Have things not really gotten better since the 80s or 90s?

[Girzo]

5 hours ago, OBEler said:

Then you can deploy this upgrate without energy on 1 billion humanoid robots. 

There is nothing like an upgrade without energy. You want to count toilets as an energy expenditure but take secure global internet network and its upkeep for granted. The software updates of AI systems take not only work of the programmers but also a lot of computing power, which is again materials and energy. The robots also need energy and anything we know now is way less efficient than humans' thinking. I am also pretty sure that a breakthrough in that regards is not going to happen in this century.

What timeframes are you thinking about, because the topic has started as about the past a few decades back?

5 hours ago, OBEler said:

And as I say it doesnt make good sense to compare humanoid robots with humans on just calorie consumption. Thats very narrow point of view

It's not narrow, it's humanistic. I value the existence of complex life on Earth, and human life in particular. You value what?

Edited September 26, 2023 by Girzo

[OBEler]

@Girzo@Girzo sorry  you still dont see it:

We talk here about big big amounts and you think that a handful of software developer and some server on this planet to control 1.000.000.000 robots needs to be counted for anything? 

Yes I count toilets, light and oil costs for warm room as energy costs because ask yourself how many toilets, how many lamps, how many heat devices do you need for  1.000.000.000 humans for work? Thats a lot and Robots dont need that. And they can work day and night in the cold 24 hours, they even dont need to drive to home or to work (saves also a lot of energy) because they just are stationated in the factory. 

Your values dont matter when it comes to simple facts. 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by OBEler

[Girzo]

@OBEler Simple facts are I am talking reality and you are presenting some wet techno utopia dream.

I have voiced my opinion in the beginning and laid out an argument. You have done nothing to substantiate your claims that we as a humanity can build such robots or AI anytime soon, and also didn't provide a reason why would we even need them. What's the use for AI humanoid robots if people can operate industrial machines right now without any super-robots?

2 hours ago, OBEler said:

And they can work day and night in the cold 24 hours, they even dont need to drive to home or to work (saves also a lot of energy) because they just are stationated in the factory. 

You know nothing about machines and how much resources their upkeep takes. You know that every little engine needs oil, every hydraulic part needs oil and is prone to leaks. They have optimal work temperature ranges. Every moving part wears. Precise, human movement-simulating parts wear even faster. Such robots would be a maintenance shit show. 70% of your robots would be working full-time to sustain their own population. Pointless robot-centered economy.

Like, these are teenager's dreams while our world is burning. It seems you would like to burn some more oil to create pointless robots.

[OBEler]

Did you read any of my posts? You did not Adress  my arguments in my last Post. 

I mainly concentrated to debunk your statements. And I also tried to explain to you that humanoid robots will be needed. Because they dont need Training, just Software Updates, because they are less demanding than humans (Infrastrukturen for humans are bigger), because they will be one day for sure do physical Tasks better than humans like Computer do better task already. 

Just go into an Amazon warehouse I think that will open your mind a bit. 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by OBEler

[Girzo]

11 hours ago, OBEler said:

And I also tried to explain to you that humanoid robots will be needed. Because they dont need Training, just Software Updates, because they are less demanding than humans (Infrastrukturen for humans are bigger)

This is not a valid logical reason for creating such robots unless your only value in life is efficiency for efficiency’s sake. And that’s assuming your premise is not completely WRONG, which it is.

I have already been done with this conversation five posts ago, consider that my last post in this topic unless someone new chimes in.

[OBEler]

@Girzo dude.. My or your value should not be considered for anything when it comes to predict the future. The future doesnt care about your values

I make my arguments not on how I feel or how it fits to my values but on pure logic. Thats the reason you cannot understand because you just let things be realistic if it fits to your hunanistic perspective. Thats very limited 

 Everyone who runs a business will have a look at efficiency, so if human robots are more efficient for special Tasks than humans, thats a good reason to use them. If you say that humans will be out of job and that would be not moral, I reminder you thats normal in a technical revolution and happened through history all the time. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by OBEler

[Girzo]

@OBEler Take a break and read some wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_utopianism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_Realism

[OBEler]

@Girzo I dont believe in technological utopianismus. And claiming that humanoid robots will be here like cars has nothing to do with that. 

