Ralston Gives A Clear Answer To Metaphysical Love Question

[BlessedLion]

damn , this thread really blew up. Glad i shared! 

Currently doing the Life Purpose course so can't catch up on everything. Dipping into the more human material domain for a bit, God ain't going anywhere

 

Yimpa is absolutely wild bruh

[Osaid]

2 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

Yimpa is absolutely wild bruh

True I heard he puts spongebob quotes on people's threads

[Yimpa]

[Arthogaan]

@Osaid @Inliytened1 @Leo Gura @Loveeee

Love is not a property of Consciousness or God. Consciousness is LOVE. God is LOVE. 

This is a crucial distinction. Just like Consciousness is Imagination. It is not like Consciousness has the ability to imagine. They are identical. Consciousness = Love = Imagination. But Buddhist/Ralston paradigm points to this empty kind of Consciousness, that only has the ability to imagine, or to feel love. These are totally two different paradigms. Awakening to the fact that Consciousness IS LOVE is filling all that buddhist-like Consciousness with sweet, psychedelic, visionary LOVE. 

So this is really misleading when Ralston dismisses Love as a feeling. It is just as misleading as when he would say, you know, Imagination is just some feeling, just some activity that Consciousness can do. NO! Consciousness and imagination are the same thing, you can't separate it like that because then you dismiss imagination as just some minor thing and you lose the DREAM-LIKE feature of reality. And when you dismiss LOVE you lose the LOVING feature of reality. 

So this clearly shows that psychedelics make you more open to these kind of realizations that Imagination, Love, God, Consciousness ARE IDENTICAL and this is exactly why it is so dangerous to NOT do psychedelics. Because you stay in this empty, raw paradigm where Consciousness is not identical to love.

And this part:

55 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

He fell off the wagon after his 30 day psychedelic retreat. .   It was done.  Soon after he put out the Infinity of Gods episode and its been downhill ever since. 

 

50 minutes ago, Osaid said:

I found that episode in particular odd because it wasn't very clear. 

 

47 minutes ago, Osaid said:

I think the psychedelics did it to be honest. What a devious play it is to mix genuine profound truths in with symbolic egoic experiences.

To be honest I found the above exchanges really sad. Like this gossipy dismissing vibe. Leo is literally fighting in this thread for you to not forget the most important part of reality which is LOVE. And he is doing it out of Love. And you without being able to counter any of his arguments just turn to shitting on the guy in this dismissing, snakey way on his own site that we can sit on for free.

Which shows you exactly why Leo had to build this ridiculous amounts of arrogance for himself. Because of this endless gaslighting and dismissing of Love-feature of reality. This is the core message of Leo. That you are LOVE. So dismissing it is not something that Leo can afford to accept here. 

[Osaid]

16 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

To be honest I found the above exchanges really sad. Like this gossipy dismissing vibe. Leo is literally fighting in this thread for you to not forget the most important part of reality which is LOVE. And he is doing it out of Love. And you without being able to counter any of his arguments just turn to shitting on the guy in this dismissing, snakey way on his own site that we can sit on for free.

Which shows you exactly why Leo had to build this ridiculous amounts of arrogance for himself. Because of this endless gaslighting and dismissing of Love-feature of reality. This is the core message of Leo. That you are LOVE. So dismissing it is not something that Leo can afford to accept here. 

Like I said before, I totally get his sentiment. My sentiment is the same, he is guiding people away from truth/enlightenment, which is "love." And to be fair, he is equally dismissive with his comments about Buddhist rats or whatever. But really, enlightenment has nothing to do with Buddhism or the like, those are just methods for reaching it.

I also find this idea that I am not able to counter any of his arguments laughable as he has basically done nothing to argue against me aside from either ignoring it or making that spiel about the color red or whatever. Not saying that he HAS to argue against me. I am just saying this point of yours makes no sense to me.

16 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

But Buddhist/Ralston paradigm points to this empty kind of Consciousness, that only has the ability to imagine, or to feel love. These are totally two different paradigms.

It doesn't, this is a misconception. Buddhism and Ralston are not clinging to some state of consciousness that is void of imagination or anything like that. They're both pointing to the same thing, which is truth/enlightenment. That empty/pure consciousness, or "turiya" as it is sometimes called, is simply a specific state of consciousness which makes it easier to see your true nature (similar to a psychedelic state), but that is not enlightenment at all. Enlightenment exists in all experience, no matter how alien or non-alien it is, because it is truth, so of course it would.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Osaid

[Loveeee]

10 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

@Osaid @Inliytened1 @Leo Gura @Loveeee

Love is not a property of Consciousness or God. Consciousness is LOVE. God is LOVE. 

