Ralston Gives A Clear Answer To Metaphysical Love Question

[Osaid]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:16 AM, Leo Gura said:

That sense is 1% of what it could be.

Yeah, one percent of Truth and God. Makes sense. So now we have to INCREASE to a higher percentage so that we can become MORE God. 

And how are you coming to that conclusion? Surely it's experiential and not intellectual? But wait, percentages only exist in contrast to other things. Uh oh.

On 9/20/2023 at 8:16 AM, Leo Gura said:

You must recognize that your very human life is an obstacle to you being consciousness.

Right. Being human is anti-consciousness.

On 9/20/2023 at 8:16 AM, Leo Gura said:

If you become conscious enough you will start to lose your sanity. That's proper consciousness.

Ok got it, hopefully one day my consciousness will become proper and not improper.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Osaid

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

you truly want to untangle the conceptual mind here...seek to accept every position here. Basically AGREE WITH EVERYTHING and argue nothing. What your currently doing is the opposite which actually makes your ego more rigid. 

That's what it seems to you, because I point out things I don't agree with, because your mind reflects my mind. you understand? When I debate with you I see the structures of your mind and those of my mind, I try to penetrate minds and see where the obstacle is that they cannot overcome, this way I see more clearly where the obstacles are that I cannot overcome. 

I also want to see the strengths of other minds, so it is useful to put them in a dilemma.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

On 20.9.2023 at 2:59 PM, Inliytened1 said:

I give you a lot of credit for keeping your cool in the midst of all the criticism, but it's you thats deceived here.  And you don't have to walk around in God Consciousness 24/7 to be conscious of God.   @Water by the River is telling you exactly how it is, but your mind is too closed to see anything.  If you had had the genetic makeup for natural enlightenment you would not be sitting here in some endless pursuit of Truth or bashing those that have found it.  I feel sorry for you, almost.  The video @Osaid posted says it all.  @Water by the River could explain it to you a thousand times and you still wouldn't get it.

So it appears he has chosen suffering again. Considering the last cycle time it wont probably take long. The nadir of each cycle looks more dramatic each time, like a downward slope towards (Alien?)at-least-questionable-non-sanity.

Well, Truth is Truth, and in the end humbles each separte self illusion and brings it to its knees.

On one side its unfortunate and unnecessary suffering, but on the other side Spirit wants exactly this show. Else it wouldnt happen.

My nowadays pretty non-grasping preference would be a happy ever after for him, but who am I to have any preferences on the ways Spirit manifests its mysterious ways.

I do admit that there is mild rejoice and relief in my (relative) being in not being confused on which side holds the Truth. Guess that is the blessing in going from younger years to middle years, having walked a long path of practice on an authentic millenia old spiritual path, which many before have successfully walked to their True Eternal Home. And indeed apparently it seems to feel very much at home everywhere the journey goes. Self-evident Absolute Truth is always right here, right now, always in reach.

We are staying during holidays in a nice old castle hotel at the edge of a sandstone-mountain-cliff during vacation in Cesky Raj (Bohemian Paradise). Which is a lovely name and aligns quite well with the way this blissful infinite pure nondual Reality that has become so always available right here and now...

Water by the River

PS: Truth... an interesting thing... "Sooner or later that debt is paid". Always.

 

 

[vibv]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

I do admit that there is mild rejoice and relief in my (relative) being in not being confused on which side holds the Truth. Guess that is the blessing in going from younger years to middle years, having walked a long path of practice on an authentic millenia old spiritual path, which many before have successfully walked to their True Eternal Home. And indeed apparently it seems to feel very much at home everywhere the journey goes. Self-evident Absolute Truth is always right here, right now, always in reach.

That's really nice. I know that it's very comfortable there and I don't want to take it away. In fact it hasn't to and doesn't go away!

A lot of people seem to settle there - which is totally OK! But in no way is that the end of the flagpole. That's just the point where it starts to get interesting.

[Razard86]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's what it seems to you, because I point out things I don't agree with, because your mind reflects my mind. you understand? When I debate with you I see the structures of your mind and those of my mind, I try to penetrate minds and see where the obstacle is that they cannot overcome, this way I see more clearly where the obstacles are that I cannot overcome. 

I also want to see the strengths of other minds, so it is useful to put them in a dilemma.

You can only penetrate a mind if you first understand their perspective. Many times when you disagree...you are unable to describe what the disagreement is. You often give vague descriptions and don't go into detail so it often comes across as just random disagreement for the sake of it. 

For example you said above on another's post...it is lacking a dimension....that really doesn't say anything....

[Breakingthewall]

45 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

For example you said above on another's post...it is lacking a dimension....that really doesn't say anything....

