Bossy girls

[something_else]

Why do you think it is that you did not just take this in your stride? And why did you feel the urge to make a forum post about it?

It sounds to me like a fairly minor interaction that can be boiled down to "I spoke to someone with a different opinion than me"

Edited September 11, 2023 by something_else

[mr_engineer]

3 hours ago, something_else said:

Why do you think it is that you did not just take this in your stride? And why did you feel the urge to make a forum post about it?

It sounds to me like a fairly minor interaction that can be boiled down to "I spoke to someone with a different opinion than me"

I ask you 'Should you have two eyes? What's your opinion?' 

You say 'Yeah, I should have two eyes, why, what's the problem?!' 

I say 'My opinion is that you should only have one eye. But, you know what?! If you disagree, let's 'agree to disagree''. 

You laugh at me, nervously looking at whether I'm going to stab you in the eye or not. 

This is the reality of 'agreeing to disagree' with someone who you're bringing into your life. You have to agree on the basic principles, or else you're going to have to spend the rest of your life walking on eggshells. Opinions aren't just opinions, they lead to actions. And if the opinion is factually off or missing important details, the actions they will lead to will be really problematic. Some opinions are just red-flags in dating, honestly. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by mr_engineer

[something_else]

56 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I ask you 'Should you have two eyes? What's your opinion?' 

You say 'Yeah, I should have two eyes, why, what's the problem?!' 

I say 'My opinion is that you should only have one eye. But, you know what?! If you disagree, let's 'agree to disagree''. 

You laugh at me, nervously looking at whether I'm going to stab you in the eye or not. 

This is the reality of 'agreeing to disagree' with someone who you're bringing into your life. You have to agree on the basic principles, or else you're going to have to spend the rest of your life walking on eggshells. Opinions aren't just opinions, they lead to actions. And if the opinion is factually off or missing important details, the actions they will lead to will be really problematic. Some opinions are just red-flags in dating, honestly. 

I'm sorry, I don't see how this is related to what I said. I agree with you, but this seems more like a general reply to OP than a reply to me.

Perhaps I need to clarify. My point was that if OPs instinct upon talking to a stranger with a different opinion is to make a forum post criticising them as a person, OP should reflect on why they feel the need to do that.

If OP had phrased this topic as a matter of how important matching opinions are when dating, like you did, I think that would probably be more productive.

However OP phrased it using lots of negative and judgemental terms like 'bossy girls', 'hugely unattractive', 'bossy and opinionated', 'are the worst', 'very annoying' 'have to deal with' etc. which to me indicate OP should reflect on why they feel so negatively affected by this scenario.

Edited September 11, 2023 by something_else

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

I think women who know what they want and what they like are like really hot. I don't see why that's a big deal.

It's a big deal to those who don't know what they want nor what they like. 

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

Maybe that's a part of it, but I think conditioning plays a bigger role. The women in my family aren't shy about how they feel and what they think, plus my mother basically had to raise me on her own, with the help of my grandmother and my great grandmother, all strong women who I respect.

I understand that other guys might have had a different upbringing, so it's understandable why they might feel this way, I just think it's weird to relate this whole thing back to the idea of gender as a whole. An assertive guy will know how to deal with an assertive woman and make her feel comfortable in her feminine energy. If you can't do that, chances are that you're just less assertive than her. That's okay, but don't blame her for it. There will be a guy more assertive than her, who will be able to appreciate her strength and know how to deal with it.  It's not her problem.

Assertiveness CAN be toxic, but that's not a gendered thing. It's a limit of assertiveness as a construct.

I agree.

[Sincerity]

23 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

I (and a lot of men) value peace in a relationship, where there isn't incessant fighting. If you have a woman who needlessly opposes your opinion, this goes against our values. So, putting up with this shit is incompatible to us. 

Lol no it doesn't go against your "values", if You can't handle an opposing view You are just weak and don't want to grow. Learn to handle conflict and don't avoid it for the sake of superficial "peace". This isn't peace, this is weakness covered with a blanket. 

A strongly masculine man will usually attract a strongly feminine woman and yes because of this there will probably be conflict, but as a man You can decide to handle it and embrace it.