This is a crucial distinction. Just like Consciousness is Imagination. It is not like Consciousness has the ability to imagine. They are identical. Consciousness = Love = Imagination.

There's only The Absolute (God), of which we can distinguish facets, like consciousness and love

But of course facets are ultimately the same thing, only approached from a different angle 

 

 

[BlessedLion]

26 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Love you!

Also, I will be with Ralston in about 2 weeks, I'll tell him y'all said what up

[Arthogaan]

19 minutes ago, Osaid said:

I also find this idea that I am not able to counter any of his arguments laughable as he has basically done nothing to argue against me aside from either ignoring it or making that spiel about the color red or whatever. Not saying that he HAS to argue against me. I am just saying this point of yours makes no sense to me.

You are right. Sorry for that. I was a little bit triggered. But also I would say we are speaking at the level where words get really wonky and most of the claims at that level are becoming un-counter-able.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Osaid said:

That empty/pure consciousness, or "turiya" as it is sometimes called, is simply a specific state of consciousness which makes it easier to see your true nature (similar to a psychedelic state), but that is not enlightenment at all. Enlightenment exists in all experience, no matter how alien or non-alien it is, because it is truth, so of course it would.

Okay. I believe the last sentence is actually pointing to the same thing as when Leo says in context of Absolute Solipsism that "Your POV is absolute, whatever happens in your Consciousness is absolute". 

Also You could replace the word Enlightenment with a word LOVE in the last sentence, and it would become a very lovely sentence then with which Leo would agree (I think).  Leo is just biased against word Enlightenment because it stirs up some misconceptions in people. 

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Arthogaan said:

Also You could replace the word Enlightenment with a word LOVE in the last sentence, and it would become a very lovely sentence then with which Leo would agree (I think).  Leo is just biased against word Enlightenment because it stirs up some misconceptions in people. 

No, it's a bigger contention than that. I'm saying he's not enlightened, which is why he disagrees with me and Ralston.

What I have said from the beginning of this thread is probably worth reading first, but it is long.

1 hour ago, Arthogaan said:

You are right. Sorry for that. I was a little bit triggered. But also I would say we are speaking at the level where words get really wonky and most of the claims at that level are becoming un-counter-able.

If there is one argument I want people take away from this thread to focus on, which I don't think Leo can really refute, it's just this:

If reality is one, then you can't realize truth twice. This is impossible.

There can't be "two truths" or "more truths" or "multiple truths being realized" or "higher consciousness" or "deeper awakenings" or "more awake." There is one realization that is true throughout all of existence, and that is enlightenment. Either you get it or you don't. 

Truth cannot depend on memory or imagination or past experiences, as these are relative features of reality. 

Also be wary of the usage of dualistic terms to describe truth. "Higher consciousness", "deeper awakening", "more awake", etc. These are dualistic and anthropomorphic terms and thus can't have anything to do with truth since truth is absolute.

Truth is not something that has to be refined, integrated or understood over time. The fact that there are any misunderstandings should be a big red flag. This means that the method of accessing truth is corrupted. If you are constantly "refining truth" and having "deeper awakenings", it should be contemplated how this is even possible in the first place.

The states which allow you to view enlightenment temporarily are being put on a pedestal. Hence, "higher-consciousness states", hence "more understanding", hence "chasing truth forever." There is a phenomenon happening here where people are clinging to enlightenment-inducing states. States that are intense, frightening, profound, tear-jerking, and the rest of the dualisms.

I am not saying that all of the truths from Leo's awakenings are false or anything like that, I've made no such claim, but it's more the case that all the truths he's trying to piece together paradoxically fit together into one singular insight, or something of that sort, and then that is enlightenment. So I am not necessarily discrediting everything. Don't take this as that. At the very least, just look at it with an open mind and contemplate.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Osaid

[StarStruck]

I’m starting to believe it is just a spiel to sell his upcoming course. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by StarStruck

[Loveeee]

I'm baffled that mods on this forum can have so little understanding of Leo's work 

[BlessedLion]

34 minutes ago, Osaid said:

No, it's a bigger contention than that. I'm saying he's not enlightened, which is why he disagrees with me and Ralston.

