Russell Brand is being accused of rape

[zurew]

54 minutes ago, Tanz said:

If that is true, why did it take so long for the authorities of charging him with such a crime?
Didn't they have intercourse a good number of times, to the extent most people would consider them in a relationship?

None of these are relevant questions , because none of these are mutually exclusive with him raping a women.

1) Just because it takes x amount times to charge someone from that doesn't logically follows that he is innocent.

2) Just because someone is in a relationship with someone else, that doesn't mean that the partner cannot be raped by the other partner.

 

All of these discussions would be much more productive if you guys would stick to the facts of a given specific issue rather than speak about generalities that might or might not be applicable to this specific case.

[Danioover9000]

@Tanz

5 hours ago, Tanz said:

I just spent the second time watching the "trailer"  I find it odd and suspicious that they made the video about brand so cinematic and used music to dramatize it.  They spent a lot of time and money doing such a video on heresy and the statues of limitations limits Brand being found guilty. Normally the courts holds that against the accuser because memories get convoluted thru time.  Kevin Spacey got found innocent for that very reason.  A British network that he used to work with mentioned there were never complaints from any employees on Brand. 

I find it interesting the people that dont like him want him to be guilty we certainly live in a polarized world

   This is what all documentaries do mate. All documentaries are biased and preferential, designed towards a certain narrative and story telling of one side. All documentaries do that, and interviews do that, they all have a certain bias and story to align.

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

None of these are relevant questions ,

To be fair it is a legitimate question.

Justice delayed is justice denied. Why wouldn't you want your own justice delayed? 

Was she traumatized by the rape and it destroyed her life that it took so long for her to report it?

Was she denied justice when she did raise a voice? 

Was she blackmailed by the defendant? 

Did she blackmail him for using this as a weapon? 

Generally, the longer it takes the harder it is to prove the crime, which is already hard enough to prove, and it is only giving him more wiggle room to get out of it.

So all these are very relevant questions. The fact that it took so long to report the case is a relevant fact of the case that requires investigation. It's a fact nevertheless.

And it's not being presented as a case to deny the allegations. It's totally possible to have raped someone a long ago. 

[Bobby_2021]

There is an even more sinister side to this. Almost everyone at the top of the macro dominance hierarchy is guilty of some crime and the evidence exists. Either it could be sexual crimes or murder or bribes or something of that sort. The enemies use these as leverage points to strangle them as and when required. There is no one whose name is clean.

Poltics is not a black and white game of bad vs good, and courts being there to deliver justice who have been hurt. Russel changing his position to being against the mainstream could be a factor in what bought these crimes to light. 

Two things can be true at the same time. Do not go against the narrative if you have a shady past. If you have a shady past, do not be too loud and go against the narrative. 

[Tanz]

2 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Because the documentary was released literally two weeks ago?

 

Leo mentioned the reported victim came into a clinic right after the event so that must have been 10 years ago.  
 

 

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

 This is what all documentaries do mate. All documentaries are biased and preferential, designed towards a certain narrative and story telling of one side. All documentaries do that, and interviews do that, they all have a certain bias and story to align

There's not innocent to proven guilty?

Brand was only approached a few days before releasing the documentary so he wasnt even allowed to defend himself before the released it. It looks like very sleezy reporting.  Documentaries normally come out after someone is convicted... they even waited for Epstein to be convicted to do one on him and his crime was FAR FAR worst.  Heck even R Kelly was given a chance to speak during the whole process.  

I know you guys don't like him for all the "mis-information" but you are letting your personal feelings get in the way of your judgement.  

We cant live in a society where people can get canceled just by someone's word.  

Youtube turned off monetization on his videos and YET they are still running ads which means they are collecting the money and not giving it to him.  If they were being authentic to their policies they would turn off ads completely but they are putting money before their so called principles.  

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Although of course I think there should be degrees of rape. Rape in a relationship is very different than raping a stranger in a dark alley at knife-point.

I personally known women that have been raped by their husbands so I'm well aware that is possible.  I have been together with the same woman for more than 12 years and there are occasions we mentally abuse each other in a spur of anger, she could have easily said I verbally abused her and painted a picture of victimhood and I could do the same only  the lens of social norms I would be laughed at.  
I have been used for my body, my money from women but I really don't harbor any ill-will towards them because I have grown past the "trauma" 
Many people don't have that kind of maturity and come up with all sorts of stories in their heads.

