The people invalidating the reality of men's loneliness are paid bots

[Consept]

22 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I have coined a term for this type of response. It's called 'benevolent emasculation'. That's what you're doing here. 

'MaN uP BrO, aLl oF yOuR ProBleMs aRe ImAgInArY BrO'

You can call it what you want, what I was giving you is a masculine, problem solving response, which is the kinda response that ironically is demonised in feminist circles. 

Just because you label a response something it doesn't mean it's not valid. The point is what gets results, meaning what is actually going to help men out of their situation. Your solution seems to be let's call out women that criticise men online, I guess bu leaving comments or posting on forums. My solution is men should get out, maybe go to the gym, get therapy, meet people, don't get involved with culture wars or looking for online enemies or people that enable them online. Essentially I propose taking responsibility you seem to proposing blame. 

People are free to choose what they think works and I would suggest try both ways and see what leaves you less lonely. 

[mr_engineer]

12 minutes ago, TheGreekSeeker said:

@mr_engineer I understand your frustration. Many times I've felt the need to wage a jihad. But it is a lower jihad. The truth is, if you are a guy, neither women nor other men really care about your issues, besides family. I don't think it's immature to express our feelings, but deep down no one cares besides close family or very close friends.

If we constantly fight toxic femininity we will be fighting against an up-hill battle. Our neediness will repulse even benevolent women. You can't expect nothing from random women. My father told me that the only woman who will truly love me is my mother. Besides a mother, a sister, a grandmother, a close female friend and a girlfriend no woman truly cares. And no guy truly cares. There is no male-to-male solidarity. 

Step 1 - when a man gets in your way when you fight toxic femininity, check for whether he's a simp. Because the only men who will get in your way are simps. So, stop putting up with simps in your men's social-circle. Then you'll get supportive men who will have strong character, who will actually have a constructive vision and who won't just preach to you that 'it's all your fault' and 'you're focusing on things that don't really matter'. 

Step 2 - Identify the type of woman who benefits from simps and avoid them. These women typically objectify themselves. Have no tolerance for this behavior in women. For this, first, you have to stop objectifying women yourself and you have to figure out how to make a sexually compatible relationship work with them. You do this, the women in your dating-pool will have zero tolerance for simps. 

Step 3 - Lead the women in your life to their authentic feminine expression. A lot of times, when women are truly feminine, they have Life-Purposes that center around solving these types of problems in the world. I have met such women and they care a lot more than immediate family. If your immediate family had solutions, you wouldn't be facing these issues to begin with. You grew up with these issues and you want someone who has mental-health wisdom to help you out with this. 

It's not as uphill as you think. These women often-times have an 'independence'-based relating-style. Which cannot possibly work long-term. It's not sustainable. The man is a simp in these situations and she's using him, for the most part. Men become simps because modern women have no role in their personal lives for men. This is a relationship-failure for women, even moreso than men. The average woman can't just sit around and do nothing about this, they have to become aware themselves and they have to figure out where men fit into their lives. No individual can solve this problem alone, everyone has to do something about it. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Consept said:

You can call it what you want, what I was giving you is a masculine, problem solving response, which is the kinda response that ironically is demonised in feminist circles. 

Just because you label a response something it doesn't mean it's not valid. The point is what gets results, meaning what is actually going to help men out of their situation. Your solution seems to be let's call out women that criticise men online, I guess bu leaving comments or posting on forums. My solution is men should get out, maybe go to the gym, get therapy, meet people, don't get involved with culture wars or looking for online enemies or people that enable them online. Essentially I propose taking responsibility you seem to proposing blame. 

People are free to choose what they think works and I would suggest try both ways and see what leaves you less lonely. 

Ever notice the ones with the problem almost always have the solutions too, but the problem still exists. You can almost always find the solution within the problem. Then they seek out others to try to solve their problem thinking that all people solve problems the same way, so they tell the people they seek out to solve their problem how to solve their problem their way. It's like trying to find the flashlight using the flashlight. YOU CAN NEVER SOLVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SAME CONSCIOUSNESS THAT CREATED IT - Einstein. It's that simple. You are a SIMP according to him so you know how to solve problems simply. 

