Ralston Gives A Clear Answer To Metaphysical Love Question

[Loveeee]

11 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Sorry I meant you're lost in concepts and beliefs 

 

[Water by the River]

9 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

Sorry I meant you're lost in concepts and beliefs 

 

I assumed that. You get the smile anyway.

 

On 15.9.2023 at 1:55 PM, Water by the River said:

Agree. But there are states where the light is just switched off. No manifestation AT ALL, including love. As soon as manifestation arises again, its back.

The only reason I emphasize getting every concept/idea/whatever away from the Absolute is: all of that prevents its realization. You have to throw away/cut off each and every (subtle) concept/feeling/whatever to realize it. Including all you thought you were before.

Then you have a chance of realizing it, in a non-conceptual, empty and impersonal and nondual/infinite state free of all the delusion of dual/conceptual thinking. You have to be IT. And IT is infinite, impersonal, silent, groundless. And Reality itself. And from IT radiates love. But that is already form/manifestation.

quote from:

 

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Davino said:

@Princess Arabia

A property of infinity. We agree in most things but it's just not funny to talk about what we agree, hence the discussions to push our limits and find truth.

Intelligence, understanding or Jnana is not the only path to God but is the one that most people in this forum stick to.

Love and surrendering is another path. Industrial yoga and meditation another. 

One could say that they get the same taste of icecream with a different flavour. They will defenitely won't get the pure mental grasping of reality but they would get other facets of the same oneness.

 

The most insane individuals are those that have mastered many paths to their final end. Which will get them to taste more flavours of the same ice cream. Most of such individuals are just naturally talented like RamaKrishna or Sri Anandamayi Ma.  How many flavours are there? Infinite.

 

This is a little analogy, don't get too attached to it but I do consider that in your current progress in the path will serve you right and give you some clarity. Maybe I would give another answer to another person. What helps some people in one point in their paths can destroy people in a different stage. I invite people in the forum to be more aware of this fact.

 

We don't make the rules, we just abide by them. 

Thank you for these responses.

[Loveeee]

13 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

I assumed that. You get the smile anyway.

 

quote from:

 

By definition, if it's not part of your current experience, it's a belief

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Loveeee

[Bufo Alvarius]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

For the other "people": Notice the non-euclidian (infinite) space in the vision below. And now just forget all the other perspectives (forgetting not in time, but in space so to say). That is how you splice up Infinite Consciousness, and forget that YOU are all other beings/persepctives.

 

The people/beings are just perspectives in Indras Great Net, reflecting each other, and that Impersonal Pure Infinite Consciousness/Awareness is the True You.

Have you become conscious of being/having other POVs simultaneously to yours (as infinite awarness), like the image displays or do you hold this as belief?

[Loveeee]

1 minute ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

Have you become conscious of being/having other POVs simultaneously to yours (as infinite awarness), like the image displays or do you hold this as belief?

There's no such thing as multiple POVS, even in this example, that's only 1 POV 

[Water by the River]

Just now, Loveeee said:

But yet here you are believing in some "raging nothing" ?

That is a pointer to the Absolute Leavitt uses.

Nothing is not a bad pointer for the infinite/empty aspect, the Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness.  Better is Nothingness, because its harder to imagine some object with that, and be it just emptiness silence.

And raging refers to the Manifested Side of Arisings, which is a wild divine dance of manifestation/arising.

If you want to understand the pointers given by Leavitt and how to interpret them, what he means by them, please feel free to read the book.

And if you prefer, we can also use the clap of the one hand, Raspberry, or just silence. I am pretty flexible on that. The signifier (word) doesn't count as much as the referent (Realization of the Absolute). And if the Referent is realized/known, then pointers work. And if not, then not. 

 

[Loveeee]

6 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

That is a pointer to the Absolute Leavitt uses.

Nothing is not a bad pointer for the infinite/empty aspect, the Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness.  Better is Nothingness, because its harder to imagine some object with that, and be it just emptiness silence.

