Lower IQ is associated with high music consumption

[Rigel]

9 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Yes active listening is very difficult like it is hard to stay happy while being tortured. Even my analogy is not perfect I wanted to emphasize that active listening is hard to do.

Yes it is very hard. My point was that the line between playing and listening is razor thin and that’s what you realize after thousands of hours doing both with full awareness. All of that was in response to your comment about Beethoven being different cause he’s creating, not just listening. Well he’s not. The dude fabricated his work inside his mind in a way that is spooky-shly close to active listening. Thus placing your premise into question again(it’s false by the way).

But even more important than that, who the heck gives a shit about your IQ? IQ is like the leftover bits of dried crumb in the bag when you are done with the loaf of intelligence. It doesn’t measure actual intelligence. 

[Epikur]

49 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Your title is misleading. The musicians in the study actually had higher IQs on average than the non-musicians (119.49 IQ ± 7.84 vs. 116.69 IQ ± 7.85). The study specifically looks at "sensation seeking" in relationship to music.

This is how they define it:

So, assuming that their questionnaire accurately reflects how they define sensation seeking above, it would be more accurate to say that extroverted people who like to go to loud concerts while probably getting drunk and meeting a lot of people is what has been shown to correlate with lower IQ. It's not "high music consumption" that correlates with lower IQ.

Based on my personal experience, I do feel that if I've played guitar intensely for a while, sometimes I'll be unable to think clearly for 5-10 minutes afterwards. But the way I generally engage with music is still vastly different from what has been described above, as well as in the questionnaire itself. I wouldn't describe my relationship to music as "music has offered me magnificent experiences; I want to feel the music in my whole body; I want to listen to music that evokes feelings in me". I would describe it as connecting deeply with something beautiful or interesting. And according to the study, this would make sense, as I'm an extreme introvert.

So yeah, next time, maybe actually read the study you're referencing and you'll maybe end up not looking like somebody with a low IQ  

The title is perfect as it is form my low IQ point of view. Well as a low IQ guy I thought the study is about people who consume music not people who produce music but that is just me.
 

[Epikur]

50 minutes ago, Rigel said:

Yes it is very hard. My point was that the line between playing and listening is razor thin and that’s what you realize after thousands of hours doing both with full awareness. All of that was in response to your comment about Beethoven being different cause he’s creating, not just listening. Well he’s not. The dude fabricated his work inside his mind in a way that is spooky-shly close to active listening. Thus placing your premise into question again(it’s false by the way).

But even more important than that, who the heck gives a shit about your IQ? IQ is like the leftover bits of dried crumb in the bag when you are done with the loaf of intelligence. It doesn’t measure actual intelligence. 

Well from my low IQ point of view Beethoven created music period.

I think many people give a shit about IQ. That is why this thread is so active.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Epikur said:

The title is perfect as it is form my low IQ point of view. Well as a low IQ guy I thought the study is about people who consume music not people who produce music but that is just me.

Well, again, if you had read the study, you would know that they studied both musicians and non-musicians.

[Optimized Life]

Low IQ is associated with making this post. 

[UnbornTao]

On 20/9/2023 at 11:50 AM, Buck Edwards said:

I guess Beethoven was low IQ then.

They pull this research out of their ass. Seriously. 

 

He couldn't listen to it though. I'm just pointing that out.

Edited September 21, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

@Epikur In order to not be a hypocrite about being scientifically accurate, let me clarify that while I implied earlier that the musicians having higher IQ disproves the claim you made in your title, that is not necessarily the case. While an average musician probably listens to more music than an average non-musician, the IQ difference could come from the act of creating music rather than listening to it. So the IQ difference could theoretically be consistent with the suggestion that people who listen to a lot of music lower their IQ. But in reality, I think that is unlikely.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Buck Edwards]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Your title is misleading. The musicians in the study actually had higher IQs on average than the non-musicians (119.49 IQ ± 7.84 vs. 116.69 IQ ± 7.85). The study specifically looks at "sensation seeking" in relationship to music.

This is how they define it:

So, assuming that their questionnaire accurately reflects how they define sensation seeking above, it would be more accurate to say that extroverted people who like to go to loud concerts while probably getting drunk and meeting a lot of people is what has been shown to correlate with lower IQ. It's not "high music consumption" that correlates with lower IQ.

Based on my personal experience, I do feel that if I've played guitar intensely for a while, sometimes I'll be unable to think clearly for 5-10 minutes afterwards. But the way I generally engage with music is still vastly different from what has been described above, as well as in the questionnaire itself. I wouldn't describe my relationship to music as "music has offered me magnificent experiences; I want to feel the music in my whole body; I want to listen to music that evokes feelings in me". I would describe it as connecting deeply with something beautiful or interesting. And according to the study, this would make sense, as I'm an extreme introvert.

So yeah, next time, maybe actually read the study you're referencing and you'll maybe end up not looking like somebody with a low IQ  

This. 

[Buck Edwards]

Music has been known to heal parts of the brain. My brain is more creative when I'm listening to music. It activates different areas of the brain. This is dependent on the type of music you listen to. Traditional music has a better effect. 

I don't think music can lower IQ or low IQ people listen to music more often. 

Listening to music is a sign of creativity. Creativity is a form of intelligence. 

 

[Buck Edwards]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

He couldn't listen to it though. just pointing rhat out.

 

But he must have felt it. 

[Epikur]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Epikur In order to not be a hypocrite about being scientifically accurate, let me clarify that while I implied earlier that the musicians having higher IQ disproves the claim you made in your title, that is not necessarily the case. While an average musician probably listens to more music than an average non-musician, the IQ difference could come from the act of creating music rather than listening to it. So the IQ difference could theoretically be consistent with the suggestion that people who listen to a lot of music lower their IQ. But in reality, I think that is unlikely.

It is nice that you try to be honest.

[Butters]

They probably scored lower because they were listening to music while taking the iq test. 

[ivankiss]

mE LiKE mUsiC Me sO DuMB

[Butters]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

mE LiKE mUsiC Me sO DuMB

Dumb da da da da dumb da da da dumb da da dumb 

[Schizophonia]

epidemiological studies, without much value

[Epikur]

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

epidemiological studies, without much value

Listen to music half of the day and check how your brain performs

[gettoefl]

tend to agree with the following, music stunts your quality of life when drip fed constantly and mindlessly

[martins name]

Damn, I must be retarded?

[vibv]

I spend way less time listening to music than in the past. In the past it was like stimulating background noise.

But when I listen to music nowadays I do it much more intently. It’s an activity that requires my whole attention.

Also being a musician changed the way I perceive music a lot.

In my school days I remember training listening to complex music and learning to appreciate it. It was like a meditation and mental exercise. After I listened to music on psychedelics for the first time I wanted to be able to have that experience sober, too.

It worked and changed my relationship to music permanently. In my opinion this, if anything, increased my intelligence.

[itsadistraction]

I thought we don't care about IQ at actualized.org?