Enlightenment Is Actual and not an Illusion ?

[vibv]

GOD is the director and he's got a HUGE PLOTTWIST up its sleeve. Prepare to get mindfucked 

[Razard86]

14 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

We disagree on the definitions of enlightenment. A cat is in actuality but its understanding of its true nature and of existence is limited. Enlightenment means to enlight or to be full of light or consciousness. To be able to see reality as it is and understand that. There is no way we can do that because to be human is to always see it through the lenses of self-deception and bias. You cannot get rid of bias/self-deception. The Devil is always there. You cannot kill him. Otherwise, God couldn’t exist either because The God is the Devil. 

Self-deception is what creates this human experience. This means that as long as you are in form, you can never know what formless is. And I haven’t even scratched the surface.

1. You can know what formless is, stop creating limitations my gosh I swear you guys don't want to awaken and delude yourselves that you aren't stopping yourself.

2. In essence you can kill the devil, you kill the devil by not seeing it as a devil. The devil is seperate identity, that seperation dies in unity. So basically when you stop letting LOGIC/DIVISION run your understanding then the devil dies. The devil is logic, is rationality, what you call God is the irrational, nonsense, insanity. This is why I keep saying to you all if you keep relying on rationality you will NEVER discover God in your life. 

Look at the scene from the Dr. Strange Movie someone showed...does that seem rational to you? If I dropped you in that scene and ran on repeat for an eternity...can you make sense of that? 

That scene can go backwards...forwards, it can pause, it can go upside down, and inside out, it can suck you and spit you out, it can vanish and reappear, it can also show you...it never happened,......does any of that seem rational to you?

This recent post by Leo does a good job.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/can-science-find-mind

Edited September 24, 2023 by Razard86

[Water by the River]

27 minutes ago, vibv said:

But that's not the final awakening. You're just assuming that because you can't conceive of anything that could be beyond that

You dont know that. What I describe in my last post works by a different set of rules than the conceptual assumptions in the quote above and in your post.

Consider practicing towards actually fully nonconceptual and nondual awakened states in daily life. These will ripen then. Then you will see and realize, if Karma has it this way in your future.

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, vibv said:

Because it chooses so. It could awaken right now, but then we wouldn't be here. There's no need to hurry. It's about the process. We love ALL of it, the delusion, the suffering, the awakenings, the red herrings, the doubt, the ecstacy, the misunderstandings, the epiphanies, the disputes and disagreements, all the frustrations and all the joys and pleasures.

We're gonna do it, the process will keep unfolding itself and TOTAL Awakening will happen, that's not just individual but COLLECTIVE. And then we're gonna do it all over again. That's the dance of God. Welcome to Eternity.

Ok, thanks 

[vibv]

19 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Consider practicing towards actually fully nonconceptual and nondual awakened states in daily life. These will ripen then. Then you will see and realize

Been there done that. I'm over it.

[Yimpa]

4 hours ago, vibv said:

It could awaken right now, but then we wouldn't be here.

Oh, you’d be here alright. You’d just transform into an imaginary sponge who lives under the sea 

[Yimpa]

Look, the reason why enlightenment can be a huge trap in this work is because enlightenment  itself easily becomes an attachment!

Do you see the irony here? Enlightenment talks about getting rid of attachments, yet notice how enlightenment masters are so attached to their enlightenment!

Do you get it?!

—

Now, to be fair, you can argue that psychedelic states / out-of-this-world experiences can also easily become an attachment. And to that, I say, you’re right!

But see, now we have to ask the question: What allows enlightenment and psychedelics to even exist in the first place?!

Now we’re getting somewhere….. I think

Edited September 24, 2023 by Yimpa

[vibv]

My path is currently about shedding all the doubt like a snake sheds its skin.

Edited September 24, 2023 by vibv

[Yimpa]

Just now, vibv said:

My path is currently about shedding all the doubt like a snake sheds it’s skin.

Likewise. I got a doubting disorder.. however, GOD is Absolute. That simply means that any doubts about Reality inherently limit Reality in your Mind. There are, of course, various degrees of doubts and limitations.

[Leo Gura]

You enlightenment scoundrels.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Razard86]

Everyone...read this old post by Leo. https://www.actualized.org/insights/strange-loop-cosmology

If you can't use the link here is what he wrote....(there is a video on the link also)

"

Consider the following intriguing possibility:

According to modern cosmology, our universe started as an infinite singularity which spontaneously blew up and started expanding at an accelerating rate — which is continuing today. There has been some speculation that in the future it might start to decelerate and eventually crash in on itself in a Big Crunch, back to where it began. An elegant solution, but our universe currently shows no sign of deceleration so I wouldn’t hold my breath. So let’s assume it just keeps accelerating outwardly forever. What then? How do we end it in an elegant way?

Thermodynamics tells us that ultimately the universe will end in entropic heat death, where all the atoms dissipate their kinetic energy until the entire universe is one energetically uniform, frozen field. This is the universe’s most boring state. Nothing interesting to see or do because everything is so uniform that everywhere is the same. There’s nowhere to go and you don’t have enough of an energy gradient to power anything (no cars, no power plants, no life). Everything is one uniform temperature and eventually even all the atoms decompose into a perfectly uniform soup.

