About the last Insight post and general critique of Leo

[zurew]

10 minutes ago, vibv said:

@zurew How can you prove that you exist (or something at least)?

Now assume that there could be more things than your mere existence which you can become directly conscious of in the same way.

Probably there are ways to question my own existence, but even if thats not the case - making metaphysical claims will be different than making a claim about my existence, because I have to make more assumptions in order to make that metaphysical claim.

If you guys acknowledge that you guys are participating in the same self verifying epistemology (as any fundamentalist) and making certain assumptions in order to make your metaphysical claims about reality, then Im good , but in that case you guys should have some epistemic humility as well, because by the nature of you making some assumptions - you open up yourself to the possibility of being wrong.

All I care about here is an acknowledgement to the possibility of being wrong.

 

Some assumptions that you take for granted:

1. You are not deluded
2. You are capable of having knowledge about the fundamental nature of yourself and about the fundamental nature of reality
3. That your memory about your awakening is correct and it actually happened
4. That there is such a thing as an awakening and you didn't just imagine or tripped the whole thing
5. That you having the inability to conceive of or to perceive anything outside of your consciousness is a definitive proof that there is no possibility that there is anything outside of your consciousness
6. That reality is made of one fundamental thing rather than multiple different kind of things that cannot be reduced to each other.

 

[Jehovah increases]

59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no alternative to dreaming. God is an Infinite Dream. Ocassionally God opens one eye, and then goes right back to dreaming because there's no other game in town.

If God is an ocean, Awakenings are like the highest waves on the surface.

You already know.

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, zurew said:

If you guys acknowledge that you guys are participating in the same self verifying epistemology (as any fundamentalist) and making certain assumptions in order to make your metaphysical claims about reality, then Im good...

No. That's not what is happening when we speak of Awakening or God.

It's like you're being deliberately dense.

A fundamentalist is not raising his consciousness, he is just parroting dogma.

Quote

All I care about here is an acknowledgement to the possibility of being wrong.

There is no possibility of Awakening being wrong.

How many years will it take you to understand that? If it could be wrong it wouldn't be worth anything and we wouldn't be talking about it.

The problem is that you are trying to maintain modesty and hedge your bets. You cannot do that when it comes to discovery of Absolute Truth. You are too meek to actually put your balls on the chopping block. You don't have the balls to recognize your own sovereignty as a MIND. And that's why you cannot see God. You will see God when you finally realize that your MIND is Sovereign. And not before.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Jehovah increases]

6 minutes ago, Jehovah increases said:

You already know. The Absolute Truth. Took you long enough just kidding.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Jehovah increases

[Princess Arabia]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No. That's not what is happening when we speak of Awakening or God.

It's like you're being deliberately dense.

A fundamentalist is not raising his consciousness, he is just parroting dogma.

There is no possibility of Awakening being wrong.

How many years will it take you to understand that? If it could be wrong it wouldn't be worth anything.

The problem is that you are trying to maintain modesty and hedge your bets. You cannot do that when it comes to discovery of Absolute Truth. You are too meek to actually put your balls on the chopping block. You don't have the balls to recognize your own sovereignty as a MIND. And that's why you cannot see God. You will see God when you finally realize that your MIND is Sovereign. And not before.

This hits deep.

[Francis777]

that's why if you think any teacher is being unnecessarily modest, you should be suspicious. No one that's had a true awakening will doubt themselves, in the face of everything. That's what it means to awaken. there would be no point in awakening if it didn't guarantee truth.

 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

there would be no point in awakening if it didn't guarantee truth.

And yet, self-deception is still possible.

[Jehovah increases]

God when you finally realize that your MIND is Sovereign forever and it has only ever been you dreaming. There is and only has been one infitite mind but it can dream whatever it wants. Fun is it not I am you are me we are one forever.

[Francis777]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And yet, self-deception is still possible.

my point wasn't that you cant deceive yourself, it was that it is possible to reach levels of consciousness where you know for sure that you haven't. Of course that level increases each time you awaken deeper

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

my point wasn't that you cant deceive yourself, it was that it is possible to reach levels of consciousness where you know for sure that you haven't. Of course that level increases each time you awaken deeper

All good

[zurew]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No. That's not what is happening when we speak of Awakening or God.

Yes it is - from an epistemic standpoint it sure is. the same exact self-referentiality is taking place (therefore you are making an innate assumption that you take for granted).

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A fundamentalist is not raising his consciousness, he is just parroting dogma.

Not all, and from their pov they can claim that they are more conscious compared to you just the same way as you claim that you are the most conscious on earth.

...

problem of relying on self-referentiality.

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's like you're being deliberately dense.

If asking questions that you have no answer for is being dense - then sure Im dense.

You try to dodge a very straightforward acknowledgment, because its more emotionally appealing to everyone and to you if you can claim something with 100% confidence.

Sure you can claim it to be true with 100% confidence, but you having 100% confidence in it won't make it automatically true. A lot of people claim things with 100% confidence and they are wrong all the time.

I already listed a set of things that you take for granted and you have no way of getting around them, you just assume them to be true and then somehow claim that what you claim is 100% true without any doubt whatsoever.