I've found that when I change myself the things I look at change. When you tell a child don't do this don't do that, they ask you why; but if you give them options as to what to do instead, and for them to choose from the options you've given them, they feel more empowered to thinking they made that decision on their own. We have to know that we have options to choose from and that we are not bounded by society to make us feel empowered but to recognize our own abilities to change ourselves so we can start to see the change we seek. What you've said reflects this, but it cannot be recognized by someone who is stuck in their own head as to how the problem should be solved. They are not looking for ways to solve anything but for people to join in their fight against something instead of seeking out ones who are for the solution., like you are.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[mr_engineer]

9 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You are a SIMP according to him so you know how to solve problems simply. 

That is not what 'simp' means. A simp means someone who parades around like a 'real man' to get women's approval rather than being in reality and talking about real problems. 

11 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I've found that when I change myself the things I look at change. When you tell a child don't do this don't do that, they ask you why; but if you give them options as to what to do instead, and for them to choose from the options you've given them, they feel more empowered to thinking they made that decision on their own. We have to know that we have options to choose from and that we are not bounded by society to make us feel empowered but to recognize our own abilities to change ourselves so we can start to see the change we seek. What you've said reflects this, but it cannot be recognized by someone who is stuck in their own head as to how the problem should be solved. They are not looking for ways to solve anything but for people to join in their fight against something instead of seeking out ones who are for the solution., like you are.

If only you applied your own advice... 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

13 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You are a SIMP according to him so you know how to solve problems simply. 

That is not what 'simp' means. A simp means someone who parades around like a 'real man' to get women's approval rather than being in reality and talking about real problems. 

I know how you guys define simp. I was giving my own definition as I don't need to follow other people's.

[mr_engineer]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

I know how you guys define simp. I was giving my own definition as I don't need to follow other people's.

Maybe learn to not create semantic problems before you give advice on loneliness. 

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

If only you applied your own advice.

You don't see me on here complaining about men do you, I might make observations but that's not the same as complaining. 

[mr_engineer]

8 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You don't see me on here complaining about men do you, I might make observations but that's not the same as complaining. 

'You should change yourself'. That's complaining. That implies that 'something is wrong with you. I don't even know what, but there is something wrong with you'. This is scapegoating. 

No, tell me. What is wrong with me?! What should I change about myself?! And why should I do it?! Sell that to me, please. I'm sick and tired of this scapegoating nonsense. How dare you do this. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Maybe learn to not create semantic problems before you give advice on loneliness. 

Maybe start to see the correlation between a lot of things and the similarities between how you can solve a particular problem using an advice not relating to that particular problem as so-called "problems" are usually the result from prior actions we've made not directly related to the current situation. Your future depends on your current beliefs and your current situation stems from your past beliefs. 

[Princess Arabia]

56 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

'You should change yourself'. That's complaining. That implies that 'something is wrong with you. I don't even know what, but there is something wrong with you'. This is scapegoating. 

When I said change myself/yourself I actually meant change my perception of myself and how I'm perceiving what I'm seeing. All is perception as there is no self to change, there's only the Self.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Consept]

If your problems only exist when you look at your phone or computer and not in your everyday life then the solution should be obvious. 

How many feminists are minimising you or telling you to change as you go about your day to day life in the real world? Probably none therefore these are not real problems unless you want them to be. Or what about look at your phone but avoid the algorithm that let's you feel like a victim by blocking those channels. This is not hard. 

[mr_engineer]

19 minutes ago, Consept said:

If your problems only exist when you look at your phone or computer and not in your everyday life then the solution should be obvious. 

How many feminists are minimising you or telling you to change as you go about your day to day life in the real world? Probably none therefore these are not real problems unless you want them to be. Or what about look at your phone but avoid the algorithm that let's you feel like a victim by blocking those channels. This is not hard. 

