Ralston Gives A Clear Answer To Metaphysical Love Question

[Water by the River]

4 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Leo reached awakenings no one of you have ever reached. He is gaslightened by ignorant people all the time, I think that makes you bitter. So dont be confused of emotional states and look for what he is trying to explain (which is very hard, because you need to get there on your own) . 

Excuse me   ?! But there are others that get critcized and attacked at least as much (or more). And apparently they are able to stay respectful, compassionate and loving, even though they are not pushing love as an Absolute. But as an utmost important property of the awakened mind-stream, the basis of any ongoing nondual awakening. Very very close to the Absolute, and the first manifestation of it.

Truth can stand on its own perfectly fine. Truth survives all lies and misunderstanding. Truth is that which always was, always is, and ever will be true. Or the case. Just because it is true, and because Truth is defined like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth

And compassion & love promoting this Truth also stays compassionate and loving all the time. If it is true love and compassion. The Love of Reality can not easily be shaken, which is what Leo agrees on in pushing it in such a strong manner. On which we agree.

The only thing that pushes "its" truth in a not so lovingly and compassionate manner is.... you guessed it: Ego. 

And for gaslighting: How can Truth be gaslit if it is truth? A Truth that is self-evident and always in reach as soon as "one" reaches out and touches "it", being IT?  "Truth" can  only be gaslit if that "truth" and its proponent needs confirmation, acclamation, emotional & intellectual agreement & support, money, business, whatever. Anything of Maslows Pyramid up and down.

Truth can stand perfectly fine on its own. And Absolute Truth and Love can also absolutely fine stand on its own.

Although it probably hurts, because Leo has produced a lot of amazing stuff (and I agree with Inlightened1 here, until around Infinity of Gods): To judge a path, congruity between walk & talk tells a lot... That is called conduct with which one lives ones life. Which is the utmost spiritual test of any claimed realization/awakening. 

There is a low chance that a follower will end up more loving, compassionate, wiser and happier than his/her teacher.

Water by the River

 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

There is a low chance that a follower will end up more loving, compassionate, wiser and happier than his/her teacher.

That's why I make it easy for you guys, by being an asshole

When are you going to realize that I don't care about the spiritual things you have been taught to care about?

That can be quite an epiphany for you. If you are openminded enough to have it.

While you have been busy acting compassionate, I have been busy exploring the consciousness of a psychopath. They don't teach you that in Buddha-school.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, Loveeee said:

Name one delusion of his ?

Genuine question

I don't understand what you guys are disagreeing about 

For example you seem to refute intelligence but don't you see you need a lot of it to understand and play with God's mind ?

5 hours ago, Loveeee said:

Name one delusion of his

Alien consciousness.   And I'm with Ralston on the Love bit.  Leo is afraid of non-dual teachings and Buddhism corrupting you and preventing enlightenment- but he got his notions of Love as an Absolute from those very same teachings.   He thinks enlightenment is a delusion - and that's his delusion.   If he had the chance to put àll of the psychedelics down for just one natural awakening I guarantee he would do it.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

but he got his notions of Love as an Absolute from those very same teachings.

What I got no human teaching could ever give.

Which is why I act as I do. And why you act as you do.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura can you somehow give us a hint ot taste or any idea that your  alien consciousness is worth it for a lets say normal human being with a good human life? Or is it just for special Explorers? Like diving into the ocean is just for special people? 

[Water by the River]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

While you have been busy acting compassionate, I have been busy exploring the consciousness of a psychopath. They don't teach you that in Buddha-school.

If the consciousness of a psychopath and its emanations float your boat, perfectly fine. Good luck staying in awakened states sobre with the states that the psychopath-exploration-mindstream brings with it.

And for all the importance of love you are proclaiming: Rolling out the side-effects of that exploration of psychpath-consciousness on your audience appears to cause a bit of confusion among the audience, and will harm some for sure.

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When are you going to realize that I don't care about the spiritual things you have been taught to care about?

