About the last Insight post and general critique of Leo

[SOUL]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is NOT an illusion that Consciousness comes in lower and higher degrees.

I hope you don't take this as me 'correcting' you, it is me just clarifying what you said because it seems like this point can be misunderstood without the clarification.

If consciousness is everything and it is infinite there are no degrees of consciousness, it's always absolute infinite in its genuine nature. Our awareness, which modulates our perception of reality, can wax or wane, which alters the bandwidth of our perception so we can awaken or slumber to reality.

Though, consciousness may appear in layers or degrees to us but it really is just our awareness of it that creates the appearance of them, not consciousness itself. So really, in this context the illusion would be that consciousness is in degrees when in reality its constant state is absolute infinite.

I recognize you realize this but I understand how words can be a stumbling block.

[Razard86]

14 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

It's quite hard to accept that even living a noble life is also Maya, perhaps not so different than a hedonistic life.

Life the noble life for the sake of it.

Not only will you not get rewards, it is not so different from a hedonistic life. Quite profound. 

....Umm secretly there are rewards....it's the greatest reward actually. You gain your self. You have no clue how powerful it is....

Everything the ego does, is based on their desire to have experience and to expand that experience. Basically everyone is secretly chasing Non-Dual experiences they just don't realize this.

For example Sex, creates a non-dual state....it's small but it happens. Drugs same thing. When you focus on mastery on something you enter a flow state...again Non-Dual state. But these are gradations of non-dual experiences, not total, and they are temporary.

But the Spiritual Path gives you access to that state potentially....PERMANENTLY. So there is a reward...the reward is a more intimate experience. Everything is heightened....everything. For example....if a Mystic has sex, he will enjoy sex much more than a non Mystic. If a Mystic rides a motorcycle, he will enjoy it at a greater intensity than you. Etc, etc...

So that is the secret...and I only know it...because I experience it daily. Why the hell you see me on here so much? I want everyone to experience this!!! 

[UnbornTao]

@zurew Do you hold direct consciousness to be a real possibility for you? If not, why contemplate in the first place?

Being convinced of new ideas is not all that we can do in this domain. Direct consciousness is possible, self-validating and true as there is no "separation" between what's true and you. There's no doubt about it. Sounds cute but consider it a possibility. You can grasp what you are.

By the way, I'm not claiming to have achieved it, and don't believe others. This is truly a personal affair. Either one gets it or not.

Study Ramana Maharshi's case for inspiration.

Basically be open, contemplate, have several enlightenments. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, SOUL said:

I recognize you realize this but I understand how words can be a stumbling block.

They can also be Absolute Truth from a high state of consciousness. 

[Bobby_2021]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, my work is irrelevant in the big picture.

I will become more conscious than I was as a human, as I'm looking forward to it.

By work, I mean all the work you did to raise your consciousness to this level.

By the way, when you are a dog, you simply won't have access to any of the fruits of the work you are doing now. You will be back to square 1. 

And basically repeat this for infinity.

You can claim to be more conscious in your upcoming imaginative journey, but consciousness can choose not to do that. It can simply forget alll of this and go back to square 1. You might re imagine yourself as some crack head in LA. It's totally possible.

How can you guarantee that your consciousness will only go upwards?

If you can't address this now, please address this in your future videos.

It's something that troubles me a lot. It would be nice if consciousness only moves forward. But there is no direction and we are imagining stuff for freakin INFINITY. Literally forever and ever and ever. No end to this eternal drama. WTF. 

[gettoefl]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no alternative to dreaming. God is an Infinite Dream. Ocassionally God opens one eye, and then goes right back to dreaming because there's no other game in town.

If God is an ocean, Awakenings are like the highest waves on the surface.

heard of game of thrones, god is game of dreams #god

[gettoefl]

5 hours ago, SOUL said:

I hope you don't take this as me 'correcting' you, it is me just clarifying what you said because it seems like this point can be misunderstood without the clarification.