Please put values and Moral away and just look what could be realisticly happen in the future. If you like it or not 

You are still trying preventing to adress my arguments. 

[OBEler]

@Girzo this humanoid robot from tesla has potential to work everywhere 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler He can sort your porn collection

[UnbornTao]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@OBEler He can sort your porn collection

I doubt it. Give it a decade or two.  

Edited September 28, 2023 by UnbornTao

[OBEler]

@UnbornTao did you watch the video? 

It is right now possible. Just replace the boxes with porn DVDs

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, OBEler said:

@UnbornTao did you watch the video? 

It is right now possible. Just replace the boxes with porn DVDs

VHS bro. VHS.

[Razard86]

On 9/26/2023 at 1:07 PM, OBEler said:

@Girzo@Girzo sorry  you still dont see it:

We talk here about big big amounts and you think that a handful of software developer and some server on this planet to control 1.000.000.000 robots needs to be counted for anything? 

Yes I count toilets, light and oil costs for warm room as energy costs because ask yourself how many toilets, how many lamps, how many heat devices do you need for  1.000.000.000 humans for work? Thats a lot and Robots dont need that. And they can work day and night in the cold 24 hours, they even dont need to drive to home or to work (saves also a lot of energy) because they just are stationated in the factory. 

Your values dont matter when it comes to simple facts. 

 

You are wasting your time arguing with him. Most of his arguments are moot points. A.I. exists because it is more cost efficient, as such it will replace majority of human labor. Until the rich start caring more about human lives, cost efficiency is going to take a front seat over worker's need for a job. If you read his arguments against your point of view they are so full of bias you are wasting your time. I mean his starting point in one of his comments reeked of hatred of A.I. that told you all you needed to know. 

He will get left behind as anyone who tries to take a stance against technology does. That gamble...doesn't pay off. 

[LoneWonderer]

Hey Leo so do you believe that UBI will become a real thing for most people soon?

[OBEler]

@Razard86 I just wish I could break his mind with logic so that he can see what we see. But his defense Mechanism is to blame me for being an Anti Humanist, because predicting the future must always be pro humans and Anti technology, right?  I cannot be right, because of that for him. Who thinks in such a biased way? 

I just look at China, the biggest country in the World. Will China transform into an Anti technology country? Because using humanoid robots would be not morally good? @Girzo can you at least think about that? 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlueOak]

In the last 20 years things have contracted. Regressed and become more about war, violence, competition, standardization, organization, and suppression. 

It's in everything from the politics to the color schemes. The music and movies, to the internet use and privacy. It's been like expansion and contraction. Only the contraction here could well end our political and social systems as we know them. Though for the first time in my life over the last 10-15 years or so, I think it may start to pull back from contraction to expansion again. Please be aware I usually predict these things well in advance of them happening, so it won't be tomorrow or likely even in these next immediate years.

The entire mood of the 80's and 90's was much more positive in the west. Impactful technology was changing our experience of life at an exponential rate. AI may do that but I am not convinced yet. If I could put that in a bottle and let you experience it for a day, you'd see what I mean. It was an entirely different collective emotion and attitude.

Edited September 30, 2023 by BlueOak

[UnbornTao]

14 hours ago, OBEler said:

@UnbornTao did you watch the video? 

It is right now possible. Just replace the boxes with porn DVDs

I implied my porn collection is too big for it to be manageable at all, I was joking. Barely got any porn.

[mojsterr]

On 25/09/2023 at 3:03 AM, Girzo said:

You guys do you. I prefer sex with a girlfriend, which as an experience probably hasn't changed much since the 80s.

Oh yeah, I know her, she's less hairy now.

[Girzo]

@OBEler My argument was you know shit about industry, global economy engineering and what real-world efficiency means. Then on top of that, it also doesn’t make sense from the perspectice what most humans value in life.

Betting on developing efficent AI and humanoid robots combo capable of performing at the human level in the next few decades is a ludicrous bet.

You are detached, I am grounded. You completely dismiss the complexity of what you are proposing and the cost of that complexity. Cost we have no way of paying as humanity right now or it makes no sense to pay it.

And before you say „history has proven tech sceptics wrong many times before”… You are not proposing trains faster than 60mph, you are proposing flying cars by 2015.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Girzo