It doesn't mean nothing to you, but means everything to me. When Hawkings says on his scale: love, joy, bliss, etc., for me it is focused on a dimension of, let's say, sensations. For me it lacks the dimension of depth, of openness. because it is a dimension that I perceive clearly, the one that I perceive the most. for him enlightenment is to see love, glory, etc. For me it is that the cosmos opens and reveals itself as a living being, like a plant that develops. It is unlimited vision. Hawkins doesn't talk about this on his scale, so for me he lacks that dimension. Seems that it's the level 400, reason, but it's something different, reason is conceptual thinking. When he says understanding he means that kind of understanding, or that's that I see in his scheme. So maybe if he's here, he could give an opinion, and maybe id see that I was wrong

Edited September 21, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

49 minutes ago, vibv said:

But in no way is that the end of the flagpole. That's just the point where it starts to get interesting.

Exactly. That is the moment where the struggle to equalize the human ends and the possibility of true openness to what reality is begins.

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

So it appears he has chosen suffering again.

Suffering is the engine of evolution. No suffering means no evolution. 

We'll see, maybe he's deceived, maybe he's pointing to something real. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It doesn't mean nothing to you, but means everything to me. When Hawkings says on his scale: love, joy, bliss, etc., for me it is focused on a dimension of, let's say, sensations. For me it lacks the dimension of depth, of openness. because it is a dimension that I perceive clearly, the one that I perceive the most. for him enlightenment is to see love, glory, etc. For me it is that the cosmos opens and reveals itself as a living being, like a plant that develops. It is unlimited vision. Hawkins doesn't talk about this on his scale, so for me he lacks that dimension. Seems that it's the level 400, reason, but it's something different, reason is conceptual thinking. When he says understanding he means that kind of understanding, or that's that I see in his scheme. So maybe if he's here, he could give an opinion, and maybe id see that I was wrong

The part I bolded....that takes talking to yourself to a whole other level LOL.

Example: Hey dude I didn't understand what you meant? Mind explaining?

Response: It means everything to me!!!

Example: Wow...dude...I guess you are the only one here....why are you so mean to yourself dude?

Now onto your analysis....you said it lacks the dimension of depth of openness, because you perceive it clearly...um how can it lack the depth of openness...if you perceive it clearly...that means it was open enough to be perceived clearly......

You said he sees enlightenment as love, glory, you see it as the cosmos revealing itself as a living being. How is a living being, that is revealing itself DIFFERENT than love and glory?

This is what I am talking about!!! You have a very divisive mind that seeks to divide. Literally all the epistemological teachings would say that the cosmos revealing itself, which would be called awakening is an expression of love, and glory!! But you somehow...find a way...to disagree...and create it into a debate....about nothing!!! LOL!!! 

You are a perfect expression of the absolute's ability to purposefully create conflict over nothing!!!! This is why I said you don't know love....because you turned love into a concept, and then as result become confused. I asked a friend of mine who has taken 5 MEO about you and why you do this nonsense and he says it is probably your strategy to stay grounded. I'm like if he wants to stay grounded...it might be better for him to get off the forums cause he is just messing his mind up.

When you took 5 MEO....was that a concept? I see what the problem is....you don't like the fact that it is only you....you don't think that's love. The void terrifies you. I experienced it before so I get it, but all you got to do is remember...it's you and everything will be okay. I finally understand what your issue is. Because you think love doesn't actually exist as everything and nothing. Because you don't see the void as love...this is the cause of all your responses. 

At a certain point you gotta accept it man....

Edited September 22, 2023 by Razard86

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You are a perfect expression of the absolute's ability to purposefully create conflict over nothing!!!!

Where you see conflict I see the attempt to tune concepts, to get deep in understanding, in making the other person to think and express their point. You see conflict because you feel attacked, and you react by defending yourself. You feel attacked because you have the need to maintain a status to yourself and when that status is threatened, you defend it. If none of that existed in you, you would see all of this for what it is: a mind game. But as it exists, all your reasoning is corrupted by that need. 

But you are too trapped in your need of self esteem for now, so it's useless to point you that, it just is going to provoke another reaction , but anyway I tell it to you because I like to put the truth in the surface

Edited September 22, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Suffering is the engine of evolution. No suffering means no evolution. 

