What stage of spiral dynamics matches the most with non - duality/solipsism ?

[De Sade]

I have been really interested in spiral dynamics lately,relating to the Red Stage the most (which is the one i believe God based the world on),and now i'm thinking which one fits better with spirituality.

[Leo Gura]

That's a misuse of SD. That's not what SD models.

Do not try to fit everything into the box of SD or you will get a lot of twisted crap.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[De Sade]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a misuse of SD. That's not what SD models.

Do not try to fit everything into the box of SD or you will get a lot of twisted crap.

Okay,that makes sense,i'm actually right now listening to one of your videos on it,i find it interesting.

[Fluran]

I will bring some crap here

 

subject experiences and evidences indicate that It could be coral/indigo and beyond,
many models say that it's tier 3, and I resonate with it, because I see solipsism a greatest mindfuck and dangerous as hell that by just entering it by little bit gave me little mental destablization, it's been more than a month without psychedelics.

to be responsible of the universe in the societal scale, there has to be a state of consciousness that sees every human beings are in a way programmed mainly by fear of survival, being able to seeing each of human beings and collective living in the dream.
by being less fearful, meaning tasting, observing fear. by confronting existential fear, also seeing through illusion of self/others(which solipsism may help), as well coral life condition(where you are faced with existential crisis, survival challenges, involved in huge conflict, political struggle), where mind has abundance of chaos and uncertainty, and immense fear to embody, and see, realise, adapt, that all fear is an illusion, Fear makes us freeze, fear makes cognitively limited, fear puts us in the dream.

being construct-aware(turquoise) is not enough to experience that everything is a dream, turquoise is still living in a dream, trying to organize it's dream within world of chaos or dreamlessness, turquoise does not also confront all kinds of shadow and trauma or existential crisis directly, while coral is living through hell, shadow, trauma, existential crisis

coral starts navigating this world of dreamlessness, waking up itself is hellish and scary, mind is overwhelmed by teriffying degree of complexity, as well terrifying degree of responsibility that it has to carry, as mind, or I am responsible for everything that is happening, that has happened, and that will happen in future, "nothing is true, is to realize that very foundation of the existence and Civilization is fragile, that nobody can save me from this existential crisis, I am responsible for everything, because, only I exist."

Edited September 23, 2023 by Fluran

[Fluran]

autopoiesis system/holacracy

human cells and organs do not have their own will from our human perspective, they have far less agency, and they are rather a very complex symbiotic organic machine intertwined different part of our body.

solipsism may bring dehumanizing interpretation too,

still, solipsism can bring completely different perspective that gives higher agency than individual sense of agency,
for example, what if you are awake as a "society" and each of human beings are cells, and institution and organizations are organs that help you stay conscious and alive.

 

and who cares if it's all wrong, nothing is true, self-fulfilling prophecy can make it come true and real.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Fluran
dream awareness :0

[Spiritual Warrior]

Stages purple, blue, and green are more spiritual than the rest of the stages in tier one of the spiral imo, take a look at those and see what you resonate with. You probably won't resonate with purple but you may want to get into stage blue or green; stage blue is organized religion based spirituality and green is love based, heart-centered spirituality.

But I don't think true non-duality can be discovered until you reach tier two thinking (yellow and beyond), this is when you start to take your ego out of the equation and start looking at the world from a lens of "what is true?"

If you're serious about nonduality, then study yellow and turquoise and see if you can start to engage in activities that will get you into truth work where you can have some insights into nonduality.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Spiritual Warrior

[ivankiss]

It's the one where you go retarded and start believing in nonsense like spiral dynamics and solipsism.

[De Sade]

4 hours ago, ivankiss said:

It's the one where you go retarded and start believing in nonsense like spiral dynamics and solipsism.

K,if you're reffering to me,SD is only one aspect of reality,there's a lot of things that you could use instead of SD,its just one i thing i started to be interested in. About your solipsism point,i didn't get it. You think Non - Duality is superior to Solipsism ?

[ivankiss]

@De Sade Not referring to you perse, I am generalizing. Also being a bit goofy. 

But yeah, no SD or solipsism in actuality. Non-duality is also just a term. In actuality, there is only pure, infinite consciousness. It's one, yes, but as soon as you call it solipsism, you're hallucinating.

[Fluran]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

@De Sade Not referring to you perse, I am generalizing. Also being a bit goofy. 

But yeah, no SD or solipsism in actuality. Non-duality is also just a term. In actuality, there is only pure, infinite consciousness. It's one, yes, but as soon as you call it solipsism, you're hallucinating.

let me delude and hallucinate myself till next 5meodmt trip

[Carl-Richard]

Non-duality has existed since the dawn of humanity, at the very beginning of Purple if you want to say that.

[Osaid]

What stage matches with a glass of water?

Edited September 23, 2023 by Osaid

[De Sade]

On 23/09/2023 at 4:31 PM, Osaid said:

What stage matches with a glass of water?

All of them ?

[Razard86]

On 9/23/2023 at 0:27 PM, ivankiss said:

@De Sade Not referring to you perse, I am generalizing. Also being a bit goofy. 

But yeah, no SD or solipsism in actuality. Non-duality is also just a term. In actuality, there is only pure, infinite consciousness. It's one, yes, but as soon as you call it solipsism, you're hallucinating.

There is only hallucination. Your disagreement with Absolute Solipsism is hilarious. When you go to sleep at night there is only you. Whatever you dream there is only you. In your dreams....if you are not there to experience it an event does not happen. But you can be TOLD in your dream that event happened. You literally cannot experience anything outside of you since you are absolute. 

