Ralston Gives A Clear Answer To Metaphysical Love Question

[Vido]

@Leo Gura x D hagagagag

 

i feel love does exist, just do shrooms, and watch the video on self love when tripping. Easy

[Bufo Alvarius]

7 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

The statements mentioned are all correct. It refers to the Manifested Side of Infinite Consciousness/Absolute, or appearance/arising/form. And that can be called existence. 

From my perspective, no contradiction anywhere. These views can all be integrated.  

But the Absolute and the Manifest are one Totality, one Wholeness that cannot be seperated. How can you say then, that the Absolute is not also Unconditional Love, or that it is something that can be somehow reduced/turned off?

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not doing this for you. I doing this for me, so I could eradicate your ignorance from my mind. I don't care if you continue to live in it. I will live in a different reality from you. And to do that I must stop taking anything you say seriously. Don't take it personally. It's not you, it's every human idea on this planet.

Well, I believe that we are all clear and know how to differentiate between the conceptual, mental maps, and direct reality. Do you really need that strategy to eliminate spiritual garbage from your mind? This automatically implies that your content is influenced by acquired ideas. Spiritual ideas have only one function, to help the mental structure to completely dissolve without the addictive need to hold on to anything. From here, we start exploring. If not, everything is corrupted

[Water by the River]

17 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

But the Absolute and the Manifest are one Totality, one Wholeness that cannot be seperated. How can you say then, that the Absolute is not also Unconditional Love, or that it is something that can be somehow reduced/turned off?

For the Totality/Wholeness of the Absolute and Manifest aspect: The gold (Absolute) and the ring (manifested side of the Absolute/arising/appearance) made out of gold metaphor. It is a Infinite Unity and Totality. Always gold, but the ring can appear or be gone. The nature/essence of the ring is gold. But not the other way round.

And for equating anything with the Absolute (and not with its manifest side or potential): The Absolute is truly Infinite. It is neither this nor that, not even love. It is beyond it all. It couldn't be any different. It is your true BEING, but not what you think your being is right now.

Realize it, then you will understand. The Absolute is beyond it all. If you would understand it, you would be enlightened right now. It can't be communicated in words. Once you start intuiting/realizing it, it will be totally clear. 

Where was unconditional love in deep sleep? Before your birth? After your death? These are all Koans that pointing directly to your truly Infinite Absolute Nature, which is literally right here right now, but covered under a myriad of clouds of mistaken identities (thoughts/feelings). These Koans have a very clear answer, just not one that can be carried with words and language/duality.

A good approximation is: The Absolute is both totally empty (undescribeable) and also infinite potential. The Infinite Potential contains the potential for unconditional love, expressed then in the manifested side of the Absolute/Infinite Consciousness. But that is already to much concepts.

The referent of the signifier must be there: Realization of the Absolute in an awakened state. That is then called Enlightenment (the full&final one). Sorry, language ends somewhere here.

 

Maybe one more idea/metaphor:

• The blind men describing the elephant: One says its a hose, one says a trunk, and so on. The facets of Awakening.
• If the elephant is the manifested side of consciousness, then the whole (infinite) elephant has love as its essence so to say. Because fundamentally it is a nondual Unity. And where there is an other, there is fear (Upanishads somewhere). And if there is no other (nondual infinite unity), there is only love.
• And the Absolute would be the spaceless locationless unmanifest (no body, center, location, anything. FULLY EMPTY) Awareness of the elephant, "seeing itself", but also in nondual union with it. The gold from the ring-metaphor and the elephant the ring.
• And if the elephant is zapped out of existence, the Absolute Awareness is neither aware of the elephant, nor (and that is important) of itself. There is no time, no space, no nothing. But the POTENTIAL for sentience/awareness. Unaware of itself.
• But as soon as the elephant arises/manifests again (with love as its essence, see above), Absolute Awareness "sees" again - love. So it can only manifest as metaphysical love so to say. And now make elephant infinite (no boundaries) limitless... And there can only be love! Yet the Absolute can not be defined with love (only). Not even with (Self-)Consciousness/Awareness, since that doesn't happen when nothing arises/manifests. But with potential for Awareness if something arises.
• And since the separate-self-contraction is perfectly capable of clouding over the original state of infinite love&bliss (resulting from nondual infinite unity, aka "no other"), instead of doing all these metaphysical conceptual word-games, it would be better to sit down and practice cutting off the mindstream with all its illusion-arisings of the separate-self-contraction.  And become empty nondual infinite impersonal Awareness itself. Then love will flow freely anyway, which is all that counts.