You will care about the suffering that this mindset & its actions bring.

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's why I make it easy for you guys, by being an asshole

Make it harder. 

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What I got no human teaching could ever give.

Which is why I act as I do. And why you act as you do.

Good - but that's precisely why one should trust no human, not even himself,    so no, i don't act the way i do because of human teachings - quite the contrary.  So you should be shaking my hand

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Bufo Alvarius]

Consciousness is both, it is one Truth always accessible, and it also comes in degrees of intensity. 

Just like a ray of sun can realize that light is its fundamental nature, while moving closer back to the source/sun, it can merge with its source to a greater degree and hence realize/radiate/embody more of its own intensity.

And yes, light is still its fundamental nature at all times. But not all the light is accessible at all times, for example when the light of consciousness is broken through the 5 sense prism/aggregates called human experience. 

It should give you to think, what teachings like 'The Course in Miracles' or all the NDE reports bring back, @Osaid you dismissed them way to easily as just being ephemeral and something that is solely hold in memory. In particular NDE'lers report that what you are right now, is already fundamentally unconditional love, just that when consciousness unties of the filters of human perception (like upon death), a much greater degree of that unconditional love is accessible to itself. 

Just like LuciaLorn teaches, awareness is present in all experience, but consciousness can begin to unfold/open up to the greater expanse of its infinite wholeness. 

So Consciousness (as in the fundamental nature) and the degree of it's own intensity are one and cannot be reduced to just its fundamental nature.

This is where Peter Ralsont has not become conscious of the degree of light/unconditional love that he can radiate as / embody / realize (and where I agree with @Leo Gura) , because his consciousness, like all of us, is limited by the 5 sense prism, which allows to fully realize your true nature itself, as absolute consciousness, but is limited to which degree your true nature (as unconditional love) can be realized / shine forth.

You are the Absolute, but the degree to which you radiate as unconditional love varies depending the limitations you have placed upon yourself. And that unconditional love is not something the Absolute is manifesting, but it's the very quality of itself. I know @Water by the River that you write that the Absolute manifests the Infinite Singularity, as in giving birth to it. This is where I would like to differ, and just as LuciaLorn wrote, the Absolute shines forth as Unconditional Love/the Infinite Singularity, those two have never been separate, they are one and always have been. Just like the Yin/Yang sign portraits.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Bufo Alvarius

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, Osaid said:

No, it's a bigger contention than that. I'm saying he's not enlightened, which is why he disagrees with me and Ralston.

What I have said from the beginning of this thread is probably worth reading first, but it is long.

If there is one argument I want people take away from this thread to focus on, which I don't think Leo can really refute, it's just this:

If reality is one, then you can't realize truth twice. This is impossible.

There can't be "two truths" or "more truths" or "multiple truths being realized" or "higher consciousness" or "deeper awakenings" or "more awake." There is one realization that is true throughout all of existence, and that is enlightenment. Either you get it or you don't. 

Truth cannot depend on memory or imagination or past experiences, as these are relative features of reality. 

Also be wary of the usage of dualistic terms to describe truth. "Higher consciousness", "deeper awakening", "more awake", etc. These are dualistic and anthropomorphic terms and thus can't have anything to do with truth since truth is absolute.

Truth is not something that has to be refined, integrated or understood over time. The fact that there are any misunderstandings should be a big red flag. This means that the method of accessing truth is corrupted. If you are constantly "refining truth" and having "deeper awakenings", it should be contemplated how this is even possible in the first place.

The states which allow you to view enlightenment temporarily are being put on a pedestal. Hence, "higher-consciousness states", hence "more understanding", hence "chasing truth forever." There is a phenomenon happening here where people are clinging to enlightenment-inducing states. States that are intense, frightening, profound, tear-jerking, and the rest of the dualisms.

I am not saying that all of the truths from Leo's awakenings are false or anything like that, I've made no such claim, but it's more the case that all the truths he's trying to piece together paradoxically fit together into one singular insight, or something of that sort, and then that is enlightenment. So I am not necessarily discrediting everything. Don't take this as that. At the very least, just look at it with an open mind and contemplate.