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How many years will it take you to understand that? If it could be wrong it wouldn't be worth anything.

And who cares whether something worth anything or not? Don't we aim for absolute truth here? If the absolute truth is some valueless depressing thing ,then we should be able to stomach that.

"there would be no point in awakening if it didn't guarantee truth."  "If it could be wrong it wouldn't be worth anything." - and there lies you guys biggest bias and fear - you want it so badly to be 100% guaranteedly true ,because the minute you acknowledge that there is any slight possible doubt about it, the whole thing and the value of your work collapses (the very same argument is used here that you use against atheists and other fundamentalists Leo).

[Leo Gura]

@zurew At this point nothing will help you except maybe 30mgs of 5-MeO-DMT up your ass.

You can't think your way to the Absolute.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[vibv]

@zurew when I remember and interpret my experience I could sure be wrong. But it doesn’t really matter. Because I know that when I know I KNOW.

Doubt is a device to prevent realizing GOD at all times. But there are moments where doubt is absolutely impossible - or are they maybe even created when doubt is dropped completely.

You see this current experience is ingeniously crafted. There are so many things to deter you from the truth - namely doubt, insanity, death, etc.

If you wanna see past that you have to be bold.. and just take the leap. But that requires tremendous courage. Because it is not at all guaranteed.. all your apprehensions may come true.

But at some point you gotta do it anyway.

Edited September 22, 2023 by vibv

[Leo Gura]

Since you are dreaming reality, if you insist on doubting everything like a parrot then you will end up in a dream of endless doubt. That's what you, as God, will manifest for yourself unwittingly. So be careful. You become what you fill your mind with.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Francis777 said:

*does not mean that you are no longer still dreaming everything up

Yeah I guess he was trying to say finding out it is a dream is in one sense the cessation of dreaming because you know its a dream. Like watching a movie and realizing it is a movie for the first time, sure the movie continues...but it no longer fools you.

So you are both right, but he is just pointing that being aware that it is an illusion...no longer makes it an illusion. Think about it....if a lie cannot fool you, then you know the TRUTH.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

in one sense the cessation of dreaming because you know its a dream.

I would say it the other way around:

Awakening is to fall in love with the dream by recognizing that Reality Is A Dream. This is the greatest gift from God. Nobody asleep appreciates how beautiful dreaming is, because they do not recongize what they are doing as dreaming. They confuse it for material reality. Which is very lame.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[UnlovingGod]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I would say it the other way around:

Awakening is to fall in love with the dream by recognizing that Reality Is A Dream. This is the greatest gift from God. Nobody asleep appreciates how beautiful dreaming is, because they do not recongize what they are doing as dreaming. They confuse it for material reality. Which is very lame.

I once read, when you fall in love you get a sneak peak of the other person's soul. When you awaken just a tiny bit, you get a sneak peak into yourself. That's why awakening can feel nasty, because you recognize yourself and all your Bullshit, I myself am full of shit still haha. And that's why it feels also sickening to fall in love with someone else.

Edited September 23, 2023 by UnlovingGod

[Yimpa]

On 9/21/2023 at 0:04 PM, Bandman said:

Look, basically every scientist and philosopher would think Leo's a cook, and we are the only people that take him seriously

No way is he a cook. Have you tried this horseshit? I feel like a fucking cow eating this.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Yimpa

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

No way is he a cook. Have you tried this horseshit? I feel like a fucking cow eating this.

 

   Awakening the inner Bill Burr?

[Razard86]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I would say it the other way around:

Awakening is to fall in love with the dream by recognizing that Reality Is A Dream. This is the greatest gift from God. Nobody alseep appreciates how beauitful dreaming is. People are too stupid to appreciate illusion.

Nice move.....and I'll say I think there is some appreciation...just not to the same depth...but hey...they'll get it eventually when their dream reaches the climax...or maybe they'll get it through a NDE.

Remember this post you made? https://www.actualized.org/insights/understanding-karma

I tested it out...and let's say....it was ABSOLUTELY TRUE. So TRUE...it was magical. 

https://www.unity.org/bible-interpretations/matthew-628-30-and-why-are-you-anxious-about-clothing-consider-lilies-field

You said at the end of your Solipsism video that "anything you do is ultimately pointless because it is all being done for you."

Let's just say I did some retarded shit on purpose to test this out and let's say I was shown this was true. The most dangerous thing is to tell someone this though lol....ohh the crazy stuff people would do!!!

24 minutes ago, UnlovingGod said:

I once read, when you fall in love you get a sneak peak of the other person's soul. When you awaken just a tiny bit, you get a sneak peak into yourself. That's why awakening can feel nasty, because you recognize yourself and all your Bullshit, I myself am full of shit still haha. And that's why it feels also sickening to fall in love with someone else.

That's just your karma. You have your individual karma, which is the karma of the character you are currently living as, then you have your collective karma which is the karma of this entire dream. (When I say karma of the dream I mean all the history you have consumed about human history etc.)

If you deep shadow work you get to see how ridiculously sick and twisted your mind is....and that you are capable of some dark and twisted shit!!! It is only because of your personal history and choices...that you didn't turn out some other way. Gives you great empathy not just for victims, but the perpetrators as well.