But at precisely this point our perfectly uniform universe also becomes indistinguishable from a singularity! Now, you might think, “But wait a minute, this new singularity is a billion times larger than the old one, due to billions of years of expansion.” Except size, distance, time, and temperature are all relative notions. In a totally uniform universe it is impossible to distinguish here from there, big from small, past from future, or hot from cold, and hence impossible to distinguish the old singularity from the new singularity, making them literally identical!

After all, who is to say there is difference between beginning and end?

And suddenly the whole thing explodes again.

Ta-da! We’ve come full-circle! The perfect strange loop.

But wait, it gets even stranger! If reality is nothing but distinction, could it be possible to eliminate the distinction between something and nothing, reality and unreality? After all, who is to say that the universe is real or has ever even happened?!

This very moment you are sitting here reading this sentence thinking you are inside an actual universe which has happened. But perhaps if you realized that “actual” is a distinction that you are creating, you could also collapse it, thus making it literally impossible to distinguish an “actual” universe from its opposite, a “potential” universe, thus nullifying this very moment, as though it never actually happened, all at the same time as it appears to be happening!

After all, who is to say there is a difference between happening and non-happening?

So, was there an actual Big Bang or not? Adapting, a bit, the famous words of Henry Ford, “Whether you think there was, or think there wasn’t, you’re right!”

How does God create something out of nothing? By imagining a difference between the two.

Ta-da!

So while everyone else is running around taking life seriously, you might be able to realize that life isn’t happening at all. Perhaps existence is only possible as an idea.

Sounds impossible? Who is to say there is a difference between possible and impossible?

Sounds insane? Who is to say there is a difference between sane and insane? 

Here’s an interesting video long these lines, although not quite as radical. Modern cosmology is still not addressing the elephant in the room: the relativity of existence itself."

-By Leo

Contemplate that....maybe that will open you up.....It's all relative...and is pointing at itself. So whatever truth you say...is what you as God are imagining.

[gettoefl]

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You enlightenment scoundrels.

you fiend of endarkenment you ?

[Jehovah increases]

How does God create something out of nothing? By imagining a difference between the two. This is where you have to think about thinking really deeply.

Ta-da!

Sounds impossible? Who is to say there is a difference between possible and impossible? There is no difference from the absolute.

Sounds insane? Who is to say there is a difference between sane and insane? There is no difference from the absolute.

[vibv]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

Likewise. I got a doubting disorder.. however, GOD is Absolute. That simply means that any doubts about Reality inherently limit Reality in your Mind. There are, of course, various degrees of doubts and limitations.

Yep. Believing is reality. If you really believed that you could fly, you probably could (didn't test it  ). But doubt is sneaky. You can fool yourself into thinking you believe something, when in reality you're just pretending.

If you really believe it doesn't feel like a belief, instead you KNOW.

Also, a lot of people seem to get hung up on individualism. You can't awake if the world continues to sleep. You can have awakenings, glimpses and insights, epiphanies and so on, but you forget that everything is you. The final awakening is GODs awakening, not YOUR petty human enlightenment.

How that's gonna happen? Nobody knows, and that's the best part about it. This reality is about God finding out how to awaken. Your enlightenment is still human.

These are not merely concepts, I became directly conscious of this. 

[lostingenosmaze]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You enlightenment scoundrels.

Non-dual raspcillions ?

[vibv]

Another thing I find interesting: It seems to me that you don't advance here. You have your rigid stance and already achieved the highest awakening according to your statements. You're just trying to convince everyone else that either you got it or you don't.

I - and a lot of others of course - on the other hand am growing and changing through this conversation, and thus advancing my understanding further and further. Your evolution keeps advancing a little bit of course, too, because it's impossible to stand absolutely still, even if you try. But you seem to be doing the best you can by closing yourselves up to the possibility that you could be totally wrong. 

[r0ckyreed]

Nobody has yet to answer what the duality between enlightenment and self-deception is.

You can easily have false insights. Because of the nature of infinite consciousness, an insight at lvl 100 will be false in comparison to what you discover at level 1000, same so on as infinitum. The problem never ends. Separation appears real at one level of consciousness but not so on another state, etc. etc.

[vibv]

7 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Nobody has yet to answer what the duality between enlightenment and self-deception is.

You can easily have false insights. Because of the nature of infinite consciousness, an insight at lvl 100 will be false in comparison to what you discover at level 1000, same so on as infinitum. The problem never ends. Separation appears real at one level of consciousness but not so on another state, etc. etc.

Exactly. I know that my understanding can not be final, thank God, that's the most beautiful thing. I know that it is much better than I think. If you're open to it your worldview will be shattered and shattered again and again. God loves a good mindfuck.

You enlightened ones are missing out on all the fun 

Edited September 24, 2023 by vibv

[Osaid]

5 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Reality is infinite and understanding is finite.

Good thing enlightenment is the former and not the latter. 

You are operating from the latter, which is mind, and so you project finitude onto enlightenment.

All of you arguing don't even know what "reality is infinite" actually means. You have a very materialistic notion of it, and you project it onto enlightenment. 

But of course, if you're not enlightened, it just exists as a finite idea for you. So I totally get it! I'm just saying to keep an open mind about it, which is not happening here. That is all.

As I've said many times, it's not an insight or understanding that you integrate, as you do with awakenings. Awakenings can be imagined and chased after forever, yes. Not enlightenment.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Osaid

[Leo Gura]

Understanding is infinite, ending in Omniscience.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Leo Gura