If You want a mellow woman who doesn't give You a challenge You are probably mellow yourself, which is fine if it's true. But are You REALLY mellow, or do You just have inadequacies & limiting beliefs about women and yourself that are inhibiting your masculine energy? Consider the option that maybe, just maybe You're lying to yourself on a very deep level and You're denying parts of You with your beliefs. If I had to guess I'd say that You think You value peace but in reality You'd crave a passionate relationship in which she's feminine towards You. It's so easy to bullshit yourself, never underestimate it. I bullshit myself all the fucking time.

I recommend You read The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida.

Quote

If a man is very masculine by nature, then he will be attracted to a very feminine woman, who will complement his energy. The more neutral or balanced he is, the more balanced he will prefer his woman. And, if a man is more feminine by nature, his energy will be complemented by the strong direction and purposiveness of a more masculine woman. By understanding their own needs, men can learn to accept the "whole package" of a woman. For instance, a more masculine man can expect that any woman who really turns him on and enlivens him will also be relatively wild, undisciplined, "bonkers", chaotic, prone to changing her mind and "lying". Still, from an energetic perspective, this kind of woman will be more healing and inspiring to him than a more balanced or neutral woman who is steady, reasonable, "trustworthy", and able to say what she means in a way he can understand.

- The Way of the Superior Man, entry to chapter 24 "Choose a Woman Who is Your Complementary Opposite"

Maybe I'll respond to your other 2 points later but idk too much writing

Edited September 11, 2023 by Sincerity

[Yimpa]

@Sincerity I was going through a rough patch last night; it was my girl friend who snapped me out of it. She gave me her raw perspective, rather than playing along with my games. I took her perspective as a personal attack initially, but quickly realized that I was the one being foolish; sneakily seeking reassurance from her. Her presence and wisdom actually brought clarity!

[StarStruck]

To be honest I think this girl was feminine to begin with. She made me make all the choices even though I asked her opinions on our decisions for the day.

I was just kind of flabbergasted about extreme position she took against Elon Musk. At that moment I didn't know how to respond to it without being confrontational.

I also know she doesn't like my spiritual side. She is all science and materialist. And she is very stubborn about this topic. So it is not just her position on Elon Musk. It is just her stubbornness as a trait that I don't like.

This has nothing to do with male or female. It is just a trait. I don't know why you guys have to fit everything in the masculine-feminine frame.

Edited September 11, 2023 by StarStruck

[Yimpa]

@StarStruck Stop playing games and see that she is an absolute reflection of You 

[StarStruck]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

@StarStruck Stop playing games and see that she is an absolute reflection of You 

I know this and I hate this. ?

She is also different though.

Edited September 11, 2023 by StarStruck

[Sincerity]

37 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I also know she doesn't like my spiritual side. She is all science and materialist. And she is very stubborn about this topic. So it is not just her position on Elon Musk. It is just her stubbornness as a trait that I don't like.

Fair enough

But I'll just say, this Elon Musk thing wouldn't bug You if You weren't attached to him in some way. I'd say a big part of this work is not needing to convince others and just letting people believe whatever they want, without feeling annoyed one bit. It's a sign for You that there's something there to process, no attachment is ever necessary.

Also I'm sorry I went overboard with being a dick.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Sincerity

[Sincerity]

40 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Sincerity I was going through a rough patch last night; it was my girl friend who snapped me out of it. She gave me her raw perspective, rather than playing along with my games. I took her perspective as a personal attack initially, but quickly realized that I was the one being foolish; sneakily seeking reassurance from her. Her presence and wisdom actually brought clarity!

Nice 

[StarStruck]

19 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

Fair enough

But I'll just say, this Elon Musk thing wouldn't bug You if You weren't attached to him in some way. I'd say a big part of this work is not needing to convince others and just letting people believe whatever they want, without feeling annoyed one bit. It's a sign for You that there's something there to process, no attachment is ever necessary.

 

Yea, that is the core issue. It is a childish trait I need to sort out. I don't know how though.

 

Quote

Also I'm sorry I went overboard with being a dick.

No worries

[Yimpa]

6 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I know this and I hate this. ?

She is also different though.

Learn to see the love in different perspectives. Different is scary if you thoroughly convince yourself that reality can only be one way.

Become the captain of all your relationships.

[mr_engineer]

9 hours ago, Sincerity said:

Lol no it doesn't go against your "values", if You can't handle an opposing view You are just weak and don't want to grow. Learn to handle conflict and don't avoid it for the sake of superficial "peace". This isn't peace, this is weakness covered with a blanket. 

