My Work On Myself Is Under Direct Threat. My Psychologist Hates Spirituality

[LRyan]

 

Why is the field of Psychology so threatened by spirituality???

I am in shock.  I could use some input.  I feel very threatened after my session with my Psychologist. I told him I have been reading things that are helping me and he blew a gasket.  He went off the deep end, turned red, started defending his profession, told me that spirituality has no use in helping PTSD and doesn't do anything at all and is a waste of my time.  He said that I am trying to undo everything that he is trying to accomplish.  He basically said that if I want to sabotage myself then all I had to do is stop treatment for PTSD and read my books.  He told me to let him talk and then later I can ask questions so he could go off on a rant about how much success he has had in treating PTSD.

He immediately went on the defensive once I mentioned that I felt some of the things I have been reading and doing have helped me in my day to day life.  He flew off the handle and went to the white board and drew a graph of how PTSD from childhood progresses and on and on about how he is an expert in his field and basically how dare I question anything.  I tried to say why can my spirituality not co exist with what he believes in and he said it's only because of his treatment that I was able to pick up a book and read again and that by digging into spirituality I am just mixing myself up and it will hurt me and I will not get better.  He said he has been trying to treat two other patients that believe in spirituality but he has had them for 7 years and cannot get anywhere with them because they do not want to focus on anything bad.  He said that is crazy.  When I questioned him about what he knows about spirituality he really got upset.  He admitted he knows nothing of it.  Says he is too busy making people better being and expert therapist to read anything.

I remained 100% conscious for almost the whole time but he slowly got more words in than me and "took control" of the session, apparently convincing me that he is right and I am wrong and if I don't listen to him I will not get better.

Thanks to anyone who can comment.  I feel my very core was just assaulted by this man....

Then, I hate to say it and this is why I am feeling so devastated.....I did think, what if he is right and I do need to treat the PTSD his way?

I'm very confused but thanks for this forum because maybe someone can shed some light on how I can stay focused on what really resonates with me and what I feel has made me feel like I could live happily without suffering....

Edited March 27, 2017 by LRyan

[Martin123]

@LRyan hahahahha yeah psychogist tend to be nut cases.

My friend has some severe social issues and axirty and other things. His mum is a psychogist, whilst clearly being a narcisist... and im like... How does that never click for you sheeple!! ??

Just take a chillpill and maybe find a different psychologist? It sounds like he is quite emotionally attached to his profession and that cannot be beneficial in such a intimate delicate situation as a therapist-client relanionship.

If you still find him beneficial after this though then by all means keep him. However it can be a lesson to reown your power and to find ability to heal from within. Because you can. Obvi. 

Good luck!

[Toby]

So basically he is telling you what to do and what not and walking over you. How could this be empowering? I would drop going to this person asap. What kind of background does he have in PTSD? Does he just do "talking" or does he have any expertise in bodywork?

Actually there are approaches that also have a spiritual background or at least don't deny it that specialize in PTSD: Somatic Experiencing (Peter Levine). I highly recommend this work (at least if it is used in the "right" context).
This would be the best book of this work (but there are also different audiobooks on specific subjects that are great): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1556439431/

[electroBeam]

I had deep social anxiety in high school. Saw 4 different psychologists. No progress was made.

Went and talked to a buddhist teacher at my university one day about it. Social Anxiety has decayed to almost nothing, and I'm even able to do pickup.

What a coincidence. 

The thing with psychologists is that their studies only work for a certain amount of people(worked for 60% of people who tried it) and they very wrongly assume that the reason why it didn't work 100% is because of experimental error/randomness. This isn't the case, its actually because everyone is different. 

Their theories about how the brain works is severely limited and ironically bias. There are some cases where its useful to use a psychologist, but there are just as many cases for seeing a buddhist teacher/Christian priest/etc about the same issues. 

[Martin123]

@Toby @John Flores In my case I got actually quite lucky. Stumbled uppon a great loving therapist who was very weird in a beautiful way. Loved every single session :).

[Leo Gura]

@LRyan Spirituality is not so fragile that one therapist's methods can break it. You can probably do his methods and still maintain all your spiritual practices. That is, if you were really hard-pressed.

But the obvious answer here is: Why continue seeing someone who isn't aligned with your values?

The biggest benefits from therapy come when the therapist and client are a team. They both have to trust each other, share similar values, and want to work together. If the relationship is adversarial, you might as well stay home and watch TV.