 

Exactly- This is precisely why I have stated in the past that you either wake up from the dream or you don't.  When you do, it is final.  There isn't a waking up deeper.  When you wake up from your night time dreams you wake up.  You don't say to yourself wow - I can go back into the dream and wake up deeper next time.

[Water by the River]

3 hours ago, Loveeee said:

There's a downward direction to awakening which brings your mind to zero, zen style, it's valid but there's also the upward, not "just mind" but infinite mind

That is how it looks like when one has not reached Full Enlightenment. 

Full Enlightenment is the realization of what everything is (Reality), and what oneself truly is. By BEING it. He thinks he has it with his Awakenings, but I agree with Inlightened1 and Osaid that he confuses the lower with the higher.

Leo is busy engaging in the exploration of that which is already manifestation and form, although of the higher/highest realms of the manifestation of consciousness. But still manifestation occuring IN the Absolute and not being/realizing Absolute itself by being it fully and truly. Impersonal.

And that exploration can easily become an addiction and disfunction. To ease the suffering of the ego/self-contraction that is not transcended. Hence, no Awakening in sobrestates , because the self-contraction is in the way and not cut off/transcended fast enough in real time. No nondual awakened states sobre, because the untranscended self-contraction/ego prevents it. And guess what this untranscended separate-self/ego is doing in AWAKENINGS? Misinterpreting the Awakening, and what the true self really is. Although it doesn't see that all these Awakenings are interpreted though the lense that the self-contraction constitutes. Ego = God.

Wilber on that in Religion of the Future. Chapter Dysfunctions of the 3rd-Tier Structure-Views, Violet Meta-Mind:

"The “visionary” nature of the violet meta-mind is fundamentally due to the growing perception that the entire Kosmos is indeed a coenaction of consciousness itself, and the present given universe, as normally perceived, is merely one of hundreds or even thousands (or more) of other worlds (and this, indeed, is one interpretation of the string theory of modern physics). On the one hand (from one perspective), these are all different aspects of One World; on the other (from another perspective), they are all completely separate and different worlds altogether. Individuals often have the sense that they can “penetrate” or “step into” one or more of these other dimensions —the world is just such a wildly open, transparent, diaphanous, sheer, gossamer, filmy place that one can walk right through it and intoother worlds. And the Present moment itself is often the doorway; it is not by “transcending” temporal duration entirely that one can penetrate to an alternative reality but by entering into this Present with more and more Presence. One can step deeply enough into the timeless Now to step into another dimension altogether—just step right here, and push hard.

It’s easy to get lost in those worlds, which are, at bottom, simply different dimensions and perspectives of one’s own (violet) consciousness (although, as noted, from another angle, they are all real, ontologically different realms because they are each genuinely co-enacted by a different perspective in consciousness). Given that this stage is the first great transition from “earthly” realms to “heavenly” realms (as a permanent structural enaction), getting lost in these “higher worlds” is indeed one of the most common dysfunctions of this level. The deeply transcendental, otherworldly, electrically visionary nature of consciousness at this altitude makes fixation to this side of the street an incredibly inviting and alluring venture. This is likely to couple with the dysfunction, discussed earlier, of standing in heaven and giving a blistering critique of life here on earth, with all the semiprophetic pomp and pomposity that comes with it."

And for the claim that no one has reached or explored what Leo tells about with all the Alien Awakening and so on stuff, because no one is telling/writing about it. I disagree here: Maybe check Harri Aalto, Christopher Bache, David Buckland, Stanislaf Grof and Jürgen Ziewe (and his descriptions of the Superrealms). And many others more on request.

I have not seen one fundamentally and structurally really new description of the explorations he claims that has not been described before. I doubt he  has read much about other explorers of these realms, and that is why he thinks he is the only AWAKE.

