Read this old blog post by Leo

[Razard86]

https://www.actualized.org/insights/an-atheists-personal-experiences-of-god

The part I want you to read more than once is this "What’s not being understood here is that the nature of reality is subjective and mind-constructed, and therefore “physical” reality can change if you just change the way you use your mind. This possibility is not taken seriously because Stage Blue and Orange underestimates reality. These stages assume that reality is a fixed, static thing, limited thing — which turns out to be a very mistaken metaphysical assumption."

Many of you have had psychedelic states from taking substances and come back to baseline and assume that this is "normal" and how things just are. But how do you know you aren't constructing this and that is why it IS? One of the things Leo mentioned about the ego is that it likes to maintain homeostasis. 

What does he mean by that? Your current static experienced 3-D reality is maintained by your ego's homeostasis or inherent structure. Think of your ego as a living thing trying to maintain its form. That form is what you call your GRIP ON REALITY. What happens to many of you on these trips is you are not able to turn those states into a NATURAL STATE and you have a constructed belief that it is impossible. 

But what if it was possible? Have you tried? Have you honestly tried? How radical would your lived reality be if you did? Something to think about....

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Razard86

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

What happens to many of you on these trips is you are not able to turn those states into a NATURAL STATE and you have a constructed belief that it is impossible. 

Yeah, but if you turn in in your natural state, It will also happen that if you take a psychedelic on this already open base state, your openness will increase even more. More and more until reaching the level of a drooling mystic who is not human. How far do you want/do you dare to go?

[VeganAwake]

It's not that physical objects physically change, it's that the illusion of self is no longer there to fabricate a story or place an illusory layer of meaning, purpose, and value upon the physical object itself.

Reality is already itself, its already complete regardless of the names and beliefs placed on them.

Awakening isn't this complex wishy-washy thing. It can be very subtle and simultaneously completely unmistakable.

It's not a gaining or adding of concepts and beliefs.

It's the falling away of concepts and beliefs to see clearly what already is!

❤️ 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's the falling away of concepts and beliefs to see clearly what already is!

Yeah, but do you see what already is in its unfathomable depth? 

[Princess Arabia]

6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's not a gaining or adding of concepts and beliefs.

It's the falling away of concepts and beliefs to see clearly what already is

I value your insights so this is not a contradiction. What is? Things are always changing, except for the one Source. Source/God just IS. Most on this path already knows that. Yes, things don't change but how we perceive them do, so they may appear differently. Do you see it as everything already exist and it is up to us to chose what part of the already existing existence that we want to experience by changing our perceptions, beliefs and assumptions.

The fluidity of the appearance is what's causing the change as nothing is concrete, so once we've recognized that Reality just IS, but we have the choice to change our belief structure to fit into the paradigm we want to operate from to create our world, why do we have to strip away all beliefs and concepts if we've recognized them as just that and we can change them at any time we want in order to create/experience something new and also the part of existence we want to experience.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

why do we have to strip away all beliefs and concepts i

Because they are just concepts and we want to see directly. Concepts are mental handles that the self needs to constantly create a model of what reality is. This by definition is wrong, because reality is not the model. the model is always limited, the clarity is limitless

[Razard86]

6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's not that physical objects physically change, it's that the illusion of self is no longer there to fabricate a story or place an illusory layer of meaning, purpose, and value upon the physical object itself.

Reality is already itself, its already complete regardless of the names and beliefs placed on them.

Awakening isn't this complex wishy-washy thing. It can be very subtle and simultaneously completely unmistakable.

It's not a gaining or adding of concepts and beliefs.

It's the falling away of concepts and beliefs to see clearly what already is!

❤️ 

Which is a concept....notice...you attempt to not construct a concept....and then you push forward a concept...so which is it? Also...why do you waste your time repeating the same thing? Might as well just copy and paste that same response....on every thread...it would save you time. 

Also...if what you said were true....then why are you still here? On this forum....what is it that you seek?

[Razard86]

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Because they are just concepts and we want to see directly. Concepts are mental handles that the self needs to constantly create a model of what reality is. This by definition is wrong, because reality is not the model. the model is always limited, the clarity is limitless

Who is "we"....and do you really believe the Self needs to constantly create a model? Or rather...the self that has tricked itself into thinking its human needs the model?