Sounds like this guy doesn't really understand proper therapeutic method. Regardless of how good his results might be with treating PTSD. He also needs to understand that his methods are not appropriate for everyone. If a professional life coach behaved in this manner, he would be disqualified from coaching. It's very amateur behavior to push anything on the client. The client must set the agenda in order for there to be buy-in.

[Dodo]

I don't have PTSD, but for me the best help is found on youtube and books, the amazing boom of spirituality. Internet allows for easy sharing, and the message is spreading like wildfire! Psychologists have this problem usually - they think they know it all. This is Ego basically, because they are very "knowledgeable". 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Dodoster

[Bodhi123]

@LRyan The field of Psychology is not fundamentally opposed to spirituality.

Look into psychologists such as Abraham Maslow, Carl Jung, Ken Wilber, and Stanislav Grof. They all acknowledge spirituality and the transcendent potential  of all humans. You could also look into the school of psychology known as Transpersonal Psychology.

Don't let your progress and spirituality be undermined by one individual.

You got this bro. 

[Gopackgo]

This is an issue that is close to my heart because I love Psychology, and I think the science as a whole is ignoring the best treatment options because they want to be a "science". 

There is no argument that the human brain is not subjective, so I don't understand why psychology continues to try and force people into categories. I can tell you from my experience, actually watching my mind and seeing the thought processes was much more effective than seeing a counselor.

Consider what is happening when you talk to a counselor: 1) you have behaviors that are adversely affecting your life. 2) you try to explain the behaviors to the psychologist (so you interpret your feelings through your subjective belief system and mind into words to tell them). 3) the Psychologist listens to your words (runs them through his belief system and his professional belief system.) 4) He categorizes your malady, and translates his concepts into words that he thinks you will be able to use (subjectively) 5) you listen to the words (after they run through your filter system again), and attempt to  implement them into your life. Because the counselor is not in your head, there are incongruencies which you then rationalize in order to reconcile(which by the way IS the main cause of illusion in the first place.

2 minds, 2 egos, and many different interpretations so you might learn who you are. After all of that, and then you have to continually go back to readjust strategies and adapt treatment to you. 

Compare this to meditation:

1) you watch your thoughts and focus concentration. 2) you naturally find your physiological triggers for anxiety, and learn how to interrupt the cycle. 3) you begin to see the maladaptive thought processes and naturally reconcile them with reality.

1 mind(temporarily a problem), 1 ego (temporarily a problem)

This is without even going into all the spiritual stuff. The last thing you need in your life is another self in between you and happiness. You are trying to get closer to reality, not one step removed. I am not saying that therapists don't work, but I am saying that this therapist seems to be projecting his own ego onto you. Psychologists should be embracing all of this. In fact, higher consciousness is the only thing they should be studying. Instead, they want to continue to group people into large groups and diagnose them with a broad brush. Do not let anyone make you feel bad about yourself because you have the courage to confront your demons. It is the bravest thing a person can do, and I hope you find a good replacement if you feel that is right.

[LRyan]

14 hours ago, Martin123 said:

Sorry I messed up how to reply to each of you!!  Still learning this too..

I'm glad that you found someone who you clicked with, that's so important and makes it much easier.

 

 

14 hours ago, Toby said:

Yes I have heard of Peter Levine and researched his methods and I really believe that approach would work for me but I live in a small town and I don't have access to different types of therapies.  This person I see only uses  In Vivo Exposure Therapy....same method for every single person who walks in his office.  He has told me that before.

 

13 hours ago, John Flores said:

Yes, I could see by being totally present and clear minded that it was his EGO that was immediately offended by what I was saying, that's true.

 

12 hours ago, electroBeam said:

I totally agree with you, one approach can't possibly work for everyone right?  Wouldn't that be ridiculous?  Not in his eyes though..

 

12 hours ago, Martin123 said:

 

 

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@LRyan Spirituality is not so fragile that one therapist's methods can break it. You can probably do his methods and still maintain all your spiritual practices. That is, if you were really hard-pressed.

But the obvious answer here is: Why continue seeing someone who isn't aligned with your values?

The biggest benefits from therapy come when the therapist and client are a team. They both have to trust each other, share similar values, and want to work together. If the relationship is adversarial, you might as well stay home and watch TV.

Sounds like this guy doesn't really understand proper therapeutic method. Regardless of how good his results might be with treating PTSD. He also needs to understand that his methods are not appropriate for everyone. If a professional life coach behaved in this manner, he would be disqualified from coaching. It's very amateur behavior to push anything on the client. The client must set the agenda in order for there to be buy-in.