I agree with this. I don't think Leo has ever actually had an Enlightenment and he seems to have a ton bias against it. He's gone very deep into the mind and psychedelics but in a sense that's still just mind, illusion and Maya. 

Psychedelics can not produce true enlightenment, and those saying enlightenment is just love are wrong. It is beyond all that. 

[Loveeee]

11 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

I agree with this. I don't think Leo has ever actually had an Enlightenment and he seems to have a ton bias against it. He's gone very deep into the mind and psychedelics but in a sense that's still just mind, illusion and Maya. 

Psychedelics can not produce true enlightenment, and those saying enlightenment is just love are wrong. It is beyond all that. 

You trippin

There's a downward direction to awakening which brings your mind to zero, zen style, it's valid but there's also the upward, not "just mind" but infinite mind

Leo explains it here at the very beginning 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Loveeee

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

I think you are wise enough to see that there can't be "two truths" or "more truths" or "multiple truths being realized" or "more consciousness." Reality is one. Truth is one thing. You can't realize truth twice.

Realizing Truth is easy relative to the consciousness I am talking about. But even so, your understanding of Truth is quite weak. You've reduced Truth down to some kind of formless atom, as the Buddhists and nondualists do. This is not a complete understanding of Truth and leads to much self-deception.

I'm perfectly clear on what Truth is. You're not fooling me with such gambits.

Quote

Existentially all your "truths" and "awakenings" are just thought forms

No.

But that sure is a nice way for you to rationalize to yourself that you have outsmarted me.

I find it interesting how easily you guys take me for an idiot. You really think I haven't thoroughly considered this? Like I just overlooked it like some kind of bumbling amateur?

Quote

You are constantly using dualistic terms to describe consciousness and truth. "Higher consciousness", "deeper awakening", "more conscious", "more awake", etc.

Consciousness comes in many degrees. You are confusing this with the notion of Truth.

Quote

These terms are very relative and anthropomorphic. Truth does not deal in the anthropomorphisms and hyperboles of human egos. Of course it doesn't.

Your entire nondual enlightenment spirituality is anthropomorphic and human. You don't even understand what a non-human consciousness is. What I talk about is the least anthropomorphic thing any human has ever talked about.

Quote

Truth is not dependent on memory or imagination.

I never claimed it was. You just don't understand my position on Truth.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Osaid]

5 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

and those saying enlightenment is just love are wrong. It is beyond all that. 

Who knows.

You might find that your desire to love things is supported by the universe in a weird way. It's not very intelligent for anything to hate itself, and if the universe can imagine physics, it is smart enough to realize that.

 

[gettoefl]

Quote

 

mind contaminates MIND, fix your mind then everything is good and pure and true

thoughts are nothing but window dressing that prevent you seeing the pristine perfection all around

Quote

Stop mapping things out. Stop thinking the way things should be, what you'd like. Everything happens all by itself. It doesn't need any help from you. Who do you think you are trying to help the infinite know itself? Things begin to happen when you drop everything. Things begin to happen to you when you don't want anything. When you stop searching. When you stop planning. When you stop being afraid. When you have no desires. Then things begin to happen. Robert Adams

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by gettoefl

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Loveeee said:

There's a downward direction to awakening which brings your mind to zero, zen style, it's valid but there's also the upward, not "just mind" but infinite mind

I want to make it clear that this is not what I am trying to talk about. Like I said before, I am not talking about some void state with no qualities, what I am talking about perfectly encapsulates any experience in existence and it is present throughout all experiences.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Realizing Truth is easy relative to the consciousness I am talking about. But even so, your understanding of Truth is quite weak. You've reduced Truth down to some kind of formless atom, as the Buddhists and nondualists do. This is not a complete understanding of Truth and leads to much self-deception.

No, it is probably not the case that Buddhists or enlightened people are naively clinging to some reductionist state. Some may have been fooled that way, but for the truly enlightened it is not like this.

The idea that I am talking about some reductionist aspect of reality is a misconception derived from an inability to comprehend how a single realization can embody many seemingly "different" insights such as love, infinity, etc. I am saying that this one realization, which is enlightenment, perfectly embodies all the different truths and insights you are gathering over the course of your awakenings. It seems impossible and paradoxical in that way, but when you have this realization, it is just present throughout the entirety of all experience that occurs, and it perfectly embodies those experiences. 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Consciousness comes in many degrees. You are confusing this with the notion of Truth.