And when he claims he is the most AWAKE on the planet: Little Public Relations-recommendation: The most awake on the planet of all those he knows, read or heard about. Or better claim clairvoyant skills (able to judge each person on the planet) right from the beginning.

Water by the River

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Water by the River

[Water by the River]

16 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

I know @Water by the River that you write that the Absolute manifests the Infinite Singularity, as in giving birth to it. This is where I would like to differ, and just as LuciaLorn wrote, the Absolute shines forth as Unconditional Love/the Infinite Singularity, those two have never been separate, they are one and always have been. Just like the Yin/Yang sign portraits.

With that quote from LuciaLorn I agree, because SHINING forth AS something is describing manifestation of the Infinite Absolute. One of the first manifestations and roll-out patterns for any realm/manifestation/world: Love. And of course the Infinite Singularity/Absolute is always one and always has been one with love. The essence of love is the Absolute, gold and ring metaphor.

The Absolute doesn't manifest the Infinite SIngularity, IT IS the infinite Singularity, without an opposite to it.

The One without a second. Not just the One. That is why in the end you can describe its manifestations, but you can not limit the Absolute by putting any (duality) word/label on IT which it is supposed to be. A word only has meaning in terms of its opposite (language IS duality), the Absolute HAS no opposite. Reality has no opposite. That would limit it.

So the manifestations of the Absolute have properties, tendencies and so on, and its even ok to say that the Absolute has the tendencies to manifest in certain ways/patterns (like love). But saying the Absolute IS love is a mistake, because that would limit it.

The Absolute is beyond all of that. And the hallmark of True Enlightenment is exactly realizing that, and not deviating one Iota from that. As soon as labels gets put on the Absolute as being this or that:  "This or That" is a "facet" of the Absolute, an "experience"/"Awakening" of it: The blind touching the elephant and proclaiming something about its manifestations (trunk, ears, legs ...). But not truly BEING the whole elephant.

There are more or less good pointers (like Nothingness, Infinite Consciousness, Absolute love, and so on) that drop being near to the summit of the mountain. But they ALL FAIL on the final step, Full Enlightenment (including Nothingness and Love and Infinite Consciousness). The final step is becoming IT, or realizing that one has always been IT, and not the clouds of the former ignorant illusion-separate-self. Death of former identity. And of all labels.

[Water by the River]

38 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

Just like LuciaLorn teaches, awareness is present in all experience, but consciousness can begin to unfold/open up to the greater expanse of its infinite wholeness. 

So Consciousness (as in the fundamental nature) and the degree of it's own intensity are one and cannot be reduced to just its fundamental nature.

Very true. See also Harri Aalto for that. But this reduction of Consciousness to "baseline/fundamental/nothing nature" is done by Leo, not by those truly enlightened.

Reality/Infinite Consciousness IS everything, every realm, every manifestation, literally. So how can that be reduced to "baseline"?

Nothingness, highlighting the impersonal nature of Absolute Consciousness, is just a teaching tool, a pointer.

There are all kinds of celestial refined visions of how exactly Reality/Infinite Consciousness creates Reality on the fly, see Haari Aalto or David Buckland. So claiming that Full Enlightenment reduces everything to baseline consciousness (and that Leo is exploring the higher areas of the x-axis) is just wrong. But a necessary move made by Leo to declare the lower the higher and vise-versa.

I am sure you would like the book by Harri Aalto "The Landscape of Enlightenment: With Doors and Windows to Our World". Enlightened as a child, consciousness in deep sleep as early adult, and now seeing via celestial vision/refined perception exactly HOW Reality/Infinite Consciousness creates this world on the fly, its mechanisms and endless realms/dimensions. Without psychedelics.

All of that stuff that fascinates Leo, but Harri Aalto has that on a permanent ongoing basis, plus Full Enlightenment. Being the elephant and not only touching its facets part-time, but being aware of the manifestation-mechanism and endless realms sobre. There are cases of that in all spiritual traditions, across all times. One just has to look...

