Ralston Gives A Clear Answer To Metaphysical Love Question

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Danioover9000 there is no chocolate that description / definition of Love??

[Osaid]

4 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

Do not assume that it cannot get 10x, 100x more profound after that.

This is dualism. Something is INCREASING. Not Truth. Truth doesn't increase. Profundity is fine, but not necessarily to do with Truth.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Osaid

[Danioover9000]

@Osaid

4 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Yes.

No, but it is exactly that for most people, so that is what he speaks to.

If you are not conscious of what metaphysical love is, and someone tells you about it, it will 100% will be turned into an egoic idea. Because metaphysical love is not an idea, which is why he is careful about it. This is how teaching enlightenment has worked throughout history. They "point" towards things, they don't tell you conclusions.

He is saying that the ego is enticed when hearing the word "love." Meaning, it leads the ego to imagine many enticing ideas.

   So if I'm not conscious of what metaphysical love is, and someone tells me about it, it will 100% be turned into an egoic idea? Does the percentage have to be always 100%? If metaphysical love is not an idea, yet @Leo Gura or Ralston, whoever, is careful about it, and all ideas are only communicated via language, why are we able to communicate about an idea of metaphysical love now, but not the 'real' metaphysical love?

   So teaching enlightenment throughout history consists of the teachers 'pointing' towards things, but don't tell you conclusions?

   What are some examples of the ego imagining enticing things with the word love?

[Danioover9000]

@Kuba Powiertowski

5 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

@Danioover9000 there is no chocolate that description / definition of Love??

   What does chocolate have to do with descriptions of and definitions of love? 

[Danioover9000]

@Francis777

11 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

one thing I think people consistently overlook is consciousness's ability to get ever so increasingly profound no matter how profound your previous realisations of it have been. Just because you have had realisations/awakenings that have absolutely blown your socks off. Do not assume that it cannot get 10x, 100x more profound after that. There's an immediate arrogance that tends to set in as soon as you've had a breakthrough that shatters all previous notions you had of reality. They think oh my god, all this time I was completely wrong, but I can see that now and therefore since I can see that and I can prove it in my direct experience, that now this is it, now I understand everything, if it wasn't the ultimate then I would have never been able to realise it in the first place!

This. Is. An. Assumption.

   Are you referring to Zen Devilry?

[Francis777]

5 minutes ago, Osaid said:

This is dualism. Something is INCREASING. Not Truth. Truth doesn't increase. Profundity is fine, but not necessarily to do with Truth.

Who's talking about dualism?! I don't give a rats ass about dualism! I'm talking about awakening and that just because you awakened to truth on one level. IT DOES NOT MEAN DEEPER LEVELS DO NOT EXIST. 

Levels that completely transcend your previous understanding even though it is still truth at that shallower level.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Danioover9000 all. But that You need to discover for yourSELF

[Osaid]

16 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

So if I'm not conscious of what metaphysical love is, and someone tells me about it, it will 100% be turned into an egoic idea? Does the percentage have to be always 100%? If metaphysical love is not an idea, yet @Leo Gura or Ralston, whoever, is careful about it, and all ideas are only communicated via language, why are we able to communicate about an idea of metaphysical love now, but not the 'real' metaphysical love?

Communicating metaphysical love is like trying to communicate the color red. The communication is never the thing itself.

16 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

So teaching enlightenment throughout history consists of the teachers 'pointing' towards things, but don't tell you conclusions?

Yes, because reality doesn't exist as a conclusion or answer or idea or communication. The medium is wrong. In the same way that the color red doesn't exist as a conclusion or answer or idea or communication.

16 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

What are some examples of the ego imagining enticing things with the word love?

Sex, a hug, a lack of conflict, being useful to someone, etc. Any idea will be something specific and limited, and not it.

Look at what you yourself are imagining. Any of that.
 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Osaid

[lostingenosmaze]

8 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Kuba Powiertowski

   What does chocolate have to do with descriptions of and definitions of love? 

 

1 minute ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

@Danioover9000 all. But that You need to discover for yourSELF

Don't encourage them, more chocolate for the both of us ?

[Osaid]

17 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

Who's talking about dualism?! I don't give a rats ass about dualism! I'm talking about awakening and that just because you awakened to truth on one level. IT DOES NOT MEAN DEEPER LEVELS DO NOT EXIST. 

Levels that completely transcend your previous understanding even though it is still truth at that shallower level.

More of the same. This entire retort is dualism. At some point you guys have somehow convinced yourselves that this "chasing degrees of truth" is not dualistic. You are abandoning this very basic idea of "reality is one."

You are having multiple awakenings, yes. And you are getting specific "insights" or "truths" which you are attempting to piece together, but this whole process is incomplete, because Truth is just one thing. You don't realize it a bunch of times. You don't integrate it or philosophize about it later. You can't refine truth. You either get it or you don't.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Osaid

[Francis777]

3 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Francis777

   Are you referring to Zen Devilry?