We'll see, maybe he's deceived, maybe he's pointing to something real. 

suffering is saying this dream is everything and i do anything to remain

this is one episode of an infinite saga

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Razard86 said:

When you took 5 MEO....was that a concept? I see what the problem is....you don't like the fact that it is only you....you don't think that's love

That's when I was struggling with 5meo, now I did 5meo so many times that I stopped because even I vape 25 mg, it doesn't give anything to me, total dissolution is just total dissolution, a Monday afternoon. Sometimes I did 3 times in one day, because I felt that some structure was remaining, until nothing left. I feel quite comfortable with the dissolution. if now I'm going to do a big dose of 5 meo, my fear is just a little . So I'd say you are not very accurate in your deductions

Edited September 22, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

11 hours ago, vibv said:

A lot of people seem to settle there - which is totally OK! But in no way is that the end of the flagpole. That's just the point where it starts to get interesting.

Can't get more Absolute than Absolute. The rest is relative/manifestation. Fascinating to explore if one is so inclined. Confusing Absolute and Relative only brings unnecessary suffering. 

[vibv]

49 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Can't get more Absolute than Absolute. The rest is relative/manifestation. Fascinating to explore if one is so inclined. Confusing Absolute and Relative only brings unnecessary suffering. 

Consider that there's more to it than that. That it may be something like Spiral Dynamics, where you think you're in possession of the truth at each stage, but there's another stage above that integrates all stages before it and still brings something totally new to the table that hasn't been considered before. Until there's some stage at which you realise that it never ends.

The realisation of the ever-present unchanging and always perfect absolute that can't be harmed and is never involved in any of the content is totally valid. But let it be proposed that that's not all there is to this whole thing.

Edited September 22, 2023 by vibv

[Water by the River]

7 minutes ago, vibv said:

Consider that there's more to it than that. That it may be something like Spiral Dynamics, where you think you're in possession of the truth at each stage, but there's another stage above that integrates all stages before it and still brings something totally new to the table that hasn't been considered before. Until there's some stage at which you realise that it never ends.

The realisation of the ever-present unchanging and always perfect absolute that can't be harmed and is never involved in any of the content is totally valid. But let it be proposed that that's not all there is to this whole thing.

Look for yourself. And maybe check how Absolute is defined. The Absolute contains the "whole thing", or the relative stuff. The essence of the relative is the Absolute (gold and ring metaphor). There is nothing besides it, nor can be. As long as the Absolute is not realized there is reasoning along the lines you mention.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Water by the River

[vibv]

5 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

The essence of the relative is the Absolute (gold and ring metaphor). There is nothing besides it, nor can be. 

Yup. I'm aware of that. But the relative is not just random content. There's something far more deep and profound going on. My point stands: Realising that there is nothing but the absolute isn't the end.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Can't get more Absolute than Absolute. The rest is relative/manifestation. Fascinating to explore if one is so inclined. Confusing Absolute and Relative only brings unnecessary suffering. 

true, but there is a nuance. There is no absolute/relative duality, right? The only thing relative is the appearance that occurs due to the activity of the conceptual mind. So, this moment, now, is the absolute. You can sit in meditation and stop the activity I mentioned above and realize that you are absolute. This is what we describe here as enlightenment, right? But once this is done, there is more. you, as a human, are a defined pattern of existence. This pattern has a very variable possible opening range. You can realize the absolute and have a narrow aperture range, or wider. The broader, the more perception of reality. not of relative reality, this does not exist! but from the unfathomable depth of absolute reality that you are 

The thing is not to get a conceptual definition, or knowing, it's to see deeper. Just look around you: magic. What is that? Just images? No, it's the absolute in movement, and we are that . How deep can you see? For anyone who discover the possibility to get a bit deeper, it's impossible to don't want to go a bit more. It's like scuba diving, beauty and magic to discover inside you, and you, the energetic pattern, get adapted little by little to more openess, more depth. Just for the beauty, but what is existence at the end? 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

Well, the fascinating manifestation of the Absolute is going on within the Absolute: The Relative . Never denied that...

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Well, the fascinating manifestation of the Absolute is going on within the Absolute: The Relative . Never denied that...

So do you think that the relative is a manifestation of the absolute? I'd say that there is no relative, just seems relative due the mental activity. There is no duality, not a god creating, not dream , just absolute in movement. Agree that you can realize the quality of the absolute, it's essence, and you don't need more than that, but you can realize also it's movement, as you said, manifestation, but it isn't relative, it's also absolute

Edited September 22, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

I meant, if you empty your mind, the essence of the absolute is realized, but últimately an empty mind and a full mind are the same, the absolute,just that in the full mind the trees hide the wood. There is no different quality in emptiness compared to fullness, it only seems that way. Imo The error is assuming that there is a wrong activity, which leads to suffering, vs. an enlightening attitude that liberates from it. everything is the absolute. There is just our preference against suffering because it's unpleasant .

Once you have seen this, all you have to do is open yourself to yourself as deep as you can