• I was falsely accused by a girl in high-school. I had to plead guilty to minimize consequences. That should not have happened. 
• In real life, women avoid men in public settings. 
• HR-departments are egregiously anti-male. They are always looking for scapegoats, it's their job. The MeToo situation didn't help. 
• If a woman points a finger at you, you're guilty until proven innocent. 

Look man, just say that you want to deflect everything on the man. It's fine, you're not abnormally dysfunctional when you do that. 

[Princess Arabia]

I'm leaving this video right here, I just watched it as it just got released and while watching I thought it might help you understand what is being said. You have to watch in its entirety and just switch the Specific Person Part to anything you want to attract. It explains what I mean by changing your perceptions. @mr_engineer

[Luca001]

@mr_engineer This is life, it can look and feel unfair.

Either you man up and start to focus on things you can influence or you will continue to cry about it on a forum.

[mr_engineer]

49 minutes ago, Luca001 said:

@mr_engineer This is life, it can look and feel unfair.

Either you man up and start to focus on things you can influence or you will continue to cry about it on a forum.

No, this is not 'life'. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. 

And I'm not 'crying about it'. I'm proposing a solution and seeing how people respond. It's called market-research. I want to see what the esteemed forum-members have to say about this. I knew I would get flak, I just wanted to see whether it'd be rational or not. 

Most people here who talk about 'manning up' are engaging in benevolent emasculation. It's really interesting how you don't see how what I'm doing is the definition of 'manning up' and facing a problem. Maybe it's cuz yall don't want to face the root-causes of the problem?! 

Please learn what 'man up' actually means, in practice. I don't know what you think it means, but it's wrong. Cuz you're saying it to someone who is doing just that. You're just throwing around the term willy-nilly. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Consept]

@mr_engineer

Btw you on your bullet points you only had one that was directly part of your life, but I wasn't necessarily talking about you I was saying in general, the people complaining about these 'injustices' can easily live real life without ever really coming into contact with them regularly. 

Bigger point, don't you think everyone has to go through injustices because of their given identity. Black people have specific struggles, I've personally been stopped by the police numerous times for no particular reason. Women have their struggles, I was at a party just this weekend and one of the guys was bordering on harassment in his pursuit of women at the party. Men of course have struggles as well I'm just saying the solution to these problems is not bitching about another group that you think has more privilege than you, it's to make the best of the hand you've been dealt. You probably don't care that much about the struggles of other groups and that's normal because they don't affect you in the same way. 

I'm not saying struggles don't exist, I'm just saying this strategy of trying to shame others of caring about your specific struggle is just not gonna work. As I said lonely men need to do what they need to do and is within their influence to get out of that situation if they are not happy about. Blaming others is just enabling them to stay where they are. 

It's like if you're fat and unhealthy and not happy about it, blaming people that call you fat is not gonna get you healthy, it might feel good shaming people but your arteries are still clogged up 

[mr_engineer]

8 minutes ago, Consept said:

Btw you on your bullet points you only had one that was directly part of your life, but I wasn't necessarily talking about you I was saying in general, the people complaining about these 'injustices' can easily live real life without ever really coming into contact with them regularly. 

These are not just 'injustices'. These are collective patterns that have to be changed, or else they will repeat. And, the first step to do that is to call out those who are responsible, to 'put the blame where it belongs', so to speak. 

9 minutes ago, Consept said:

Bigger point, don't you think everyone has to go through injustices because of their given identity. Black people have specific struggles, I've personally been stopped by the police numerous times for no particular reason. Women have their struggles, I was at a party just this weekend and one of the guys was bordering on harassment in his pursuit of women at the party. Men of course have struggles as well

Mr. 'man up bro', normalizing struggles is the opposite of doing something about them. 

9 minutes ago, Consept said:

I'm just saying the solution to these problems is not bitching about another group that you think has more privilege than you, it's to make the best of the hand you've been dealt. You probably don't care that much about the struggles of other groups and that's normal because they don't affect you in the same way. 

It's called 'holding the other group accountable for their part in it'. 