Certainly it is under the realm of possibility that he did force himself on her but its equally possible she thought she was going to spend the rest of her life with him and have his babies, and then he took that away from her. Women give themselves to you differently when they truly love you and the bastard probably did that a lot to many women.  He's certainly a sleez bag, at least back then but rapist doesn't fit the psychological profile.  I slept with the same woman for 12 years, its not even fun when she's not in the mood but she's doing it just to shut me up.    


 

[Consept]

I grew up in the UK and I did kinda like Brand for his comedy and his edgy persona in the late 90s and 2000s , I just wanted to share a few points that I think might give a bit more context to the discussion 

1. Around the time that the allegations took place Brand was hugely celebrated in the mainstream for being a highly sexual guy. This is because we had 'lad culture', best way I can describe it to Americans is a kinda frat-boy culture. In which glamour modelling was a big thing (women with their tits out in newspapers and magazines). Scandalous sex stories where women well known men had had sex with sold their stories, binge drinking etc. Brand was given the title of 'shagger of the year' by the Sun newspaper (itself deep into lad culture) for multiple years. Point being here that Brands roguish sexual behavior was completely celebrated in the mainstream, in fact the only time he was admonished that i can remember was when he called an actor (waiter from fawlty towers) to harass him about the fact that he fucked his grand daughter. So I could see how no one pulled him up on this. 

2. A few years ago a well known, older celebrity Cliff Richard had his house raided because someone made sexual allegations against him. His name was dragged through the media and he was up to be the next 'rape guy'. However the allegations were completely unfounded and Cliff Richard fought and won his case in court, suing everyone involved. This meant that newspapers and media going forward could not print anything unsubstantiated. Meaning in Brands case the Times and Channel 4 would not publicise anything without having significant proof because if they did Brand could sue the shit out of them. This also speaks to why it took them so long to bring the required evidence together. It's also important to note that if this wasn't true Brand could definitely sue and definitely win significant damages, however it doesn't seem like he is going to sue which would lead us to believe that he knows there's truth in it. 

3. It should also be noted that, apparently Brands behavior was an open secret in the comedy circuit in the UK and many comedians have come out to say that his behavior has at least been highly inappropriate. Katherine Ryan a well know comedian, recently said she repeatedly accused Brand of being a sexual predator from the time she worked on a show with him a few years ago. However she never named him, she spoke about what happened but left his name out. This could be because Brand had taken out what's known as a super injunction, meaning that if any media named Brand in regard to whatever he was trying to protect that media outlet would face legal ramifications. I think the point of super injunctions is to protect those that maybe haven't done anything illegal but something that the media might want to report for example on affair. Its kinda like an nda. 

4. Rape charges don't really stick in the UK, its something like only 1% of charges end up in prosecution. This is because a lot of the time it's one person's word against another, evidence is very hard to gather. In Brands case the power dynamic was huge, remember that he was loved by the mainstream for his sexual behavior so you can see how women might be reluctant to come forward, especially as we've also seen Brand was not afraid to take legal measures to protect himself. A 16 year old or even an average person is not going to be able to go up against someone like Brand legally. 

5. A lot of people are saying his name shouldn't be put out there if it hasn't gone to court etc but he is of course free to sue if he is aggrieved. Also as i said 99% of rape cases don't make it to trial, but that doesn't mean 99% of women are lying. So if someone is in the public eye and there is evidence against them of this nature you could argue that it is in the public interest for people to know and again if he's not happy he can sue and clear his name. 

6. Final overall point, I don't think Brand is/was a predator in the same way Tate or Epstein were, I think it was a terrible cocktail of fame, lad culture, celebrating bad behavior, narcissism, addiction and probably other things that led to the situation. It's highly likely that he pushed what he could get away with, with women and its not surprising if that crossed over into assault. 

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

So all these are very relevant questions.

You can give an answer to those questions and you still won't know whether he actually did rape or not.

 

I agree it can be useful if you want to do further investigation, but none of those questions are deal breakers alone or combined.

The implication that I got from Tanz wasn't that he was asking for information to collect the facts,  it was that he was asking those questions as a rhetorical move to demonstrate that it is unlikely that Russel committed the rape.

[LSD-Rumi]

@Consept Nice analysis, thanks!

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Although of course I think there should be degrees of rape. Rape in a relationship is very different than raping a stranger in a dark alley at knife-point.