It's strange that you say what you did in your first sentence because I woke up this morning and I thought to myself, he can't take anything away from me regardless of what he says, it's too late I know  what I believe and he can't stop me from continuing.  In order to get through this therapy I will have to keep going in the direction I need to.  It will be very very difficult because the two seem to be in opposition to each other, completely.

He did say to me if my self help books are so great then I have no need for him.  If I felt I could find someone I could align with I would already be gone but the reason I don't just drop him is because I am tied to therapy because of work issues.  They are paying for the treatments, I don't have a choice at this point, I am mandated to receive it.  Or am I?   That is the question......I could take a leap and just say to hell with all the BS...I'm pondering what to do.

 Another reason is that if I drop him, will I just get someone else like him and be back at square one??  That is my fear in which case I might have to deal with much more time in "therapy" with a new person.  I could take a chance but I have a very limited number of other psychologists to choose from.  Maybe I am limiting myself out of fear? ...I'm not sure.

 

 

11 hours ago, I_Like_Thing said:

He sounds incompetent, and, I'm afraid, there are many of those in this field. The red flag was he said things to you that you never say to a patient. It could be a dearth of proper training and education, or he could have just gotten flustered and lost his professionalism for a moment. Either way, it sounds like you would resonate better with a more open-minded therapist. I don't know about where you are, but in California many of them are practicing Buddhists, or at least have the capacity to think beyond the glass plaque on the wall with the certificate inside.

 

He absolutely got flustered and lost his professionalism, I could see it because before I walked into the office I made sure I was deeply present so I could think clearly and see clearly.  I actually saw him turn red and he stuttered.  I have no access at all to any new wave or alternative psychology unfortunately.  I know I would do much much better with a different methodology but I am so very limited by where I live. 

 

10 hours ago, Dodoster said:

I don't have PTSD, but for me the best help is found on youtube and books, the amazing boom of spirituality. Internet allows for easy sharing, and the message is spreading like wildfire! Psychologists have this problem usually - they think they know it all. This is Ego basically, because they are very "knowledgeable". 

 

Yes!!  I think they feel their very own methods are being threatened.  They don't like change or don't want to see anything outside of their own learning and are stuck in there.  It's too bad because who believes there is only one right way to do everything?  No reasonable person...

8 hours ago, Bodhi123 said:

@LRyan The field of Psychology is not fundamentally opposed to spirituality.

Look into psychologists such as Abraham Maslow, Carl Jung, Ken Wilber, and Stanislav Grof. They all acknowledge spirituality and the transcendent potential  of all humans. You could also look into the school of psychology known as Transpersonal Psychology.

Don't let your progress and spirituality be undermined by one individual.

You got this bro. 

 

Thanks for the perspective...I am looking into all of this I am just not "allowed" to mention it or give it any credence while at my appointment.  He will not tolerate any thinking other than his own.  He is a legend in his own mind.

 

7 hours ago, Gopackgo said:

This is an issue that is close to my heart because I love Psychology, and I think the science as a whole is ignoring the best treatment options because they want to be a "science". 

There is no argument that the human brain is not subjective, so I don't understand why psychology continues to try and force people into categories. I can tell you from my experience, actually watching my mind and seeing the thought processes was much more effective than seeing a counselor.

Consider what is happening when you talk to a counselor: 1) you have behaviors that are adversely affecting your life. 2) you try to explain the behaviors to the psychologist (so you interpret your feelings through your subjective belief system and mind into words to tell them). 3) the Psychologist listens to your words (runs them through his belief system and his professional belief system.) 4) He categorizes your malady, and translates his concepts into words that he thinks you will be able to use (subjectively) 5) you listen to the words (after they run through your filter system again), and attempt to  implement them into your life. Because the counselor is not in your head, there are incongruencies which you then rationalize in order to reconcile(which by the way IS the main cause of illusion in the first place.

2 minds, 2 egos, and many different interpretations so you might learn who you are. After all of that, and then you have to continually go back to readjust strategies and adapt treatment to you. 

Compare this to meditation:

1) you watch your thoughts and focus concentration. 2) you naturally find your physiological triggers for anxiety, and learn how to interrupt the cycle. 3) you begin to see the maladaptive thought processes and naturally reconcile them with reality.

