About the last Insight post and general critique of Leo

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

The question is does saying Reality is a dream changes anything?

Because it hasn't changed much ime.

That's a good one @Leo Gura 

That's not what a philosopher cares about.  Maybe you're not a philosopher.   Because I could give a shit if it changes anything.  I just want the Truth.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Inliytened1

[vibv]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

That's not what a philosopher cares about.  Maybe you're not a philosopher.   Because I could give a shit if it changes anything.  I just want the Truth.

The Truth changes everything.

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, vibv said:

The Truth changes everything.

Actually it doesn't in terms of how you view reality.  Lucidity is really an illusion because ultimately to immerse yourself you have to forget.   If you are lucid all the fun and realism is taken out of it.  So I'd rather forget. And then remember. 

[Leo Gura]

When we say that Reality Is A Dream, that's a realization you can have. And it will blow your fucking mind when you finally have it.

We're not talking about some theory or philosophy. You will be screaming: "OH MY GOD!!!" like you were shot in the head.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Javfly33]

13 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

   Because I could give a shit if it changes anything.  I just want the Truth.

I guess we have different motivations then.

In the past I was all about truth but then I realise nah I must be honest with myself, arising to a conclusion that feels like truth is nice but at the end of the day what seems that God or Reality cares is about feeling good within itself.

Just look around, everyone is running around chasing a high, a freedom, an intense experience, entertainment, etc ...

It seems for me that the point of Reality is experiencing itself as complete and and satisfactory as possible.

Which it makes sense since people try to seek states of actual unity and completeness (careers goals, family, sex, success). I don't find that many people stopping at a conclusion or "truth" and being satisfied with it.

I suspect that is because a conclusion is never the truth. Saying "Reality is a mind" sometimes doesn't mean you are actually experiencing a unitary mind. I get the sense division and separation is what is being experienced, no matter how much people want to tell themselves is all one.

But I could be wrong. Speaking from personal experience.

 

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When we say that Reality Is A Dream, that's a realization you can have. And it will blow your fucking mind when you finally have it.

We're not talking about some theory or philosophy. You will be screaming: "OH MY GOD!!!" like you were shot in the head.

I've had it. But then what? I don't find myself screaming that all the time. Time passes and it seems reality being mind or not the ego is driven by the same attachments. (Speaking from direct experience, maybe for some of you guys realising that has actually made a difference?¿)

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

But then what?

Then the laundry.

[Someone here]

@Leo Gura

I get the sense that you just hold these as ideas or theories about how reality works. If not .. you must be realizing this is all a dream of yours and you wouldn't spend time trying to convince someone that doesn't even exist that he doesn't even exist! 

.  I don't  want to repeat myself I think I made this point multiple times and no one gave me satisfying answers.. "no matter what psychedelics or luicd dreams show you.. How do you know that it should be applied to reality as a whole and say reality as a whole is a dream?".  Dreams are possible within  reality..how did we jump into saying reality as a whole is a dream?..Notice that reality as a whole can't be a dream because a dream is a limited and relativistic notion. 

[vibv]

@Someone here Everything is completely imaginary. Because we have to use human language the term "dream" comes closest.

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

@Someone here Everything is completely imaginary. 

Would you agree that a dream is imaginary?  Yes?  Me too.

Now can you tell the difference between a dream and the waking world ? No ? Me too.

What does that mean?  It means imaginary =really.  There is no difference between imaginary and not maginary. But you are being biased when you pick one over the other. 

[Osaid]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:26 PM, Javfly33 said:

The question is does saying Reality is a dream changes anything?

Because it hasn't changed much ime.

Lol no, the "dream" perfectly incorporates itself. Never changes. Just your beliefs about it. Very funny when you truly realize this.

Imagine you start up a new Minecraft realm. The immediate and absolute perception is a terrain of blocks, and a rendered distance, and whatever else. You think, "I'm human". You think, "Nothing exists beyond perception". You think, "I'm God creating all of this". You think, "I'm a creature that survives in this weird dimension." You think, "There are other dimensions beyond this one." You think, "This is all just illusion." You think, "I'm just imagining all of this." You think, "I'm just playing a video game." And you can think forever. But all these thoughts revolve and contort themselves around the EXACT same perceptual experience, which is always there. Because experience is not actually changing, what is happening is that you are literally imagining different concepts as if they are more true or real than the previous one, and then using those concepts to point to the exact same direct experience which all your previous concepts have pointed to, but you perceive it as different because you react differently, and it triggers different thought patterns, and the content of the concept is slightly different, and whatever else. 

In a hyperbolic way, it's kind of like when someone smokes a lot of weed and is like "Oh my god dude, have you ever realized that this wall is literally like, a wall? You can't think of a wall, it's always directly experienced! Woahhhh..." It's the age old stereotype of weed smokers stating the "obvious" in a more profound sentiment. The experience of the wall did not change. Their previous beliefs about walls did.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Osaid

[Javfly33]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Then the laundry.

That's my point. Have you guys actually contemplated that's there might more to it than just realizing something and going back to watch TV as nothing happened ?

 

[Javfly33]

@Osaid 

If you were consciousness incarnated in an ant body, I wouldn't say anything.

But being consciousness incarnated in a human body, then if you just think all there is to it is realizing X and calling it a day, well, I'm not saying that is bad, I'm saying is a waste of possibilities.

 

[Osaid]

5 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

But being consciousness incarnated in a human body, then if you just think all there is to it is realizing X and calling it a day, well, I'm not saying that is bad, I'm saying is a waste of possibilities.

I don't know what you think I implied, but it probably wasn't what I was saying. Never said anything about "all there is" and wasting possibilities.

I think it is a common human interpretation to see what I just said as some sort of value system, like, you're not allowed to think or believe things. And so you compare it to living like an ant or whatever.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Osaid

[vibv]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Would you agree that a dream is imaginary?  Yes?  Me too.

Now can you tell the difference between a dream and the waking world ? No ? Me too.

What does that mean?  It means imaginary =really.  There is no difference between imaginary and not maginary. But you are being biased when you pick one over the other. 

In an absolute sense it's imaginary, because it doesn't affect what you are. The Absolute dreams all different kinds of relativity. But the Absolute is ultimately the eternal Truth, dreams are temporary and change all the time. Mistaking the dream for reality (meaning: mistaking yourself for the dream character) leads to the experience of suffering, when in fact your true Self is unbothered by everything that happens in the dream - even when you may have forgotten that you are the dreamer.

[Yimpa]

28 minutes ago, vibv said:

Mistaking the dream for reality (meaning: mistaking yourself for the dream character) leads to the experience of suffering

Not necessarily!

The dream characters can be identical to reality, which is why this goes waaaaay deeper than enlightenment.

Let that shit sink in 

[Yimpa]

While these enlightened nuts keep preaching that the ego is an illusion, you can seriously question that assumption to the bone.

[vibv]

8 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

While these enlightened nuts keep preaching that the ego is an illusion, you can seriously question that assumption to the bone.

You’re right I fell into the old paradigm a bit. Sometimes hard to stay aloof around all this gaslighting  

Suffering is actually a consequence of falsehood.

[Yimpa]

Being wrong is underrated… at least, being absolutely wrong consciously. Which virtually  nobody on this planet is doing 

[vibv]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Being wrong is underrated… at least, being absolutely wrong consciously. Which virtually  nobody on this planet is doing 

I like that point of view 

[Leo Gura]

One of you guys here will corner the market on 100% wrongness