You are entitled to your judgements. 

9 hours ago, Sincerity said:

A strongly masculine man will usually attract a strongly feminine woman and yes because of this there will probably be conflict, but as a man You can decide to handle it and embrace it.

That is misogynistic. To say that 'femininity implies conflict'. No, it doesn't! It's the failure to be feminine that creates conflict. Being bossy is the opposite of being feminine! It's being masculine. 

9 hours ago, Sincerity said:

If You want a mellow woman who doesn't give You a challenge You are probably mellow yourself, which is fine if it's true. But are You REALLY mellow, or do You just have inadequacies & limiting beliefs about women and yourself that are inhibiting your masculine energy? Consider the option that maybe, just maybe You're lying to yourself on a very deep level and You're denying parts of You with your beliefs. If I had to guess I'd say that You think You value peace but in reality You'd crave a passionate relationship in which she's feminine towards You. It's so easy to bullshit yourself, never underestimate it. I bullshit myself all the fucking time.

1. I don't want a woman to challenge me. If she does that shit, I'm out. Next. 

2. Challenging a man is not femininity. The masculine and feminine are supposed to work well as a team, they're not supposed to be in constant battle. 

3. I want peace in a relationship. Once you have peace with the people in your life, you can be a force of good for the world and you won't be hating your life in that process. I'm not fully sure if I have to choose between that and a passionate relationship but if I had to, I'd choose the peaceful one. Cuz it's more sustainable, less tiring and conflict-ridden. 

9 hours ago, Sincerity said:

I recommend You read The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida.

I'll pass on the spiritual ego, thanks. 

[Buck Edwards]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

 I want peace in a relationship. Once you have peace with the people in your life, you can be a force of good for the world and you won't be hating your life in that process. I'm not fully sure if I have to choose between that and a passionate relationship but if I had to, I'd choose the peaceful one. Cuz it's more sustainable, less tiring and conflict-ridden. 

You're the last person to keep peace in a relationship. Look at the nature of your posts. People disagree with you only once and you start a 90 day argument with them. Before you go looking for a peaceful partner, try cultivating that attitude yourself. Practice before you begin to preach. You can't handle forum people, let alone a woman. From what I have seen, you completely lack any kind of self awareness or even the willingness to grow or learn. 

[mr_engineer]

14 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

You're the last person to keep peace in a relationship.

You are entitled to your judgements. 

15 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

People disagree with you only once and you start a 90 day argument with them. Before you go looking for a peaceful partner, try cultivating that attitude yourself. Practice before you begin to preach.

It's called figuring out the root-cause of the disagreement to weed it out. 

15 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

You can't handle forum people, let alone a woman. From what I have seen, you completely lack any kind of self awareness or even the willingness to grow or learn. 

I'd suggest you don't teach me to create peace. I've done it the way you're suggesting, the weak way. It hasn't worked. Now, it's time to stand up for your opinions and let the people who agree stay and the people who disagree leave. 

[Buck Edwards]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I'd suggest you don't teach me to create peace. I've done it the way you're suggesting, the weak way. It hasn't worked. Now, it's time to stand up for your opinions and let the people who agree stay and the people who disagree leave. 

Perfect example of how to create an echo chamber. If you want people to always agree with you and that's all that matters, then there are two words that describe this behavior - dogmatism and egotism. Foul ego is neither attractive nor bearable. 

[mr_engineer]

4 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Perfect example of how to create an echo chamber. If you want people to always agree with you and that's all that matters, then there are two words that describe this behavior - dogmatism and egotism. Foul ego is neither attractive nor bearable. 

My question is - why tolerate people who will disagree with you for no reason, who will just act hateful towards you?! Agreement is how you create peace, right?! Yeah, don't be scared of debates and have some integrity, so that you can intellectually protect your tribe, but that shouldn't be the end-goal, right?! 

[Sincerity]

3 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

I don't want a woman to challenge me. If she does that shit, I'm out. Next. 

Good luck in life then.

It's a "constant battle" to You only if You perceive it that way. I'll say to You that this is a weak mentality. There is a lot of difficulty in life and You can either see it as a challenge to go through or a constant battle like You say. You decide the frame.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Sincerity