If consciousness is everything and it is infinite there are no degrees of consciousness, it's always absolute infinite in its genuine nature. Our awareness, which modulates our perception of reality, can wax or wane, which alters the bandwidth of our perception so we can awaken or slumber to reality.

Though, consciousness may appear in layers or degrees to us but it really is just our awareness of it that creates the appearance of them, not consciousness itself. So really, in this context the illusion would be that consciousness is in degrees when in reality its constant state is absolute infinite.

I recognize you realize this but I understand how words can be a stumbling block.

excellent ... just take off the byzantine blindfolds so to see the rest of your self clearly

[StarStruck]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@zurew At this point nothing will help you except maybe 30mgs of 5-MeO-DMT up your ass.

You can't think your way to the Absolute.

Do you recommend doing this when one has a lot of responsibilities? If I had 1 week off I would do it but just doing it in the weekend I'm afraid it would disrupt my life.

Edited September 23, 2023 by StarStruck

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, SOUL said:

I hope you don't take this as me 'correcting' you, it is me just clarifying what you said because it seems like this point can be misunderstood without the clarification.

If consciousness is everything and it is infinite there are no degrees of consciousness, it's always absolute infinite in its genuine nature. Our awareness, which modulates our perception of reality, can wax or wane, which alters the bandwidth of our perception so we can awaken or slumber to reality.

Though, consciousness may appear in layers or degrees to us but it really is just our awareness of it that creates the appearance of them, not consciousness itself. So really, in this context the illusion would be that consciousness is in degrees when in reality its constant state is absolute infinite.

I recognize you realize this but I understand how words can be a stumbling block.

No, Consciousness comes in degrees.

Of course all degrees of Consciousness are equally true. Which is what you're really saying. But you are not equally conscious in a nightly dream as you are in normal life. This is so obvious it's hard to see how you guys dare to deny it.

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

By work, I mean all the work you did to raise your consciousness to this level.

Oh. Well, it's not like you have a choice about that, so why bother worrying about it?

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

By the way, when you are a dog, you simply won't have access to any of the fruits of the work you are doing now. You will be back to square 1.

Right. But also a dog doesn't mind.

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You can claim to be more conscious in your upcoming imaginative journey, but consciousness can choose not to do that. It can simply forget alll of this and go back to square 1. You might re imagine yourself as some crack head in LA. It's totally possible.

That's possible.

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

How can you guarantee that your consciousness will only go upwards?

Just how it feels to me.

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

It's something that troubles me a lot. It would be nice if consciousness only moves forward. But there is no direction and we are imagining stuff for freakin INFINITY. Literally forever and ever and ever. No end to this eternal drama. WTF. 

I just never worry about that sorta thing.

13 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Do you recommend doing this when one has a lot of responsibilities? If I had 1 week off I would do it but just doing it in the weekend I'm afraid it would disrupt my life.

You want at least a few days off.

[vibv]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

How can you guarantee that your consciousness will only go upwards?

By not choosing otherwise. Yes, it’s all deliberate choosing. How can you guarantee that you’ll always choose up? Well, that problem doesn’t exist. You just don’t trust yourself enough yet.

[Princess Arabia]

8 hours ago, Yimpa said:

No way is he a cook. Have you tried this horseshit? I feel like a fucking cow eating this.

 

That's how I eat. Even the pasture-raised eggs. Of course, not all the time, and not always pasture-raised but I try to keep it 80/20 to balance it out. I eat pizza, chicken wings and stuff like that just no red meat, no ff restaurants. I make my own burgers with ground chk and use Ezekiel buns. I even ground my own chicken from chicken breast. No store bought juices except kombucha and Knudsen brand juices. I could keep going but it's just getting your taste buds on track and educating yourself on nutrition. I don't claim to be a health nut and i do eat unhealthy foods at times, it's just not predominant. Your mental health is also affected by eating junk all the time.