But legally it's even possible to rape your own wife. Which, BTW, Trump is accused of

So, are you saying that if your wife doesn't want sex and you force yourself on her and she's crying for you to stop, and if she reports it, it should be punished to a lesser degree as opposed to a knife-wielding rape of a stranger? I guess it's the same thing as 1st and 2nd degree murder and manslaughter. The victim is dead regardless, but how they died matters in a court of law, hence the type of punishment. Rape is rape regardless; but if it's your wife or gf the punishment by law should vary and not be as severe? 

Or that raping your wife or gf is only a crime because that's what the legal system says. 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

So, are you saying that if your wife doesn't want sex and you force yourself on her and she's crying for you to stop, and if she reports it, it should be punished to a lesser degree as opposed to a knife-wielding rape of a stranger?

Definitely. It's not nearly as bad. Couples can make each others upset or cry and even be forceful.

I'm not justifying it. I'm just saying reasonable minds can see degrees of rape like degrees of murder.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Definitely. It's not nearly as bad.

That's a bias and is so based on the victim's perception, not for you to say. IMO, if there is to be any degrees, it's how it was done, not by whom. And that's just playing devil's advocate.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

That's a bias and is so based on the victim's perception, not for you to say.

Just ask any woman, would you rather be raped by your husband or by a stranger in a dark alley, and you will see the clear difference.

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Just ask any woman, would you rather be raped by your husband or by a stranger in a dark alley, and you will see the clear difference.

I am a woman, why don't you just ask me, and why are you stressing knife-wielding and dark alleys. You're trying to justify your pointless point.

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Seed said:

This is subjective. 

Being raped by a stranger in an alley is a huge betrayal. Being raped by someone you trust and love is a double betrayal and and I believe, far more psycholoically damaging. 

 

I wouldn't really consider being raped by a stranger a betrayal because you usually feel betrayed because you first trusted. However, I do see your point in the latter compared to the former even though, it depends on the relationship between the two of the latter prior to the rape. 

[Leo Gura]

@Princess Arabia So for you all rape is identical?

Consider the case of degrees of murder. You might say: But if you ask the murder victim what difference does it make to him which degree of murder it was? It's all the same. And yet, we still distinguish degrees of murder.

For example, I think rape with a weapon should count as a higher degree of rape. And you could make a distinction between sober vs intoxicated rape. Violent vs non-violent rape. And so on.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Seed said:

Is drugging a girl and raping her worse than raping her sober or the other way round then?

It is in fact legally recognized that drugging and raping is much worse. Danny Masterson was just convicted of that and he was given a harsher sentence due to the fact he drugged girls.

The rapes of Danny Masterson seem way worse than what Russell Brand did. Which is why I brought up this idea of degrees.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Princess Arabia So for you all rape is identical?

Consider the case of degrees of murder. You might say: But if you ask the murder victim what difference does it make to him which degree of murder it was? It's all the same. And yet, we still distinguishs degrees of murder.

For example, I think rape with a weapon should count as a higher degree of rape. And you could make a distinction between sober vs intoxicated rape. And so on.

No, there could be different degrees of rape, as you said, but my point is it shouldn't matter by whom the rape was done but how it was done, if we're arguing the degrees aspect. If a stranger stuck his thing in my mouth for 2second and ran away or even stuck it inside me for 2secs, VS my husband ramming his thing in my asshole for 2 hrs while being tied to the bed and my ass bled for hrs on end, which one do you think would be more traumatizing. They were both rape.

[Yimpa]

Brand is a caricature example of what happens when you mask your human baggage with spirituality. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

No, there could be different degrees of rape, as you said, but my point is it shouldn't matter by whom the rape was done but how it was done, if we're arguing the degrees aspect. If a stranger stuck his thing in my mouth for 2second and ran away or even stuck it inside me for 2secs, VS my husband ramming his thing in my asshole for 2 hrs while being tied to the bed and my ass bled for hrs on end, which one do you think would be more traumatizing. They were both rape.

That's a good point.

I always assumed it would be more traumatizing if rape was from a stranger, but I'm not a girl so I don't know.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Brand is a caricature example of what happens when you mask your human baggage with spirituality. 

He didn't mask it, he legit matured and developed a lot.

He wasn't into spirituality back during his raping years. He was a heroin addict.

Considering how bad he used to be, I'd say he made a good recovery. Assuming he stopped the raping.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Leo Gura