1 mind(temporarily a problem), 1 ego (temporarily a problem)

This is without even going into all the spiritual stuff. The last thing you need in your life is another self in between you and happiness. You are trying to get closer to reality, not one step removed. I am not saying that therapists don't work, but I am saying that this therapist seems to be projecting his own ego onto you. Psychologists should be embracing all of this. In fact, higher consciousness is the only thing they should be studying. Instead, they want to continue to group people into large groups and diagnose them with a broad brush. Do not let anyone make you feel bad about yourself because you have the courage to confront your demons. It is the bravest thing a person can do, and I hope you find a good replacement if you feel that is right.

7 hours ago, Gopackgo said:

I totally appreciate your perspective.  I can follow what you're saying about all of these filters everything goes through. I believe he has a rash of his own issues that he is probably projecting or throwing into the mix.  He talks about addictions but he must be addicted to food when all I see is junk food all the time and he is obese.  It's not a judgement but hey, if you can't apply your own methods of psychology to realize you yourself have some issues then that makes me nervous.

This man is either a total egomaniac OR he really truly believes that his method is the Holy Grail of Psychology.  He claims so much success from it and that inflates his ego I think.  I'm wondering how many other patients he has like me that are not helped by what he is doing but are too afraid to speak up and just silently go through his treatment because they are fed up and tired?  Of course I have to come along and disrupt his perfect practice by speaking my truth so I can live with myself and not feel like a mindless sheep.  I don't think anyone has ever challenged him or even said a peep about their own feelings to him.  

He did mention that I was the "only patient" to ever come in and tell him I have been reading "self help" books.  I tried to make a joke and I said "well I feel special then"........maybe he didn't appreciate that either.. He doesn't acknowledge spirituality, he said he doesn't have time anything other than what he does.  Sounds like a very tightly closed mind.  Should a psychologist not keep progressively advancing their knowledge and expanding their treatment??  This is ridiculous to me that I wasn't even allowed to speak of something that I found that has helped me!  He totally freaked out and acted as if he personally was under attack.  I don't respect that at all.  He set the tone for a very uncomfortable discussion.....which turned into a lecture by him and we came full circle back to the initial idea that what he is doing is correct and it is the ONLY way of treating me.

 

[cetus]

8 minutes ago, LRyan said:

It will be very very difficult because the two seem to be in opposition to each other, completely.

@LRyan Life itself is opposition. Yin and Yang. Opposite forces constantly playing tug of war and in doing so keeping everything in perfect balance.

There is nothing difficult about it when you remain at the balance point. So what I'm asking is, could you remain at that point of balance without being pulled too far right or left? Could you stay centered and just observe everything without judgment or resistance and remain open to everything? I'm not saying to buy into everything. I'm just saying stay open to everything and use what serves you best.

[Ramu]

@LRyan Sounds like your psychologist is a rationalist with a defensive ego.  Why else would he feel so threatened?

[LRyan]

2 hours ago, cetus56 said:

@LRyan Life itself is opposition. Yin and Yang. Opposite forces constantly playing tug of war and in doing so keeping everything in perfect balance.

There is nothing difficult about it when you remain at the balance point. So what I'm asking is, could you remain at that point of balance without being pulled too far right or left? Could you stay centered and just observe everything without judgment or resistance and remain open to everything? I'm not saying to buy into everything. I'm just saying stay open to everything and use what serves you best.

You are so very right on this.  I took a nice walk outside next to a river and on my way back I was looking at the trees which were swaying in the wind and I thought, the tree isn't resisting the wind it just goes with the wind and sways gently. The water easily flowed over melting ice and branches in the water, there was no resistance.  Then it occurred to me, why can't I just see this "obstacle" as an opportunity to again grow.  Then I thought, I don't have to compromise anything about what I believe because what I truly am can never ever be disturbed at the core, only my story and my mind's idea of who I am would really object to any idea other than its own.

It sounds like what you are saying is to go with the flow and take the path of least resistance...be the observer?

Truly, this must be the way that was meant for me to go.  At the risk of sounding corny, I believe the universe or synchronicity sent me your message exactly when I came back inside my home with these thoughts, and opened up this page!  Can you believe that??!!

 I will keep your words in "mind" while going forward with this therapy

Thank you...

1 hour ago, Ramu said:

@LRyan Sounds like your psychologist is a rationalist with a defensive ego.  Why else would he feel so threatened?

Maybe that is his path, maybe he sincerely believes that is the only way to help people. I'll never know...