[Davino]

@Razard86

I've been watching Leo's video about solipsism since yesterday. I've had one of the biggest existential crisis of my life. Like taking out that one stone that makes the whole castle stand together. I realized solipsism before but not at this deepth and groundedness. I'm happy to finally be coming out of it with a new sense of clarity. It has been a deep purge really. I wanted to even write a post here asking for help but it was just so absurd to think in those lines that I couldn't even push myself to ask for help. Luckily I could still have some anchor with my partner, although that level of paradox was almost breaking my mind it definetely helped me to make peace with myself. Whatever I imagine is reality and I paint myself into existence.

Solipsism is just so radical and threatening to this human dream... I'm really curious to see how this awakening unfolds itself in the next days. It blows my mind how I can always awake deeper. Solipsism has been a brutal Awakening, I'm thankful I was able to surrender and love truth. 

[Arthogaan]

11 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Razard86

I've been watching Leo's video about solipsism since yesterday. I've had one of the biggest existential crisis of my life. Like taking out that one stone that makes the whole castle stand together. I realized solipsism before but not at this deepth and groundedness. I'm happy to finally be coming out of it with a new sense of clarity. It has been a deep purge really. I wanted to even write a post here asking for help but it was just so absurd to think in those lines that I couldn't even push myself to ask for help. Luckily I could still have some anchor with my partner, although that level of paradox was almost breaking my mind it definetely helped me to make peace with myself. Whatever I imagine is reality and I paint myself into existence.

Solipsism is just so radical and threatening to this human dream... I'm really curious to see how this awakening unfolds itself in the next days. It blows my mind how I can always awake deeper. Solipsism has been a brutal Awakening, I'm thankful I was able to surrender and love truth. 

Yeah, it is a challenging step. 

But life gets sooo sooo beautiful after you get accustomed.

Sending a virtual hug, brother 

[Leo Gura]

@Davino Be careful. Your theories and speculations about solipsism are not Awakening.

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Just how it feels to me.

 

I get the same thing, I feel like there is a certain order to things. I believe Consciousness shows us the strange loop, and the lack of order to show us our true nature. But that it uses its infinite intelligence to craft the illusion of evolution and continuity. But hey...this is just me guessing and wishful thinking lol....

[Breakingthewall]

35 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Razard86

I've been watching Leo's video about solipsism since yesterday. I've had one of the biggest existential crisis of my life. Like taking out that one stone that makes the whole castle stand together. I realized solipsism before but not at this deepth and groundedness. I'm happy to finally be coming out of it with a new sense of clarity. It has been a deep purge really. I wanted to even write a post here asking for help but it was just so absurd to think in those lines that I couldn't even push myself to ask for help. Luckily I could still have some anchor with my partner, although that level of paradox was almost breaking my mind it definetely helped me to make peace with myself. Whatever I imagine is reality and I paint myself into existence.

Solipsism is just so radical and threatening to this human dream... I'm really curious to see how this awakening unfolds itself in the next days. It blows my mind how I can always awake deeper. Solipsism has been a brutal Awakening, I'm thankful I was able to surrender and love truth. 

changing your current conceptual structure for another, the solipsism, is completely absurd. This work consists of freeing yourself from conceptual structures and seeing directly. It's very easy to understand. Any concept is toxic on a spiritual level. Its usefulness is at the survival level. and solipsism at the survival level has the same usefulness as psychosis

[vibv]

As has been said numerous times, if solipsism makes you depressed, you didn't grasp it completely. It's actually the most beautiful thing ever.

Edited September 23, 2023 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, vibv said:

As has been said numerous times, if solipsism makes you depressed, you didn't grasp it completely. It's actually the most beautiful thing ever.

You can't understand solipsism whatching a video. Solipsism is only real at an absolute level, and to realize it at an absolute level you must stop your relative mind. to think: the people I see walking down the street have no experience of their own (as it is said in the video) it is a relative thought, therefore it is mixing the absolute with the relative, which is dogma, religion, in short, stupidity

[zurew]

10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Basically be open, contemplate and get several enlightenments. 