[SOUL]

@Princess Arabia  The idea of 'having to strip away all beliefs and concepts' is just more belief and concept. Just like your signature says, it's the idea we have to do something to be. So many layers of doing, beliefs and concepts rolled into the notion that it is a preferred state, a higher state and 'truer' state than just being present as it is.

Then people go around teaching and preaching it as some absolute truth that if you don't adhere to, you aren't as awake as they are. Our mind will constantly generate concepts and will always rely on beliefs to understand experience, even the mystical direct experience that some see as a special exception to the typical kind. These also evolve along the way of our mystical journey.

It's the ego creating something to 'do' that separates present moment awareness from some imagined other conscious experience. Even if some suggest it's free from belief and concept, it still is just another limiting belief and concept that imagines a separation between two different states of consciousness. It's one that sounds 'higher' though, so it appeals to the spiritual ego.

We can just be present in awareness and let the mind do what it will do, simply observe and cease to contend with its machinations. There is nothing we have to 'do' to abide in awareness, for being presence. Sure, eventually the mind will reflect back to us what we give it through present experience, so why give it more belief and concepts, no matter how 'high' they may appear.

The 'falling away' of limiting belief and concept is a decent description of what manifests in our mind as we reside in being presence. There is just nothing to 'do' for the falling away to happen, it's like trying to get a pool of water to become still through some sort of activity. All that does is create more waves and ripples in the pool, there is nothing to do for being.

It just is and we abide in awareness of being presence.

I'm certain someone will come along to tell me how I'm wrong and not awake but…haha.

[Razard86]

21 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Princess Arabia  The idea of 'having to strip away all beliefs and concepts' is just more belief and concept. Just like your signature says, it's the idea we have to do something to be. So many layers of doing, beliefs and concepts rolled into the notion that it is a preferred state, a higher state and 'truer' state than just being present as it is.

Then people go around teaching and preaching it as some absolute truth that if you don't adhere to, you aren't as awake as they are. Our mind will constantly generate concepts and will always rely on beliefs to understand experience, even the mystical direct experience that some see as a special exception to the typical kind. These also evolve along the way of our mystical journey.

It's the ego creating something to 'do' that separates present moment awareness from some imagined other conscious experience. Even if some suggest it's free from belief and concept, it still is just another limiting belief and concept that imagines a separation between two different states of consciousness. It's one that sounds 'higher' though, so it appeals to the spiritual ego.

We can just be present in awareness and let the mind do what it will do, simply observe and cease to contend with its machinations. There is nothing we have to 'do' to abide in awareness, for being presence. Sure, eventually the mind will reflect back to us what we give it through present experience, so why give it more belief and concepts, no matter how 'high' they may appear.

The 'falling away' of limiting belief and concept is a decent description of what manifests in our mind as we reside in being presence. There is just nothing to 'do' for the falling away to happen, it's like trying to get a pool of water to become still through some sort of activity. All that does is create more waves and ripples in the pool, there is nothing to do for being.

It just is and we abide in awareness of being presence.

I'm certain someone will come along to tell me how I'm wrong and not awake but…haha.

^^^^Naw you aren't wrong...but umm....if infinite intelligence followed your very limited perspective....consider the consequences.....ever think of that. I notice a lot of people never think about that. Reality is constructing infinite perspectives....actualized.org is just one itty bitty tiny perspective among a ridiculous infinity of perspectives. 

So while what you say is true....umm where is the fun? The adventure? Let's say reality were to listen to you and adhere to what you just posted....what do you think would happen?

 

[SOUL]

@Razard86 People confuse the difference between our mind's perception of reality, how malleable this perception is and conflate it to what actual reality that is.

Yes, we only experience reality through our perception of it, how it appears to us, but reality doesn't change because our perception of it does and us changing our perception of it doesn't make the manifest existence conform to our perception of it.

Reality doesn't change to what is perceived, it just is what it is regardless of how one perceives what it is.

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

^^^^Naw you aren't wrong...but umm....if infinite intelligence followed your very limited perspective....consider the consequences.....ever think of that. I notice a lot of people never think about that. Reality is constructing infinite perspectives....actualized.org is just one itty bitty tiny perspective among a ridiculous infinity of perspectives. 

So while what you say is true....umm where is the fun? The adventure? Let's say reality were to listen to you and adhere to what you just posted....what do you think would happen?