Ok, now a Zen-Master or two are probably going to kill me....

Edited September 15, 2023 by Water by the River

[Francis777]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Okay, you guys have fun. I have lost my desire to share my pearls here.

Ya'll are enlightened kings and love does not exist.

Don’t go, there are still people on here who are willing to drop their assumptions 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

Don’t go, there are still people on here who are willing to drop their assumptions 

Too late. I'll catch you elsewhere.

[Yimpa]

Let’s not be attached to Leo Gura and learn to walk on our own alien feet.

[Someone here]

Guys ..please humble yourselves and show some respect to Leo . Don't assume that you are more enlightened than him .the guy is probably one of the most intelligent people to ever live . He has done thousands of hours of spiritual and philosophical work . You don't understand awakening better than him . It's a privilege that you are even to talk to him everyday on this forum .a guy like him should put a pay wall on his content and not speak to you.  But loon how he engages with  you everyday on this free forum . Please honor him and stop wasting his precious time. I'm being serious. 

[Osaid]

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

So love is so fundamental that as soon as any manifestation arises it is there. One could say that the Absolute is love. But on the other side it is not, since the Absolute can be without any arising. So its a question of what is more fundamental. And since the realization of this Absolute is the all deciding "point", a pointer saying the Absolute is love is rejected as a non-efficient pointer by most enlightened persons. Yet, it is a very difficult topic, because one could validly say that the Absolute is maybe not love, but its first manifestation is love, the essence of any manifestation is love, the essence of any possible world is love, love is what got the whole game going and what makes the Universe evolve back to its source, grow in complexity so that it can realize its own Unity in the form of enlightened beings.

I disagree with this. Anything that exists is supported by "metaphysical love" in the very fact of it's existence. And you don't experience non-existence, you just experience a lack of qualia, which is possible. You might just be using the term Love differently, but it does not spawn or radiate from anything, because that is describing a process. It is just everything always. This is the metaphysical Love Leo points to.

I consider non-manifestation to be simply a specific state of consciousness like drinking a cup of tea. It is just a state of consciousness which is mystical and lacks all qualia, which makes it easier to see what you are. But it's not that "Love" stops existing there, because it is still something experienced.

Non-existence doesn't happen, therefore a rebooting of "Love" doesn't happen. The experience of 0 qualia is not non-existence, it is an experience of nothing. The experience of a lack of qualia is itself a manifestation that consciousness becomes.

There isn't a "first manifestation" because that creates a duality of something that isn't manifested.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Osaid

[Osaid]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Guys ..please humble yourselves and show some respect to Leo . Don't assume that you are more enlightened than him .the guy is probably one of the most intelligent people to ever live . He has done thousands of hours of spiritual and philosophical work . You don't understand awakening better than him . It's a privilege that you are even to talk to him everyday on this forum .a guy like him should put a pay wall on his content and not speak to you.  But loon how he engages with  you everyday on this free forum . Please honor him and stop wasting his precious time. I'm being serious.

He is very intelligent. I'm not discrediting any of his work per say, it's really beautiful stuff. But he's not enlightened. I feel a need to state this or people will be misguided.

I also think I am being respectful, unless you have suggestions on how to improve there.

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Osaid said:

He is very intelligent. I'm not discrediting any of his work per say, it's really beautiful stuff. But he's not enlightened. I feel a need to state this or people will be misguided.

I also think I am being respectful, unless you have suggestions on how to improve there.

He is deeply "enlightened ". If you are talking about the classical no-self Buddhist stuff ..he already knows all that shit and have videos on classical Neo-Advaitan enlightenment from 2014 to 2016 . He has transcended this shit and he is talking about levels of consciousness that no human being have ever accessed.  And he basically have transcended all "humanness ". I'm not kissing his ass.. im just stating a truth.  You guys are full of it when you argue with him  about those niggly little details. He already knows all of that and wants to take you to higher realizations. But it falls on deaf ears apparently. 

 

[Princess Arabia]

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Guys ..please humble yourselves and show some respect to Leo . Don't assume that you are more enlightened than him .the guy is probably one of the most intelligent people to ever live . He has done thousands of hours of spiritual and philosophical work . You don't understand awakening better than him . It's a privilege that you are even to talk to him everyday on this forum .a guy like him should put a pay wall on his content and not speak to you.  But loon how he engages with  you everyday on this free forum . Please honor him and stop wasting his precious time. I'm being serious. 

