understanding seems to imply that you have reached the end of consciousness. But there is no end. On the one hand, there are an infinite amount of things you can understand, but at the same time, it is limited by your genes, neural activity, senses, thought, culture, and time.

To be a human is to be part of reality. What I am claiming is that the part cannot grasp the whole. In order for the part to grasp the whole, the part would have to become the whole, which implies physical death. But then, what understanding could you have if it’s not in relation to some part. Understanding implies a duality between subject and object.

I don’t think omniscience is something that is humanly possible. I don’t think it’s possible for reality to know itself because existence is more fundamental than knowledge.

 

[vibv]

1 minute ago, Osaid said:

No, I'm not using mind or paradigms at all. I'm enlightened. So everything I'm saying is just me describing what I am directly conscious of right now. I am directly conscious of what I speak about. I know that this is different from how awakenings tend to be, though.

Okay I see, it was a bit poorly worded. I do the same, by the way.

You use your mind to speak and form sentences, obviously. And you're also using it to interpret your experience.

Enlightenment is a paradigm.

[Yimpa]

When you become aware that enlightenment and awakenings are ONE, then you’re in for a really fun tyme 

[Osaid]

1 minute ago, vibv said:

Enlightenment is a paradigm.

It's as much of a paradigm as the color red haha.

Well, for you it is a paradigm, because you're not enlightened. So I get it. In the same way that the color red is intellectual for a blind person.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Osaid

[Yimpa]

I am so fucking enlightened that I forgot what enlightenment even means.

[Water by the River]

7 minutes ago, vibv said:

I too had insights into the nature of the Absolute that seemed absolutely final (and were at the time for all intents and purposes). 

Then it was by definition not the Absolute . Maybe you should check how Absolute is defined.

Realizing the Absolute comes with the realization that there CAN be nothing further. Yes, CAN be no further. And why the "CAN be no further" becomes clear with that realization. That is what makes this realization unique and final. It can't be put into concepts.

If what you describe above  turns out later into "something beyond is possible" it was not the Absolute but just a conceptual idea that this Awakening was final. As long as a further or beyond is not fully impossible the Absolute is not realized.

As long as the "CAN be no further" is not realized its not full Enlightenment. But a facet, a fragment of the elephant. An Awakening or smaller/not full Enlightenment. 

The signifier Absolute is used too often without understanding its implications.

Long story short:

 

[Yimpa]

9 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

You can be the cake, the plate, the fork, the hand, the mouth, the digestive system, etc. etc. etc.

So you can be the cake and it the cake.

Cake is LOVE.

The scientist HATES that I am cherry picking data, lolol.

I’ll put that cherry on top of the cake. BECAUSE I LOVE YOU.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Yimpa

[Water by the River]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I am so fucking enlightened that I forgot what enlightenment even means.

If that is truly case you have done well.  And if the"I" in the sentence is also seen through, you can pour tea in the cup like the older guy below. And if you are so inclined, then you can write a filibuster like yours truly. But not before.  But better do the move with the tea. Or talk about one hand clapping. Way cooler than the Filibuster...

 

[vibv]

@Water by the River Nice video. That's what I'm talking about LOL. It's so ass-backwards.

There CAN be nothing beyond I agree. BUT THAT'S NOT THE END. It's impossible to put into words.

Whatever insight you had can be had with more intensity and then some. Or why not just have it AGAIN? It's like sex, really. Don't you like orgasms? You can't tell me you're in a constant state of orgasmic bliss. And if you are, it could be more. That's my point.

It's radical Hedonism with a capital H.

I could have said the exact same things as you a few years ago, I know where you're coming from (believe it or not..).

[Yimpa]

Some of you may be assuming that I have lost my mind and that I’m talking nonsense, but what I can say is that I’m not on any psychedelic.

Maybe this will break a deep assumption you have about how a psychedelic user vs. sober user behaves.

[Water by the River]

25 minutes ago, vibv said:

@Water by the River Whatever insight you had can be had with more intensity and then some. Or why not just have it AGAIN?

Because IT is what I am, always have been, always will be. Never have not been. Absolute. Like Ralston said: IT is not an insight, IT IS you. And all possible reality. 

And all the other insights you can have are about the relative fireworks of manifestation WITHIN True You. That includes for example even reflective self-awareness which some call (self-) consciousness. Sure, Awareness is always there, but if nothing arises no consciousness (of). Just potential for awareness then if something manifests again.

Same holds for all insights. They can be switched off/taken away/forgotten, and True You (the truly Infinite) still is there, like in can't be not here. That is btw the only "safety" there is. Immortal (or better: always here like in can not not be here) but only as truly empty pure nothingness-awareness (with infinite potential for manifestation). 

That is why even clinging or grasping for any insight in the end only is suffering, because it will disappear.

How can one blissfully exist in that where each and every manifestation will disappear? By BEING that what one truly is: Pure Impersonal Awareness/Infinite Potential. And the deaths leading from a separate self illusion to that pure impersonal awareness/suchness/nondual totality have to be truly died/transcended. The false illusion arisings of being separate, or anything specific within the totality. Grasping for more insight/exploration is the opposite direction.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Water by the River

[Water by the River]

Just now, Yimpa said:

Some of you may be assuming that I have lost my mind and that I’m talking nonsense, but what I can say is that I’m not on any psychedelic.

Maybe this will break a deep assumption you have about how a psychedelic user vs. sober user behaves.

I like what you write. Nearly all of it, although I had to get used to it . Your comments about Ketamin-therapy were fascinating.

[vibv]

@Water by the River It's about the CONTENT that's overlooked. You know what this is, great. But you haven't experienced it all, have you? 

Why not aspire to have the greatest experience ever. It has literally no end.

And then there's our planet. Do you care about humanity and our progression? Or does your enlightenment lead to being indifferent?
Wouldn't it be awesome it everybody awoke? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The possibilities are endless in a way no human has found out yet. Isn't that exciting to you?

Quote

That is why even clinging or grasping for any insight in the end only is suffering, because it will disappear.

That's why so-called enlightenment is the end of that suffering. But NOW you can really start to explore. You can't just stop now (at least it would be sad to leave it at that), now it just starts to get interesting.

It's not about something that stays. Everything will pass and it's all absolutely transient. But that doesn't minimize its value, it makes it even MORE beautiful.