10 minutes ago, Consept said:

I'm not saying struggles don't exist, I'm just saying this strategy of trying to shame others of caring about your specific struggle is just not gonna work. 

This is a limiting-belief. You haven't tried it yet. 

Also, imagine preaching this to women who have gone through sexual assault. 

13 minutes ago, Consept said:

As I said lonely men need to do what they need to do and is within their influence to get out of that situation if they are not happy about. Blaming others is just enabling them to stay where they are. 

This is not about 'blaming'. This is about facing the reality of toxic femininity and dealing with it. I'm on your side here, giving you a way to deal with it. You're the one enabling toxic behavior here. You're just being a simp. 

If you show lonely people some kindness, that's very helpful. It is not a material problem that you have to 'work hard' to solve. You need other people to co-operate in the process of solving it and you have to call out their shit too. 

15 minutes ago, Consept said:

It's like if you're fat and unhealthy and not happy about it, blaming people that call you fat is not gonna get you healthy, it might feel good shaming people but your arteries are still clogged up 

Being fat is purely an individual health problem. But, being lonely is a relationship-problem. And other people have to be better so that you don't suffer like this. It's perfectly valid to call out toxic invalidation like this. 

[Consept]

@mr_engineer

Being alone is a relationship problem but usually that means that there are things the person who's alone has to work on. Why is it other people's responsibility to be 'better' and adjust to that person? Even if youre convinced that's a thing that should happen why would anyone do it? Are you actively being better to help the grievances of women, or are you learning about racism for black people's issues? Or how about Muslims that feek persecuted are you being better for them? Probably not because most people don't work like that. 

Also you calling stuff out online makes no difference to the lonely persons life at all, if they start calling people out do you think these women are gonna go, 'I've just been called out by a lonely man online, I'm gonna rethink everything and seek out lonely guys to be friends with'.

You live so outside of the real world its hard to have a reasonable conversation with you, which seems to be a pattern of your interactions at least on this forum. So if you personally are deep down wanting to connect with people I can see why you might have problems with the mindset that you have. But either way I'm not judging and if it's working for you and you feel happy about calling out all the wrong you perceive then keep going. Everyone is different I guess. 

[mr_engineer]

2 minutes ago, Consept said:

Being alone is a relationship problem but usually that means that there are things the person who's alone has to work on. Why is it other people's responsibility to be 'better' and adjust to that person? Even if youre convinced that's a thing that should happen why would anyone do it?

For their own good, honestly. Most people's relationship-lives suck. 

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

Are you actively being better to help the grievances of women, or are you learning about racism for black people's issues? Or how about Muslims that feek persecuted are you being better for them? Probably not because most people don't work like that. 

Yes, I am being better for them. I deserve the same in return. So, please excuse me as I call out the toxicity. 

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

Also you calling stuff out online makes no difference to the lonely persons life at all, if they start calling people out do you think these women are gonna go, 'I've just been called out by a lonely man online, I'm gonna rethink everything and seek out lonely guys to be friends with'.

It will raise awareness around toxic femininity, more and more men will start to stand up for themselves against it and if people are talking about it, yes, they will want to rethink everything. Not to save the lonely guy, for their own good. 

6 minutes ago, Consept said:

You live so outside of the real world its hard to have a reasonable conversation with you, which seems to be a pattern of your interactions at least on this forum. 

You're so lost in your 'real world', it's like pointing water to a fish. I'm observing it from a distance, which is why I can see what I can see. 

9 minutes ago, Consept said:

So if you personally are deep down wanting to connect with people I can see why you might have problems with the mindset that you have. But either way I'm not judging and if it's working for you and you feel happy about calling out all the wrong you perceive then keep going. Everyone is different I guess. 

Actually, I'm doing fine with people. Thanks for the concern. 

And, I don't know what 'mindset' you're talking about. More scapegoating, I guess. 

[Consept]

@mr_engineer I get the sense from you that you know everything you need to and are set in your way of thinking, so I'm not sure how fruitful this discussion is but thanks for the back and forth anyway