This means wherever you are is the absolute. Why? Because space and time does not exist. The only reason you resist this is because you do not love Truth unconditionally. I understand....Absolute Solipsism is very radical.

[vibv]

@Razard86  @ivankiss Solipsism is also a paradigm. But a pretty advanced one. Again, nothing against paradigms  Paradigms are great, we need BETTER paradigms.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, vibv said:

@Razard86  @ivankiss Solipsism is also a paradigm. But a pretty advanced one. Again, nothing against paradigms  Paradigms are great, we need BETTER paradigms.

Absolute Solipsism is actually not a paradigm. Absolute Solipsism =Dream. It's not a paradigm it is that which points to the absence of all paradigms. It tells you and shows you through your direct experience....that it is all a dream. You thinking it is a paradigm IS the paradigm, but Absolute Solipsism isn't a paradigm. It points to the dissolution of ALL PARADIGMS. 

You literally cannot gain Self-Understanding if you deny it. The ego's greatest fear is ABSOLUTE SOLIPSISM it is why you see so much resistance on these forums to it. Everyone can live from a Non-Dual State. That is what I realized. It has nothing to do with genetics. That's bullshit. The only thing that prevents humans from living from that state is fear of intimacy.

Why? Because Absolute Solipsism removes barriers, the deeper you go in accepting it experientially as true, the deeper the individual you dissolves. Go deep enough...and other vanishes completely. Most of you have no clue what that feels like, I do because I live from that state but have discovered recently that I can make it go even deeper. 

[vibv]

@Razard86 I know Absolute Solipsism points to the Truth. I already experienced it multiple times, last time was the deepest where it was totally and undeniably clear, so that I even cried over all the drama etc. I had created. It was so weird, like having a rug pulled out under you. It was like: Wait... that's it!?!??

But I was also watching myself from a completely different vantage point. I was looking from my balcony at some ravens in the trees, and I realized that they are me, only at a much earlier stage in their journey. And then I felt that something else was watching me in the same way (which of course is also me).

That was a huge relief, because I knew and deeply felt - how ironical - I am never alone.

I also had the choice to leave this life behind, but decided that I'm not done here, so I forgot the parts of it that would hinder me from returning and now I'm back 

Edited September 27, 2023 by vibv

[OBEler]

@Razard86 how does it feel can you describe? 

If you have an girlfriend infront of you and interacting with her how Do you feel? 

[Razard86]

5 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Razard86 how does it feel can you describe? 

If you have an girlfriend infront of you and interacting with her how Do you feel? 

I feel like I am with Razard86 in a different body, with a different personality, and different smell etc. It is still me, as everything is me, it just expresses differently. I'll give a close analogy. Let's say you traveled back in time and met a younger version of yourself. It's still you, but it is a different expression of you, much younger. Well equally everybody you meet is equally you in that same scenario, just they express themselves differently.

I have been shown experientially so many ways to experience this feeling of ME and it makes me laugh so much. It's like OF COURSE!!! You have only experienced yourself, so obviously it can only be you!!! There is no difference between any ego!!! Everybody is so you, that anytime you get mad at anyone you are literally just getting mad at yourself!!! I also recently discovered a deeper understanding of karma. 

All attempts at deception, lies, manipulation, hatred, revenge, etc...you carry with you because there is nothing outside of you. So depending on how you choose to respond to every moment to the fear, the pain, determines the quality of your life. Now when I say quality people think material possessions...NO!!!! When I say quality I mean...how peaceful you feel in every moment, and how much love/experience you can feel.

You know how your ego chases a greater experience? That is not an accident!!! Ignore all Spiritual Teachers that tell you to not chase a deeper experience!!! They have no clue what they are talking about!! The more you grow in Self-Love the DEEPER the experience because you are experiencing YOURSELF!!! So of course you should chase deeper experience, you are chasing greater levels of intimacy!!!

If I have sex with a woman, I will feel it on a deeper level because it will be a metaphysical act, instead of just a physical act. Your entire life, everything you do is just a desire to be with yourself. Your avatar is just a vehicle, a machine, to experience yourself. Spirituality is waking up to the fact that you can reprogram the machine, to change the experience of reality. What if I told you your body is like a remote control, that can have its settings changed....permanently to different experiences of reality? Like I said, ignore the Spiritual Teachers that limit you to just a 3-Dimensional reality. The type of reality you can live in....is endless. The only thing that limits you...is your definition of sanity.

[Razard86]

23 minutes ago, vibv said:

@Razard86 I know Absolute Solipsism points to the Truth. I already experienced it multiple times, last time was the deepest where it was totally and undeniably clear, so that I even cried over all the drama etc. I had created. It was so weird, like having a rug pulled out under you. It was like: Wait... that's it!?!??

But I was also watching myself from a completely different vantage point. I was looking from my balcony at some ravens in the trees, and I realized that they are me, only at a much earlier stage in their journey. And then I felt that something else was watching me in the same way (which of course is also me).

That was a huge relief, because I knew and deeply felt - how ironical - I am never alone.

I also had the choice to leave this life behind, but decided that I'm not done here, so I forgot the parts of it that would hinder me from returning and now I'm back 

Absolute Solipsism doesn't point to the Truth it is the truth. It is the invisible holographic screen that is Absolute Mind recognizing itself as the totality. The only reason you don't live from that state as a baseline is Self-Hatred. You fear what you are, so you deny it and go back to the character identity. I understand why you do it, because their is an emotional cost to losing OTHER. But I have realized that cost, is a denial of truth so I forge onward anyway. 

Sure you aren't alone in one sense because you are ONE, but in another sense you are...if you hold onto the character identity because every character...is the same character. I challenge you to LIVE from that state. Most cannot because they have too much self-hatred and love lies more than truth.