[Water by the River]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

No, it's a bigger contention than that. I'm saying he's not enlightened, which is why he disagrees with me and Ralston.

What I have said from the beginning of this thread is probably worth reading first, but it is long.

If there is one argument I want people take away from this thread to focus on, which I don't think Leo can really refute, it's just this:

If reality is one, then you can't realize truth twice. This is impossible.

There can't be "two truths" or "more truths" or "multiple truths being realized" or "higher consciousness" or "deeper awakenings" or "more awake." There is one realization that is true throughout all of existence, and that is enlightenment. Either you get it or you don't. 

Truth cannot depend on memory or imagination or past experiences, as these are relative features of reality. 

Also be wary of the usage of dualistic terms to describe truth. "Higher consciousness", "deeper awakening", "more awake", etc. These are dualistic and anthropomorphic terms and thus can't have anything to do with truth since truth is absolute.

Truth is not something that has to be refined, integrated or understood over time. The fact that there are any misunderstandings should be a big red flag. This means that the method of accessing truth is corrupted. If you are constantly "refining truth" and having "deeper awakenings", it should be contemplated how this is even possible in the first place.

The states which allow you to view enlightenment temporarily are being put on a pedestal. Hence, "higher-consciousness states", hence "more understanding", hence "chasing truth forever." There is a phenomenon happening here where people are clinging to enlightenment-inducing states. States that are intense, frightening, profound, tear-jerking, and the rest of the dualisms.

I am not saying that all of the truths from Leo's awakenings are false or anything like that, I've made no such claim, but it's more the case that all the truths he's trying to piece together paradoxically fit together into one singular insight, or something of that sort, and then that is enlightenment. So I am not necessarily discrediting everything. Don't take this as that. At the very least, just look at it with an open mind and contemplate.

Beautifully written.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura can you somehow give us a hint ot taste or any idea that your  alien consciousness is worth it for a lets say normal human being with a good human life? Or is it just for special Explorers? Like diving into the ocean is just for special people? 

It's worth it if you're interested in Consciousness for its own sake. Don't expect it to help you live in the human realm. In fact it will probably hurt in that department.

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

If the consciousness of a psychopath and its emanations float your boat, perfectly fine. Good luck staying in awakened states sobre with the states that the psychopath-exploration-mindstream brings with it.

It's not it floats my boat, it's just the natural consequences of seriously investigating Consciousness. You never know what you'll find. Maybe you'll become a psychopath, maybe an angel, maybe a devil, maybe an alien.

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

And for all the importance of love you are proclaiming: Rolling out the side-effects of that exploration of psychpath-consciousness on your audience appears to cause a bit of confusion among the audience, and will harm some for sure.

How deep is your love if you have not integrated psychopathy? Your love is very biased and human.

55 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Gopd - but that's precisely why one should trust no human, not even himself,    so no, i don't act the way i do because of human teachings - quite the contrary.  So you should be shaking my hand

I would like to shake your claw when you get one

55 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

This is where Peter Ralsont has not become conscious of the degree of light/unconditional love that he can radiate as / embody / realize (and where I agree with @Leo Gura) , because his consciousness, like all of us, is limited by the 5 sense prism, which allows to fully realize your true nature itself, as absolute consciousness, but is limited to which degree your true nature (as unconditional love) can be realized / shine forth.

You are the Absolute, but the degree to which you radiate as unconditional love varies depending the limitations you have placed upon yourself.

I am not even talking about radiating love at this point. I'm just trying to make sure you guys become conscious of what it is first.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

What I got no human teaching could ever give

17 hours ago, gettoefl said:

 

I have always thought that you were pointing to something never seen before, but your attitude again and again points to a kind of psychotic break. Since you seem an extremely smart person, the fact that you seem extremely stupid lately makes me think of some kind of strategy, a game, and that at some point something great will come up... but then, again and again just vagueness, negativity, self-aggrandizement... Why not explain yourself thoroughly and transparently at once? Or is there really nothing to explain? enigma. 