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by LRyan

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

[Ramu]

@LRyan Hes behaving like a rationalist with a scared, threatened ego, shivering under the blankets frightened of the thunder and lightening   I used to react negatively to spirituality and used to throw that category in with religion and call them wackos.  Why???  Because it threatened my naive realism paradigm.  Rationalists will lash out with ANGER at this stuff.  Because when you boil it down, what is anger and resistance?  Its fear!  The ego doesn't want to HEAR IT!  The more ego is exposed to this Truth, the more it dies a little bit every day.  Do what a Master does and bless your psychologist.  Then move onto another one that's more aligned with your needs.  I hope your PTSD gets resolved.  Much love, Ramu.  

[mostly harmless]

Wife left him for a hippie?

[LRyan]

@Ramu I had to look up rationalist...I've heard of the term but I'm not really familiar with the meaning....He definitely could be.  What bothered me the most was his obvious anger that I even suggest that something other than his treatments have been helping me!  He was visibly upset and he later even said "I'm not mad at you, I just want you to know that".  Maybe it's my role to teach the teacher!  But I don't think he wants to learn one thing from anyone really.

@see_on_see    Thank you for pointing out the obvious, seriously. I really mean it....It truly is ridiculous you're right and he doesn't seem grounded to me at all and, I don't really know if he can help me at all.  I could possibly start over with someone else but at this point, I feel like what I am doing on my own is helping me more than anything else has and so in some way I kind of just want to get this over with.  The more I think about it the more  confused I get because I would really like to move on but I feel stuck..

Maybe I can use this as an experience to practice what I know about awareness and consciousness?  Does that seem foolish, I don't know?  I can probably remain calmer than he can I know that.  Maybe as it was suggested, I can try to remain centered and keep an open mind.  It will be hard because I am surprised at the terrible way he handled things. Maybe this is a test for me?  Why did I end up with this guy?   I'm not 100% sure of what to think about this anymore..

 

@Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj Yea....maybe!

Edited March 29, 2017 by LRyan

[Bebop]

@LRyanMan I'm sorry you had to go through that, makes me feel lucky that I was able to find open minded therapists that actually practiced spirituality. If he can't be open to your decision to branch out into other practices it sounds like hes not a good fit for you or anyone for that matter, especially if he is going to lose his cool like that. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of not finding another therapist. When I first found mine it was by chance when I was sent to the hospital for a panic attack, they showed me a list of therapists and I happened to pick one that spent time in India studying under an enlightened master which I found out later. If you ask the universe for a sign maybe something similar will happen for you, I don't think it was an accident that it happened for me especially since there's not many people into spirituality where I am. Also might be a little crazy but maybe you were put into your therapists path to show him that hes not the big shot that he thinks he is, who knows Whatever happens I wish you the best on your journey, you got this man  

[Arkandeus]

the moment he got angry he stopped trying to help you.  

this was a struggle of identity , for the psychologist. 
Many psychologists are actually open to spirituality and some aren't. 

I think it's important to keep perspective. Like he said, he did help you start reading again so I assumed he did help you in some ways. 
It's important to understand this, no teaching is perfect, and no teacher is perfect. 

 
As you evolve you meet new teachers, and you need new teachings, but that doesn't mean the previous teacher or teaching was bad, on the contrary it helped you move forward to where you are. 
there always come a point where things need to move on. 
You have to see things in a nuanced way, this person is not being of help to you now, this person even exploded on you.But he was of help before. 
I'd be grateful that this happened. It's your higher self guiding you. 

Now you can make a new choice, take on a new path. You can find a new teacher or teaching. A new psychologist or maybe you feel you don't need a psychologist anymore. 
You could also feel like there are still things to learn from this man and continue seeing him, it's all up to you and how you feel. 

Can you see the beauty in what happened? I really find it interesting. suddenly your psychologist burst out and releases his inner identity struggles, shows you his vulnerabilities, shows you his weakness, literally shows you that he's got nothing left to teach you anymore. 
In your position I'd seriously rejoice!  things in your life are moving forward, accelerating,

But again don't take this as an opportunity to look down on someone, a teacher or a teaching will always become obsolete, because you will always move on to bigger and newer things in your journey.
It's important to keep respect for the things that helped as you move on. respect the way your psychologist helped you, forgive his outburst, or even be thankful to it, as you now decide where to go. 

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Arkandeus

[Ramu]

@LRyan watch leos video on Why Rationalism is Wrong