And raging refers to the Manifested Side of Arisings, which is a wild divine dance of manifestation/arising.

If you want to understand the pointers given by Leavitt and how to interpret them, what he means by them, please feel free to read the book.

And if you prefer, we can also use the clap of the one hand, Raspberry, or just silence. I am pretty flexible on that. The signifier (word) doesn't count as much as the referent (Realization of the Absolute). And if the Referent is realized/known, then pointers work. And if not, then not. 

 

Man look

There is current experience  

Anything else is belief, and delusion 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Loveeee

[Water by the River]

3 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

Have you become conscious of being/having other POVs simultaneously to yours (as infinite awarness), like the image displays or do you hold this as belief?

Not like the vision shown in that picture. But with direct nondual realization, yes.

It is clear. The same Pure Impersonal Awareness/I-Am-ness that I know myself to be is in all beings, and in every arising/manifestation I see. That is not a concept, but a direct realization/experience. It is directly becoming consciousness of that. It is impossible to carry that fully in words.

When the personal self is gone, what remains is Impersonal Pure Awareness. And that realizes itself to be in all beings, all things, each and every realm, infinite, limitless. That is the true core of all beings, below their arising clouding/illusion of their separate-self arisings. Since there is, was, and ever will be ONLY that.

And with all these claims about metaphysical love here in this threat: THAT is the source of love. There literally IS NO OTHER, and never can be. Never was. There is only the illusion of anything separate/other.

You can't have Full Realization of the nature of Reality (and ones true self) if one doesn't have that. Because that would be an "other". That breaks any nondual state.

That comes btw. not as "facet" of Awakening, but naturally with fully waking up. How could one wake up if there is still another person/being? There is only one suchness/"substance" of Reality, and that is the True You.

[Water by the River]

4 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

Man look

There is current experience  

Anything else is belief, and delusion 

Including the concepts you just wrote.

[Loveeee]

@Water by the River

If you pinch someone you think it causes pain ? Just trying to make sure I get what you mean 

[Water by the River]

Just now, Loveeee said:

@Water by the River

If you pinch someone you think it causes pain ? Just trying to make sure I get what you mean 

Sure

[Loveeee]

Just now, Water by the River said:

Sure

Yep you're deluded 

[Loveeee]

@Water by the RiverWhat if you pinch someone in your dreams ? 

[Bufo Alvarius]

1 minute ago, Water by the River said:

Not like the vision shown in that picture. But with direct nondual realization, yes.

It is clear. The same Pure Impersonal Awareness/I-Am-ness that I know myself to be is in all beings, and in every arising/manifestation I see. That is not a concept, but a direct realization/experience. It is directly becoming consciousness of that. It is impossible to carry that fully in words.

When the personal self is gone, what remains is Impersonal Pure Awareness. And that realizes itself to be in all beings, all things, each and every realm, infinite, limitless. That is the true core of all beings, below their arising clouding/illusion of their separate-self arisings. Since there is, was, and ever will be ONLY that.

 

Well, in non-dual direct realization all sense percpetion are realized as impersonal, empty Awarness. When you say 'other beings', it's really just part of your visual field.

How to you make the transition, that this aspect of the visual field, for example 'another being', is being experienced by (the same) infinite awarness at the same time, but 'outside' your visual field?

[Water by the River]

2 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

Yep you're deluded 

So that means you are the only one or only perspective, and all others are just NPCs in your dream if you think there is no mindstream that holds the pain of the pinching then.

So that I must assume is the outcome of Leos Solipsism teachings.

All "others" on the forum who read this can make up their own mind about if you are the only perspective perceiving anything.

The funny thing about the Solipsist is: Everybody else hearing the Solipsist knows the guy is wrong.

[Water by the River]

 

6 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

Well, in non-dual direct realization all sense percpetion are realized as impersonal, empty Awarness. When you say 'other beings', it's really just part of your visual field.

