Ralston Gives A Clear Answer To Metaphysical Love Question

[gettoefl]

thoughts are appearances

are appearances real?

only in relative reality

in the absolute these is just this pristine undifferentiated tapestry

[Princess Arabia]

9 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

So when your hand so call disappears what happened is you became unaware that your hand never disappeared.

This part I'm sitting in my room trying to get. Are you saying my hand is always there but I'm only aware of it when I'm seeing it. Wait, that doesn't even make sense. Say it differently 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Water by the River]

36 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

I think the point should be made that what many consider to be a complete breakthrough "enlightenment experience" which is a NON DUAL experience. (refrain from thinking about god for a minute I'm not talking about a breakthrough to becoming THE SELF as infinity, but NO self, the traditional Buddhist samadhi state) IS achievable and a definite experience you can have, HOWEVER once you come down out of the non dual state and the ego start to mould back into place, the idea that you are now "enlightened" and "living an enlightened life" is utter horseshit. Its no different from identifying with a culture, or identifying as a Nazi, a scientist, or a hippie. Its all bullshit that your self concocting and projecting, its not grounded in anything and saying that you are now "enlightened" and live an enlightened is no difference from saying that you live the life of a poor beggar, or a school kid or a gangster. THE ONLY ENLIGHTENED LIFE THERE IS, IS THE ONE YOUR DREAMING UP.

You haven't broken out the the illusion of "normal life" or regular day to day living and am now liberated, YOU'VE JUST CHANGED THE CONTENTS OF THE ILLUSION.

I agree that in this way an enlightenment experience can be misused for form an enlightened-person/enlightened separate-self. That would be an Awakening/an Enlightenment.

But: The nondual state can become permanent. From peak to plateau to permanent. And then, when having rested long enough in awakened nondual states, the separate-self remains can be seen through/transcended/cut-off for good, and the True Nature of Reality and oneself can be directly realized. And that is then called Full Enlightenment. That normally happens after a long time in awakened (and already nondual/unity) states in which the remains of the separate-self are gradually transcended/dissolved.

[gettoefl]

5 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

I agree that in this way an enlightenment experience can be misused for form an enlightened-person/enlightened separate-self. That would be an Awakening/an Enlightenment.

But: The nondual state can become permanent. From peak to plateau to permanent. And then, when having rested long enough in awakened nondual states, the separate-self remains can be seen through/transcended/cut-off for good, and the True Nature of Reality and oneself can be directly realized. And that is then called Full Enlightenment. That normally happens after a long time in awakened (and already nondual/unity) states in which the remains of the separate-self are gradually transcended/dissolved.

you are an object you are not a subject the seen not the seer indeed you are no different to me and henceforth shall grow the seeds of love

[Ry4n]

 

[StarStruck]

@Water by the River thank you 

[Yimpa]

Love doesn’t have conditions 

But Dove Conditioner gives you smooth, silky hair.

[Razard86]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Love doesn’t have conditions 

But Dove Conditioner gives you smooth, silky hair.

Lol .....is that in your direct experience....or did you hear it in a commercial?

[Breakingthewall]

To say that everything is love is nonsense, because if everything were love, you couldn't contrast love with anything else, so love would not be anything definable, then it would not be "love", it would be reality, so the only possible definition is: reality is reality

[gettoefl]

love is to give more than was possible before

the way the means the key to an unlocked door

[Osaid]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You deny the relative, and thus you don't even know what you are talking about. There isn't one truth. If there was one truth, there wouldn't be Infinity. That's the point. You don't even realize that you are playing word games and are talking in circles.

You are mistaking truth and enlightenment for imagination. Of course there is one truth. As said before, you are perceiving "multiple infinities" and "multiple truths" through memory and imagination, this couldn't be happening any other way. Existentially it is just human imagination.

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

2. In ONE SENSE Infinity is indistinguishable and in another sense it isn't. Why? Because if it wasn't indistinguishable YOU couldn't imagine it was. There is no difference between REAL and IMAGINARY as thus...duality is JUST AS REAL AS IMAGINARY. The only reason we focus on the Absolute here, is because those who want to awaken are only aware of the Relative and NOT the Absolute.

Again, you are treating the phenomenon of human imagination as some existential truth which applies to infinity, but of course this is not the case. Anything distinguished is imagination. It's never anything else. Nothing is actually being distinguished. You are existentially perceiving imagination, a relative phenomenon. Imagination is equal to distinguishing, but it never happens outside of imagination, it is just trapped in that medium. I am not saying that imagination does not exist, I am saying that it has nothing to do with you or infinity, and that it actually occurs inside of infinity.

Anything distinguished is always a subset of experience. So when you distinguish multiple truths, of course that is not the case, because you are distinguishing experience. 

The only way you are experiencing two truths is through memory and imagination, which means that if someone were to have their memory and imagination removed, this "truth" would literally stop existing, so there is a serious discrepancy happening here.

 

[Francis777]

25 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

I agree that in this way an enlightenment experience can be misused for form an enlightened-person/enlightened separate-self. That would be an Awakening/an Enlightenment.

But: The nondual state can become permanent. From peak to plateau to permanent. And then, when having rested long enough in awakened nondual states, the separate-self remains can be seen through/transcended/cut-off for good, and the True Nature of Reality and oneself can be directly realized. And that is then called Full Enlightenment. That normally happens after a long time in awakened (and already nondual/unity) states in which the remains of the separate-self are gradually transcended/dissolved.

You have never had a non-dual experience, you do not realise the LITERALNESS of a non dual state, your completely wrapped up in the concept of it. THERE IS NO DISTINCT REALITY IN A NON DUAL STATE. There is nothing to observe! Nothing to admire!