 

I've been sitting here for a half hr pondering @SOUL's comment, yours and the highlighted comment up top from Leo and I just couldn't connect the dots. They all sound "right" but something was off to what Soul said to in relation to what I was saying even though I totally get his/her view point and even agreed. But what I got from that was, we need not even believe anything and just be. Doing is different from using the mind constructively into constructing our Reality the way we wish to construct it.

As you said, constructing Infinite perspectives, which I say creates Infinite Realities while still being present. I guess its the way the words are being used.

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Razard86 People confuse the difference between our mind's perception of reality, how malleable this perception is and conflate it to what actual reality that is.

Yes, we only experience reality through our perception of it, how it appears to us, but reality doesn't change because our perception of it does and us changing our perception of it doesn't make the manifest existence conform to our perception of it.

Reality doesn't change to what is perceived, it just is what it is regardless of how one perceives what it is.

This is where I get confused. Reality just is. But what is Reality. Isnt it the same as Infinity/God/Truth/Source etc. Since it is infinite, doesn't that contain all that IS?. Are we seeing All THAT IS or only our perception of ALL THAT IS, which would be only a part the part that were conscious)aware of. In order to change that wouldn't we just change our beliefs to then see a manifested version of the infinite.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[SOUL]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

^^^^Naw you aren't wrong...but umm....if infinite intelligence followed your very limited perspective....consider the consequences.....ever think of that. I notice a lot of people never think about that. Reality is constructing infinite perspectives....actualized.org is just one itty bitty tiny perspective among a ridiculous infinity of perspectives. 

So while what you say is true....umm where is the fun? The adventure? Let's say reality were to listen to you and adhere to what you just posted....what do you think would happen?

 

It's probably that you begrudgingly say I'm not wrong but since you love your pet theories so much, you don't want to let them go, right? Spiritual ego is so attached to the beliefs and concepts of its identity, it can't imagine a reality without them, even though they are constantly changing as we gain more experience....but it is the 'truth' as far as the mind trusts as true.

What you call 'limited' I call 'simple'. It is so simple, it is the simplest thing one can do....not doing. It's definitely not easy even though it's simple, the mind will do everything in its ability to get us to contend with it. It wants us to empower it, to endorse it, to believe it to be the truth! It wants us to do anything but to just sit in stillness, observing. Abiding in awareness of being presence is its 'ego death'.

I do consider the consequences, there would be less arguing and fighting about beliefs and concepts, no actual wars in the world about ideology. There would be less contention and strife because someone doesn't have the same exact perception as you. The infinite variation of perception wouldn't disappear, just the misery produced from encountering the variety would dissipate.

Liberation, which is the cessation of self suffering, would be realized for more people than the current climate of contention. We would celebrate the infinite variation of perspectives instead of rushing around telling people 'naw' because theirs differs from ours. I'm not saying you are wrong either, I'm just explaining the consequences you asked me to consider.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by SOUL

[SOUL]

32 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

But what I got from that was, we need not even believe anything and just be.

This wasn't quite my point and I didn't really say that, this would just be a variation of the 'strip all beliefs and concepts' idea I was providing an alternative to. The mind creates belief and concept all by itself even as we grow in our spiritual journey, the ego trumpets them in our conscious mind for us to empower through agreement with them.

We don't need to do anything for the mind to do it, that is its natural way of behaving. I merely suggested we don't need to agree with it in our awareness because endorsing it, agreeing with it, is the 'doing' of our awareness. Yes, it isn't lost on me that I am agreeing with the concept of language to communicate to you this conceptual frame of just 'being' but such is life. Hah

 

[SOUL]

52 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is where I get confused. Reality just is. But what is Reality. Isnt it the same as Infinity/God/Truth/Source etc. Since it is infinite, doesn't that contain all that IS?. Are we seeing All THAT IS or only our perception of ALL THAT IS, which would be only a part the part that were conscious)aware of. In order to change that wouldn't we just change our beliefs to then see a manifested version of the infinite.

To be fair, this is where language often feels insufficient for describing reality, but I will give it a go anyway. So please pardon me if I add more confusion.

We have our perception and it is our 'all that is' yet it is not the infinite 'all that is'. Simultaneously, we can experience the fullness of well being, fulfillment or 'perfect' of the infinite 'all that is' no matter what our specific perception is at any moment even if it isn't the infinite perception.

Now it's going to get even more abstract, so again, pardon me.