The outer part of their node in Indras Net (their body) is what is visible in the visual field. The "Interiority" or their Awareness/Consciousness is also directly realized. As yourself. But your True Self, totally empty Impersonal Awareness.

What you think what you are as separate self is obviously not compatible with Absolute Impersonal Pure Awareness, since its "loaded" with identities/properties/I-thoughts and so on.

But the True Impersonal Pure Awareness in which this all arises is the same in other beings as in you. That is why its so important getting to such impersonal Pure Awareness States, because only in these empty/impersonal Pure Awareness states do nondual/Unity states arise and develop without psychedelics. And only in these can the Absolute Nondual Reality be realized. Every other not impersonal empty Pure Awareness state covers the inherent True Nature with clouds of illusion covering it.

 But that must be realized, there is no shortcut describing that fully with words/concepts.

The second part is a good question:

3 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

How to you make the transition, that this aspect of the visual field, for example 'another being', is being experienced by (the same) infinite awarness at the same time, but 'outside' your visual field?

You are not aware of all perspectives manifesting right now. Do you know what you did exactly one year ago? I don't. So we admit forgetting in time.

The challenging part is only admitting that forgetting other perspectives in space is also possible.

That is why the vision of Leavitt is so helpful to understand how Reality/True You manages to do that. And the really interesting part is that he had non-euclidian space (which can hold infinite perspectives) in that vision.

When the full nondual realization is in place it is directly realized and clear anyway. But until then the vision of Leavitt can help keeping oneself open that all others beings are exactly NOT Non-Player-Characters, but YOU. It quiets these doubt-arising about how all beings can be you, lets you rest in Impersonal Pure Awareness, and when these states ripen to nondual states of Pure Impersonal Awareness/boundless nondual Totality, then in these states true realization can happen.

The picture of Leavitt and all these concepts alone, proove nothing of that.

[Loveeee]

@Water by the River

Do you believe in matter too ? 

? I'm half joking I bet some of us here do 

Hey once again let's agree to disagree 

 

[Water by the River]

Just now, Loveeee said:

@Water by the River

Do you believe in matter too ? 

? I'm half joking I bet some of us here do 

Hey once again let's agree to disagree 

 

Matter is an arising/manifestation in Infinite Consciousness. It is not something external/out there indepdendly existing from Consciousness.

Yes, lets do agree to disagree.

Just out of curiosity, because of your questions/implications: Am I a nonplayer character in your perspective? yes or no? Like do I feel pain if you pinch me? Yes or no? Please no evasive answer, a clear yes or no. Thanks.

 

[Breakingthewall]

48 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

When the personal self is gone, what remains is Impersonal Pure Awareness. And that realizes itself to be in all beings, all things, each and every realm, infinite, limitless. That is the true core of all beings, below their arising clouding/illusion of their separate-self arisings. Since there is, was, and ever will be ONLY that

Exactly. That is for me step one, being able to fully open yourself to the total empty existence, without the slightest interpretation, the final reality, the infinite void, the total well that existence is now.

For example, today I did nn dmt, simply out of boredom, I admit?, 50 mg vaped in two tines, very unpleasant for the lungs. The effect is exactly the same as 5meo without the slightest difference, in fact I thought if I confused the substance, and similar than LSD, weed, meditation, and walking down the street. total void opening. nothing to grab, absence of limits. Really, nothing especially interesting anymore, I experience the same without psychedelic: unlimited existence

but after this there is much more to see. The entire reality, each moment of existence, is mystical flow, it is the  cosmos happening. Penetrating this, seeing what this moment is, this reality that is developing, is much more than realizing the essence of reality, it is realizing God. That's why I think there is more in what @Leo Gura is saying that we can get. Just because he explains it extremely bad, seems that he tries to be confusing. But it doesn't mean that he's crazy, there is much more than what is being showed, or I hope that

Edited September 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall