About the last Insight post and general critique of Leo

[Yimpa]

I just became conscious that I’m absolutely Patrick Star.

And that’s fucking intelligent.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

Says who? How is that not just a belief?

We have guys here saying that meditation cannot bring you those states and I, from direct experience, can tell you it's the inverse.  

[vibv]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

We have guys here saying that meditation cannot bring you those states and I, from direct experience, can tell you it's the inverse.  

I believe that it's theoretically possible without psychedelics. But you don't know the inverse. It's just different tools.

It's also very likely that every person walks their own path. Psychedelics are certainly a completely valid one. Also every path has advantages and disadvantages.

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Many claim that consciousness has no degrees. So they certainly believe they are maxed out.

I fully agree.

I would say the inverse to you, but we've already had this debate elsewhere. Let's not do it again here.

Believe what you will.

You're still the man in my book.   But dude, really don't lose sight of your earlier insights.   The problem with you is you questioned everything ad infinitum- to your own destruction.   

Edited September 23, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Javfly33]

It's obvious. Psychedelics are chemicals and they twist something in your brain/consciousness in order for you to tap into those states. The fact that one can not get into those states naturally, is debatable, but I would say yes, is not possible. But in the other hand, by the same "logic", psychedelics are limited precisely because they put your chemistry in a certain state/way. If they wouldn't fix in a certain way your inner chemistry, then you yes, you *could tap into every state unimaginable, but since they have a certain chemistry design, they are limited to that design or certain way they twist your chemistry.

When you have no chemical influence under, the inner chemistry is free and can be tweaked in any way.

Also I do believe is possible to tweak your state of consciousness naturally as a psychedelic does, the only reason monks or yoguis or mystics don't do it is because psychedelic states have a certain anxiety and lack of energetic control that no one would produce if they had at one point the panel of control of their chemistry.

Someone that can produce a high state of consciousness will produce the clarity, blissfulness and intensity, but will not produce any kind of negative effect such as over stimulation, energetic imbalances or twists in consciousness. Something that psychedelic do as a side effect of putting you in mystical states. 

Overall, when you taste explosive blissful and clear states of consciousness "naturally", you will see the psychedelic states as not so good and not so "perfect". Most people haven't touch this unfortunately so they think the psychedelic states are the peak of the peak.

No, no. This is like all your life what most you have driven is a BMW and you think BMW is the best.

Until you try a Maserati or a Ferrari. Then you'll realize how naive you were you thought you've seen it all.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Javfly33

[Yimpa]

Guess what trumps meditation, enlightenment, and psychedelics?

L O V E

[Osaid]

In order to perceive a higher consciousness state, you must be a human. A human who dreams of higher states. A human who dreams of psychedelics. That is a relative human conception. Created by a human who has returned to a lower state, who imagines other states. Who then imagines exploration. Your entire idea of reality is based on human anthropomorphisms.

[Osaid]

On 9/21/2023 at 5:36 PM, Bandman said:

If consciousness can be increased without limit , to go along with our analogy of levels of consciousness, woudn't that mean that level absolute infinity could never be reached? and wouldn't this paradoxically prove a transcendant Godhead that is outside of reality and could never be reached through any state of consciousness because any state of consciousness can always go deeper and never reaches the end? Doesn't this mean you're not God?

That is very well put, and If I were to add my interpretation, I think it naturally highlights the main issue of "trying to transcend the absolute" which will inevitably keep popping up.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Osaid

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, vibv said:

I believe that it's theoretically possible without psychedelics. But you don't know the inverse. It's just different tools.

It's also very likely that every person walks their own path. Psychedelics are certainly a completely valid one. Also every path has advantages and disadvantages.

Well, at least you're open to the possibility.  That's more than I can say for your leader here.  At least you think for yourself. 

[Leo Gura]

@Inliytened1 There is an interesting wrinkle which may help explain some of the clashing we are having, and it is this:

Since reality is a dream and imagination, you might be dreaming that psychedelics do not work in your dream world, and I may be dreaming that meditation does not work in my dream world. And we may not be able to un-dream these dreams any more than we can un-dream gravity.

So be careful assuming that everyone is in the same dream as you.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Greatnestwithin]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Inliytened1 There is an interesting wrinkle which may help explain some of the clashing we are having, and it is this:

Since reality is a dream and imagination, you might be dreaming that psychedelics do not work in your dream world, and I may be dreaming that meditation does not work in my dream world. And we may not be able to un-dream these dreams any more than we can un-dream gravity.

So be careful assuming that everyone is in the same dream as you.

@Leo Gura have got any insights into why you wouldn't be able to un dream Gravity? 