If I knew how to quote a previous quote and insert it in this one I would show you how this statement is just a bunch of balony coming from you. You tried to belittled Leo not too long ago with belittling statements you made towards him. Maybe ill try to find it and try to paste it. There's a difference between respecting someone and their work and finding it admirable, useful and valuable and putting someone up on a pedestal, which is what your statement has implied.

[Water by the River]

10 minutes ago, Osaid said:

 

I disagree with this. Anything that exists is supported by "metaphysical love" in the very fact of it's existence. And you don't experience non-existence, you just experience a lack of qualia, which is possible. You might just be using the term Love differently, but it does not spawn or radiate from anything, because that is describing a process. It is just everything always. This is the metaphysical Love Leo points to.

I consider non-manifestation to be simply a specific state of consciousness like drinking a cup of tea. It is just a state of consciousness which is mystical and lacks all qualia, which makes it easier to see what you are. But it's not that "Love" stops existing there, because it is still something experienced.

Non-existence doesn't happen, therefore a rebooting of "Love" doesn't happen. The experience of 0 qualia is not non-existence, it is an experience of nothing. The experience of a lack of qualia is itself a manifestation that consciousness becomes.

There isn't a "first manifestation" because that creates a duality of something that isn't manifested.

I don't disagree with what you write. Language gets very slippery here, and it depends on the individual definitions of the words.

okay, so lets go through it:

Anything that exists is supported by "metaphysical love" in the very fact of it's existence.: Agree

And you don't experience non-existence, you just experience a lack of qualia, which is possible: Agree

You might just be using the term Love differently, but it does not spawn or radiate from anything, because that is describing a process. It is just everything always. This is the metaphysical Love Leo points to.: Agree. As soon as there is any manifestation, there is love.

I consider non-manifestation to be simply a specific state of consciousness like drinking a cup of tea.:Agree

It is just a state of consciousness which is mystical and lacks all qualia, which makes it easier to see what you are: Very much agree

But it's not that "Love" stops existing there, because it is still something experienced.: partly agree, there are states where experience stops

The experience of 0 qualia is not non-existence, it is an experience of nothing. The experience of a lack of qualia is itself a manifestation that consciousness becomes.: Here language gets slippery. I know what you mean, but I wouldnt write it that way. But its fine.
 

There isn't a "first manifestation" because that creates a duality of something that isn't manifested.: Agree

 

I believe good pointers to the Absolute are pointers that avoid confusing the Absolute with anything, because then the mind will try to make an object or arising of whatever form out of it.

 

[Someone here]

@Princess Arabia leave me alone .

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Princess Arabia leave me alone .

Leave your mind alone. 

[gettoefl]

god doesn't exist! but nor does god not exist

god isn't everything but god isn't nothing either

these are all silly mind games you need to see through

god is the set of all stuff mind understands plus the set of all stuff mind does not understand

[Osaid]

4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

I believe good pointers to the Absolute are pointers that avoid confusing the Absolute with anything, because then the mind will try to make an object or arising of whatever form out of it.

My point is just that this "metaphysical love" is pointing to whatever is always the case. So it should just be assumed that it accounts for all experience.

When you communicate, the mind will always make something out of it. Not gonna escape that. It's best then that the mind is simply guided towards what is real instead of ideas about what is real. I probably wouldn't say much of this if I was genuinely trying to guide someone towards enlightenment, but this forum only deals in the vocabulary that Leo has come up with, so I feel the need to touch on it I guess. Subjective in the end.

Personally wouldn't say anything ever "stops" because that is straight up a duality, and I find this to be a confusing pointer. You do you though.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Osaid

[Osaid]

27 minutes ago, Someone here said:

he already knows all that shit and have videos on classical Neo-Advaitan enlightenment from 2014 to 2016

That's basically the problem. He only knows it. Never experienced it. You can't know it. There's not gonna be an enlightenment 2.0 or Truth 2.0 that comes after "classical" enlightenment.

28 minutes ago, Someone here said:

He has transcended this shit and he is talking about levels of consciousness that no human being have ever accessed.  And he basically have transcended all "humanness ". I'm not kissing his ass.. im just stating a truth.  You guys are full of it when you argue with him  about those niggly little details. He already knows all of that and wants to take you to higher realizations. But it falls on deaf ears apparently. 

Since you like knowing, I wanted to ask, how do you know this?
 

[Yimpa]

I agree that water is indeed wet.

[Water by the River]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I agree that water is indeed wet.