You are confusing degrees of consciousness for Truth. I will reiterate, there are not degrees of Truth, because reality is one. I am not saying that the Truth IS that reality is one, that is just a small aspect of Truth. I am saying that by the metaphysical nature of reality being one thing, the Truth is also one thing/realization. It is impossible for Truth to be realized twice or realized in degrees over time, because there can only be one Truth. This Truth is NOT limited to one state, it paradoxically exists across all states in reality. 

I don't get how you can claim degrees of Truth/understanding while knowing that reality is just one thing. I find this to be a big discrepancy. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Osaid

[Water by the River]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Osaid You have no idea what Consciousness is.

I repeat. No one on this planet understands AWAKENING except for me.

Not you. Not Ralston. Not any other "enlightened" twat.

Enlightenment is horseshit invented by a dumb mind.

 

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Inliytened1 And you are full of shit too.

You guys keep playing your stupid games. Like monkeys swinging in the branches.

And then you cry when I throw a rock at your stupid head.

Is that the love that you are preaching? The emotional state in which these aggresive and profane threats are written prevents any awakened or nondual state while doing so.

You are racking up huge bad Karma for you (visible in the emotional states/energy you are writing in), and for fellow beings that follow this narcissistic solipsistic ego = God path that results.

I assume the next round of severe crash & burn, suffering, and forced humility and atoning is right aroud in the corner. 

Besides racking up bad Karma for you, you spoil the life of lots of beings with this Solipsism stuff that makes them unable to tell the difference between narcissistic ego and their True Being (impersonal, nondual, infinite and free). Narcissistic solipsistic ego is not God, it prevents True Realization and the path towards it. Actually, you are setting them up on the exact opposite path, contrary to transcendence and deeper into narcissistic ego/contraction/separation.

Doing that corresponds to the activities of the gentlemen with style that is represented by three number (between 5 and 7) that your Awakening live video shows. What does the gentlemen with style do with the human tool once he is finished using it? Can't you see that?

For me it appears that the universe is using you to

a) either to make a severe warning example out of the narcissistic solipsistic ego = God and mainly psychedelic path and where it leads (suffering, misery, egoity, narcicissm, and genereal meaness) or

b) show catching the corner and finally wise up towards the True Realization that Inliytened1 and Osaid tell about.

What the outcome will be I don't know, but you are playing with fire and your own life here, and you know it. Contemplate if version a) or b) is better for you personally.

You will never change the realizations of Inliytened and Osaid and their testament of it, because they know the source. It is available to them anytime always.

All the best

Water by the River

 

 

[OBEler]

@Water by the River Leo reached awakenings no one of you have ever reached. He is gaslightened by ignorant people all the time, I think that makes you bitter. So dont be confused of emotional states and look for what he is trying to explain (which is very hard, because you need to get there on your own) . 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

The idea that I am talking about some reductionist aspect of reality is a misconception derived from an inability to comprehend how a single realization can embody many seemingly "different" insights such as love, infinity, etc. I am saying that this one realization, which is enlightenment, perfectly embodies all the different truths and insights you are gathering over the course of your awakenings. It seems impossible and paradoxical in that way, but when you have this realization, it is just present throughout the entirety of all experience that occurs, and it perfectly embodies those experiences.

That's fine, but there is way more to consciousness beyond all that.

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

You are confusing degrees of consciousness for Truth.

This Truth is NOT limited to one state, it paradoxically exists across all states in reality. 

Everything and anything that you experience is Truth. So are disagreeing with me over nothing.

I speak of CONSCIOUSNESS because it is a much more sophisticated and complex thing than realizing what Truth is. Precisely because Truth is just anything you experience. And comprehending CONSCIOUSNESS is not that easy! You need a massive shift in consciousness to actually see what it is. Your realization of Truth is not doing that job.

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

I don't get how you can claim degrees of Truth/understanding while knowing that reality is just one thing. I find this to be a big discrepancy. 

1) I don't claim degrees of Truth. You made that up.

2) Understanding what CONSCIOUSNESS is a totally higher matter and comes in many degrees.

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Is that the love that you are preaching?

A) YES!

B) Love is not human kindness. Although it also is. But it is also a horse kicking you in the nuts.

23 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Water by the River Leo reached awakenings no one of you have ever reached.

You don't know that.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Leo Gura