Why destructively disqualify traditions like Buddhism without giving even the slightest explanation of what is wrong with Buddhism? or repeat over and over again that enlightenment is stupid without even explaining what enlightenment is and why it is stupid? There are many people watching. Is your intention to appear senile? Why?

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

I am not saying that all of the truths from Leo's awakenings are false or anything like that, I've made no such claim, but it's more the case that all the truths he's trying to piece together paradoxically fit together into one singular insight, or something of that sort, and then that is enlightenment.

There is absolutely no way you could receive all the insight I've had into Consciousness is a single event, even a single day.

I have puddles of blood and shit on my floors from just a couple of my awakenings. A couple out of 500.

I would not believe if you told me you got it in a single month after 30 days of breakthroughs. I would tell you there's still way more you're missing.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not it floats my boat, it's just the natural consequences of seriously investigating Consciousness. You never know what you'll find. Maybe you'll become a psychopath, maybe an angel, maybe a devil, maybe an alien.

Depends on the being doing the investigation of Consciousness and its Karma.

But the psychopath will be beaten by Reality via suffering until he develops more towards the end of the axis where the angel is placed (hopefully to at least some basic level of compassion/love), and preferably an enlightened on.

And when you teach that kind of exploration/path to suffering/psychopath please put a big warning lable on top of it, and don't praise it as the highest goal/value of consciousness exploration or summum bonum AWAKENING n+1. Nobody with any spiritual wisdom wants to risk becoming a psychopath.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I have always thought that you were pointing to something never seen before, but your attitude again and again points to a kind of psychotic break.

How many psychotic gurus have you seen?

Why are you so biased against psychotic breaks?

Quote

Since you seem an extremely smart person, the fact that you seem extremely stupid lately makes me think of some kind of strategy, a game, and that at some point something great will come up... but then, again and again just vagueness, negativity, self-aggrandizement... Why not explain yourself thoroughly and transparently at once? Or is there really nothing to explain? enigma.

It's too hard to explain. I don't know how to explain it.

Quote

Why destructively disqualify traditions like Buddhism without giving even the slightest explanation of what is wrong with Buddhism?

I have given plenty of explanation of problems with Buddhism.

But the really deep problem cannot be explained so simply.

I'm in the process of articulating it to myself. And it's hard to do that when I'm being gaslit by them on the regular. A certain orbital escape velocity much be reached to transcend Buddhism + Nonduality + enlightenment. Which is why you don't see many people escaping it.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

And when you teach that kind of exploration/path to suffering/psychopath please put a big warning lable on top of it, and don't praise it as the highest goal/value of consciousness exploration or summum bonum AWAKENING n+1. Nobody with any spiritual wisdom wants to risk becoming a psychopath.

I don't teach suffering or psychopathy. I just explore Consciousness and report back certain things I've discovered.

My path is very dangerous. If you don't do it properly you will kill yourself.

Which is why I report my findings. Since nobody else is doing what I'm doing.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

EI have always thought that you were pointing to something never seen before, but your attitude again and again points to a kind of psychotic break. Since you seem an extremely smart person, the fact that you seem extremely stupid lately makes me think of some kind of strategy, a game, and that at some point something great will come up... but then, again and again just vagueness, negativity, self-aggrandizement... Why not explain yourself thoroughly and transparently at once? Or is there really nothing to explain? enigma. 

Ockhams Razor normally delivers the correct answer. Surprises to the opposite are always welcome, but seldom happen.

Smartness/IQ does not at all save from psychotic/schizophrenic episodes. Not at all. I do know that first hand from family members (luckily not my side of the family since it tends to run in genetics).

Watch that fascinating movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Imitation_Game

Very high (outlier) intelligence and talents often goes hand in hand with psychotic/schizophrenic tendencies. And a few hundred trips would stress/endanger the most stable psychology concerning schizophrenic episodes. I mean, Leo even wondered why the camera did not capture him as Alien.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Water by the River