'What is' verifies itself by being 'what is' and this is how the perception's conceptual framework of the mind's belief in 'truth' comes about. It gets its paradigm of understanding from experience and trusts that it is 'true'...the mind 'believes' its perception is what is...whether infinite or not.

We can expand our conscious awareness to increase our perception of what is but that isn't necessary for well being. We can use all sorts of methods of physical investigation, contemplation, meditation, medication and celebration to verify our perception is 'true' yet that isn't required for well being.

All the 'truth seeking' and 'reality changing' of our conscious lives spiritual activity is a 'doing' that is not needed for and will be transcended by simply being...well.

I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone, but there it is.

 

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

This wasn't quite my point and I didn't really say that, this would just be a variation of the 'strip all beliefs and concepts' idea I was providing an alternative to. The mind creates belief and concept all by itself even as we grow in our spiritual journey, the ego trumpets them in our conscious mind for us to empower through agreement with them.

We don't need to do anything for the mind to do it, that is its natural way of behaving. I merely suggested we don't need to agree with it in our awareness because endorsing it, agreeing with it, is the 'doing' of our awareness. Yes, it isn't lost on me that I am agreeing with the concept of language to communicate to you this conceptual frame of just 'being' but such is life. Hah

 

Ok, I understand you now, thank you. Thats my understanding too.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, SOUL said:

To be fair, this is where language often feels insufficient for describing reality, but I will give it a go anyway. So please pardon me if I add more confusion.

We have our perception and it is our 'all that is' yet it is not the infinite 'all that is'. Simultaneously, we can experience the fullness of well being, fulfillment or 'perfect' of the infinite 'all that is' no matter what our specific perception is at any moment even if it isn't the infinite perception.

Now it's going to get even more abstract, so again, pardon me.

'What is' verifies itself by being 'what is' and this is how the perception's conceptual framework of the mind's belief in 'truth' comes about. It gets its paradigm of understanding from experience and trusts that it is 'true'...the mind 'believes' its perception is what is...whether infinite or not.

We can expand our conscious awareness to increase our perception of what is but that isn't necessary for well being. We can use all sorts of methods of physical investigation, contemplation, meditation, medication and celebration to verify our perception is 'true' yet that isn't required for well being.

All the 'truth seeking' and 'reality changing' of our conscious lives spiritual activity is a 'doing' that is not needed for and will be transcended by simply being...well.

I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone, but there it is.

 

You don't have to worry about getting abstract with me because I'm here, aren't I lol, on Leo's blog instead of Jimmy swaggert's, is that his name, the evangelist. He's probably dead anyway. But back to this, I get what you're saying. It's not new to me and I'm delving deeper into this topic so it's quite familiar. I'm just trying to understand more of what I already understand and trying to go deeper to get a bigger picture. You guys disagree on stuff a lot even though the base might be of the same contents, that's why I try to get the info and think it through for myself to make it make sense to me and also through my own experience and intelligence. 

I will re-read your response and contemplate on it. Thank you for being so kind to share this with me and for explaining it the best you know how under the circumstances. I do appreciate it.

Edit: It became so clear the second time around and i totally understood it. We need not do anything to be fulfilled and fulfillment doesn't depend on or perception all we need do is just BE. Our perception increases with expanded awareness but its not needed to experience the full capacity of our true nature as Reality.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Yimpa]

12 hours ago, Razard86 said:

What does he mean by that? 

Let’s ask Baby Leo

1:09 “Hey! I’m talking to you.”

Edited September 22, 2023 by Yimpa

[SOUL]

@Princess Arabia  To the edit part in your last post yea but allow me to unpack that a little more if I can.

We realize our well being in just being it, so not dependent on the conditions of life. Our well being, our fulfillment is not dependent on what we know or don't know, do or not do, there is no sense of lacking so the desire that causes self suffering is satiated so to speak.

The love and joy in anything we do happen to be doing is not derived from it which can be fickle and temporal, we are being that presence of fulfillment so bring the love and joy to the activity whatever that happens to be.

Now let's see if I can bring it full circle and touch on the theme of the trippy wayback Leo video just posted here on mastery. He says that to master something we need to love the process, otherwise we won't do it. There is an emphasis on the love of the process itself.

I offer that it's not trying to squeeze the love out of the things in life we are doing, it is bringing the love to it that is pouring out of the fulfillment through us and onto everything we do even if we don't do anything at all. This is the mastery of being.

Edited September 22, 2023 by SOUL