Im not saying or claiming its impossible to have enlightenments or awakenings or that one shouldn't go for it - Im just suggesting epistemic humility which people here clearly lack - in other words be open to the possiblity that you can be wrong.

Thats why you can see a lot of people here acting as teachers and all-knowers all the time rather than actually acknowledging the limitations to methods .

A lof of people here are making a lot of assumptions but they try hard not to see those as assumptions even though they have to take them for granted.

You can cut through a lot of bullshit by asking "why" and "how do you know that" on a loop, repeatedly to this people and you will see how even though epistemically similar their approaches are - a lot of their conclusions are different.

A lot of guessing about other peoples developmental level (as if anyone would have some objective standard to go by - which people clearly don't have - they just go by self-referentiality [or in other words by the experience and knowledge that they think to be true])

There is clearly a lot of ego involved in all this which distorts everything very greatly. A lot of emotional attachment to certain methods, huge emotional attachment to the idea that one is more conscious compared to others, huge emotional attachment to 100% confidence in your core claims (people here need the feel of that psychological safetiness, otherwise they open themselves  up to the possibility , where their whole world can fall apart)

 

Notice what people argue about here all the time: "I have a bigger enlightenment dick than you" " I am more conscious than you" "your method is limited compared to mine" - when it comes to Leo , he is making a lot of claims about methods that he is guessing about at best, but he won't acknowledge that he is guessing - he will present it as if it would be absolutely true.

So for instance, he will present the idea of doing meditation to reach his current knowledge as either laughable or structurally limited, even though he is using his limited understanding and logic to reach his conclusion (that meditation is structurally limited) and he hasn't gone through 40-50 years of intense meditation work - so he uses mental masturbation and inductive reasoning to make a definitive claim about something without verifying it himself through experience. He might say "okay, but no one can verify all the methods at that depth and length" - sure, but then don't make definitive claims about it  and again have some epistemic humility and say: "To the best of my knowledge right now here is my take on this x method" but don't die on the hill with such claims.

 

 

 

The time here anyone accepts infinite consciousness as a possibility - is the time, where constant recontextualization opens up, which will undermine your previous thoughts and knowledge about everything as you become more conscious.  Leo will say: "no no  it won't negate it , it will include it" - even in that case you should go with epistemic humility all the time , but there are things that contradicts the claim of " it won't negate it , it will include it".

So for example, if there is a person who says God doesn't exist and then he becomes a person who says God does exist, in that case there is the negation of ' God doesn't exist' and the undermining of your previous thoughts and metaphysics going on rather than an inclusion.  Or a different example could be a person switching a materialist paradigm to 'everything is consciousness' paradigm - that case there is a clear negation of the materialist paradigm going on there - you negate the idea that the materialist metaphysics is true. So those two examples clearly demonstrates not just the fact that greater consciousness will undermine your regular knowledge about things, but greater consciousness can undermine your ideas about the structure and nature of reality and yourself, therefore having a 100% confidence in your own metaphysics according to this - is not a good idea, because  there is a possibility that it will be undermined in the future as you gain more consciousness.

So the conclusion is that if you believe that 'you can always become more and more conscious no matter how conscious you are right now', then you also have to accept the possibility that your deepest ideas about yourself and about reality and about consciousness can be undermined later as you become more conscious compared to your previous self. So the idea of any of you having 100% certainty in your metaphysics is irrational and opens up you to be deluded.

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by zurew

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, zurew said:

then you also have to accept the possibility that your deepest ideas about yourself and about reality and about consciousness can be undermined later as you become more conscious compared to your previous self

Exactly, and agree with everything that you said in your post.  So the only way not to be completely stupid is to have no idea about reality. It's completely obvious. If there are no limits, and the ideas are limited, they are automatically all false. the true tao cannot be said, they know that from long ago...the obvious beginning of spirituality. But no, here in actualized we are much more smart that those old Stupids , right,?

Edited September 23, 2023 by Breakingthewall