My friend a word of advice if I may, you are so far deluded and misguided in your own concepts that its hard to even make sense of the messages that you post on here. It is very clear that you have no little to no comprehension of what direct consciousness is. My suggestion is that you take some psychedelics, solely with the direct intention to experience one of these states, COMPLETELY FREE of any ASSUMPTION that you have of it, what you think it is, what is might be and so on. Not even to have the complete breakthrough state, just even to have a little taste of TRUE direct consciousness would be enough for you to start questioning the structure of this conceptual mountain of bullshit your currently working off of, it would save you a tonne of time and hopefully stop you wrapping yourself up even further in the giant conceptual web that your currently in. Provided that you have a genuine desire to become more consciousness.

I'll just say it again mate, I didn't write this with any intention to condescend or demean, or to make you feel bad about yourself. I can just see that getting massively stuck up on this, solely because I don't believe you've had a genuine realisation into the nature of direct consciousness, and your not going progress any further down this path without it. 

of course your free to do what you like, but I really think this is what you need to be focusing on. Hope you receive this in the positive light I sent it in.

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

THERE IS NO DISTINCT REALITY IN A NON DUAL STATE. There is nothing to observe! Nothing to admire!

Nobody contradicts that. there is simply the appearance of limits, and limits create the appearance of a self. Many of those who say they are awakened reach mystical states with psychedelics in which they replace the everyday self with the great self they call God, and enter messianic delusions. Awakening is the breaking of limits, realizing your true nature: total reality, impersonal, unlimited and free. Ant it brings an energetic change.  many people don't like this, they need the super sayan level, because they prefer to keep the self, greedy attitude that bring suffering

Edited September 13, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

32 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

To say that everything is love is nonsense, because if everything were love, you couldn't contrast love with anything else, so love would not be anything definable, then it would not be "love", it would be reality, so the only possible definition is: reality is reality

You don't know what love is....that is why you say that, Love is undefinable...therefore...everything is love. Love is ONENESS therefore it cannot be broken. Love cannot be contrasted, because Consciousness, Imagination, Nothing IS LOVE.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Razard86

[Francis777]

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

there is simply the appearance of limits

there is no appearance in a non dual state, you will not understand me till you experience it for yourself, this is free for anyone to experience do not take my word for it. An awakened view of the boundaries in consciousness being illusory is not the same as experiencing a full non dual state.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Francis777

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You don't know what love is....that is why you say that, Love is undefinable...therefore...everything is love. Love is ONENESS therefore it cannot be broken. Love cannot be contrasted, because Consciousness, Imagination, Nothing IS LOVE.

So why do you use the word love?

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

there is no appearance in a non dual state, you will not understand me till you experience it for yourself, this is free for anyone to experience do not take my word for it. An awakened view of the boundaries in consciousness being illusory is not the same as a experiencing a full non dual state.

You are very arrogant. We already have one with this attitude, we don't need a crew. How do you know that I don't experience those full non dual states? Well, probably you are a troll

Edited September 13, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Osaid]

8 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

How come it can seem so complicated to understand Awakening/Enlightenment/Spirituality.

Because it can never be understood by anything, wrong medium. Any concepts or communications are simply tools for pointing you "there", but they are absolutely not the thing itself and don't have much to do with it, in the same way that your understanding of the color red has nothing to do with the color red. You don't need any logic or understanding about the color red to see red.

You might feel like whenever enlightenment is described it feels like the description is jumping around something, and this makes perfect sense when you consider the above. For example, try describing the color red to someone who can't see, and then look at what your description looks like. It's always "jumping around" the experience itself, because of course you cannot convert it into a communication.

This is not to say that it is complex or out of reach, I am saying the opposite. It is super simple, and you literally need zero intellect for it. Cats are enlightened, worms are enlightened, babies are enlightened. It is precisely not intellect, in the same way that the color red is not intellect.

When humans develop the capability to imagine strongly, they extend that imagination as an "extra limb" so to speak, and they begin to act as if they are not infinite because they believe so. If you imagine that there is an alligator under your bed and you believe it, you will panic. If you imagine you are "a human" who is "this" and "that" and then believe it, you will panic. You will imagine tomorrow and be affected by it. You will imagine bills that need to be paid and be affected by it. You will imagine things that never happen and be affected by it.

Enlightenment, or the end result, is purely an experiential phenomenon, as if you are perceiving the color red or listening to music. No need to integrate any ideas or philosophies. It's just experienced. Either you're experiencing it or you aren't. There are no levels to it. Any "levels" experienced are not enlightenment and are instead awakenings/hints/breadcrumbs towards it, or just something else altogether.

Relatively, it is a permanent psychological recontextualization of your experience that is triggered by something, and then you just stay there forever. Not that it is inherently related to something relative like a brain, but that is how the universe "dreams up" the experience, so to speak.

Perhaps, to put it more succinctly, you are confused about spirituality because 99% of people who talk about it are also confused about it. Straight up, if you are not enlightened, you have no idea or clue what it is, and anything you claim about it is going to be from memory or imagination. This is why private workshops are done, where there is a teacher-student dynamic with someone who is confirmed to be enlightened. It has come to a point where people care more about their ideas about enlightenment rather than enlightenment itself. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Osaid

[Francis777]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are very arrogant. We already have one, we don't need a crew. How do you know that I don't experience those full non dual states? 

because I have, therefore its clear to me that you haven't.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Francis777 said:

because I have, therefore its clear to me that you haven't.

Really? How? Explain. Where is my comment that make you realize that?