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Inliytened1 There is an interesting wrinkle which may help explain some of the clashing we are having, and is this:

Since reality is a dream and imagination, you might be dreaming that psychedelics do not work in your dream world, and I may be dreaming that meditation does not work in my dream world. And we may not be able to undream these dreams, any more than you can undream gravity.

That is excellent.   Now we are talking.   I just poked you to push you deeper for your students- because you were leading them down a dark path.

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@Leo Gura have got any insights into why you wouldn't be able to un dream Gravity? 

As a human you are locked into a certain kind of dream.

If you could un-dream stuff like gravity you would no longer be human and you would lose human sanity.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

Not to bust balls here or split hairs or to sound like Nahm or anything like that...BUT:.

Reality is NOT dream . Reality is just Reality  . Just like red is just red  . 2=2. 

Have you noticed that everything is itself and not some other thing ??

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Not to bust balls here or split hairs or to sound like Nahm or anything like that...BUT:.

Reality is NOT dream . Reality is just Reality  . Just like red is just red  . 2=2. 

Have you noticed that everything is itself and not some other thing ??

Wrong.   Reality is an absolute dream and you can awaken to that absolute fact about Reality.  Get off of Nahms forum he is lost.

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Reality is an absolute dream.

That's like saying potato is an fact absolute tomato. 

Everything is itself.  Reality is tautology.  You can't define it as something else other than itself.  AGAIN..I'm not trying to be a smart arse here ..just a little thought to contemplate. 

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Get off of Nahms forum he is lost.

Then what are you doing in his forum? ?

[Davino]

 

4 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Of course! Why do they have to be real for you to form a deep connection with them? When you need reality to be a certain way, you’ve already sentenced yourself to experiencing reality in a biased, lower conscious manner.

@Yimpa I'm as illusory or as real as anybody else in the dream. It's my resistance to whatever is going on that creates my own suffering.

 

@vibv Thank you. I really appreciated you took the time to write that message, it felt genuine. I really find both exercises aligned with myself and I'll have them in my toolbox from now on.

 

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

In you reflection you could try to understand why knowing what others are and what you are is important. who wants to know? What does it mean to know something? What is the difference if the others are real or not? Who is this important to? The answer is simple: it is important for the conceptual framework created that you cannot get rid of. let it go, and that's it, reality remains. 

@Breakingthewall  Here are my reflections about your questions. I feel that to know myself more than being important is my conscious right so to speak. To know something is to become conscious about itself and have it fully merged inside your consciousness. Or said in another way, to know something is my consciousness exploring one side of itself and this can have no end.

About conceptual frameworks you sometimes break from inside of them and others you break from the outside. Having said that, I still have not reached clarity about conceptual frameworks. From one side they are very limited but from the other side do we have another option really? being serious here. idk, I honestly don't know. Can we live life 24/7 without any conceptual framework?

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

the moment you think: yes, ok, that's very nice, but then, the others are...that's it, you're back inside. in the conceptual mind. If you want to see what others are, it's easy, meet a person and talk to them, that's what others are, reality flowing. you can only be. think about it, and you're out

Yeah I got that.

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Here is my own direct experience and awakening:

MY consciousness includes all consciousness.
It's so funny because what generated the problem was too much consciousness and the way I solved it was by a shit tone more of consciousness.
It's always me in the other side. It's always me
How tricky I am with myself
I'm the one in the other side and there's nobody on the other side, there is just one side, this is the game.
There is another but is me. There is always another but when I flip it's also me, me in both sides. This is the game.

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

That's like saying potato is an fact absolute tomato. 

Everything is itself.  Reality is tautology.  You can't define it as something else other than itself.  AGAIN..I'm not trying to be a smart arse here ..just a little thought to contemplate. 

Then what are you doing in his forum? ?

You are being too logical and too theoretical.   It's a dream.  Part of philosophy is discovering the nature of reality.  Is it made of matter?  Is it truly made of matter?  Don't you want to know if it is or not?

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Javfly33]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Wrong.   Reality is an absolute dream and you can awaken to that absolute fact about Reality.  Get off of Nahms forum he is lost.

 

The question is does saying Reality is a dream changes anything?

Because it hasn't changed much ime.

59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Inliytened1 There is an interesting wrinkle which may help explain some of the clashing we are having, and is this:

Since reality is a dream and imagination, you might be dreaming that psychedelics do not work in your dream world, and I may be dreaming that meditation does not work in my dream world. And we may not be able to undream these dreams, any more than you can undream gravity.

That's a good one @Leo Gura 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

.  Is made of matter?  Is it truly made of matter?  Don't you want to know if it is or not?

Of course it's not made of matter . But neither is it made of anything else. 

The substance of reality is nothing . Because its just itself.  And you have only one reality.. Therefore you can't define it in terms of anything else because there isn't anything else .

Take a dream ..what is the dream made of ? It's made of nothing but itself.  Same is this waking state right now .