No, I'm referring to people denying the possibility of deeper levels of awakening just because there last one was ineffably profound.

but yes if someone were to teach with this assumption with intent to mislead/create followers by saying they are completely awake, that would be zen devilry, not even zen just straight devilry. 

[Francis777]

18 minutes ago, Osaid said:

More of the same. At some point you guys have somehow convinced yourselves that this "chasing degrees of truth" is not dualistic. You are abandoning this very basic idea of "reality is one."

You are having multiple awakenings, yes. And you are getting specific "insights" or "truths" which you are attempting to piece together, but this whole process is incomplete, because Truth is just one thing. You don't realize it a bunch of times. You don't integrate it or philosophize about it later. You can't refine truth. You either get it or you don't.

I give up, your so deep in your non dualistic excrement that the only person who can pull you out of it is you.

you agree with infinity by your own definition, but you can't even grasp it conceptually.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Francis777

[Osaid]

6 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

you agree with infinity by your own admission, but you can't even grasp it conceptually.

I think it's the other way around, and what is happening is that your mind is conceiving infinity as "infinite experiences" or "infinite truths" or "infinite understanding" or something of the sort.

"If reality is infinite, that means it can understand itself forever, therefore all the awakenings are Truth." This type of sentiment.

I think the above is how I used to reconcile Leo's awakenings, until I became enlightened.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Osaid

[Francis777]

@Osaid ok man, enjoy

[Inliytened1]

On 9/11/2023 at 8:51 PM, BlessedLion said:

Yes, and consciousness is present in all states, as much as I want to believe everything is love, it isn't always present, or at least I don't see it at all times.

 

However, it's hard to think that Ramana, Christ, Rumi, Rupert, Sadguru, Adyashanti, and Ken Wilber are all deluded about Love is being the universal force

i had some massive natural awakenings over a few months period, but not one of them said to me, reality is Love.  That said, all of it was Love without being said.    It didn't need to be.  @Water by the River is very on par wiith his explanation.

But the final and most massive of them all is that all of this was my dream as God, as I was in God consciousness at the time.   All other were held within the my mind as God, not the ego.   But there is nothing outside of my direct consciousness and no objective reality, as it is identical to a dream.  This was the most satisfying of all my awakenings, but also the most terrifying to the ego.    So it was a double edged sword.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

@Inliytened1 you should write poetry instead of truth, its clear which one you care about more

actually @Water by the River has a lot more patience than I do for fancy explanations.  I'm very much like Leo in that regard.  Straight and to the point, which was why his style always resonated.  But you guys have to learn to think for yourselves and know when to move away from a teacher.   If you can't directly validate something, don't take it as true. And don't ever make any teacher your authority.  Leo transcended all human teachings, and so should you.   But there are guys here still stuck on following him off a cliff if he went, and that's scary.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Francis777]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

i had some massive natural awakenings over a few months period, but not one of them said to me, reality is Love.  That said, all of it was Love without being said.    It didn't need to be.

you should write poetry instead of truth, its clear which one you care about more

[Yimpa]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But there are guys here still stuck on following him off a cliff if he went, and that's scary.

Lol!

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

Lol!

I'm not kidding.  And i want to ask someone a question.....

@Loveeee Do you mind telling me what awakenings you have had?  I will tell you mine.  If you don't feel like it, that's fine too.

It just seems like you put a lot of faith into Leo's teachings, but have you validated anything for yourself?  That's why i was asking the question earlier, when leo answered for you,   Again, I'm not denying that Love is God - but in not one of my awakenings did I become direclty conscious of this, and I have become conscious of a lot of things.   This wasn't one, but I felt the Love of God in all of my awakenings, and I feel the Love of God and Reality everywhere I go now.   In fact, i believe it was the human emotion of Love, and of suffering from that loss of love, that led to my enlightenment.   Love is Being itself.  But for me it wasn't like any of my awakenings where I had a specific insight that God was Love.  Maybe I just haven't had that awakening yet, and I'm open to it.  But i think all of my awakening is done, because it is final, as I mentioned, if it is natural.  If it is natural, you will actually wake up from the dream, which can't be done more than once.  It was a single event, but it was spread out over a 2-3 month period in which i spontanenously would shift into mystical states of consciousness.  So it is still in a sense a single event because it can't happen again.   That's why @Osaid is stating that Leo is not enlightened, and I hate to say this but I have to agree with him.   It's a very final thing.  I can't "wake up again" at this point.  I still have moments where I feel it coming on - and it will wash over me sometimes - but it has already happened, so it's more just a feeling that i will have the permanent awakening at some point down the line, which is permanent death of the idea of the human i am, and the ego, (the body is held within the mind) and a subsequent melting into Absolute Infinity.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Inliytened1

[UnbornTao]

Banana!