How to Approach Spirituality as a Non-Spiritual Person?

[bmcnicho]

Basically back in 2016 I was a strict rationalist materialist.  Some personal difficulties made me more open to other perspectives, which was right around when I discovered Leo.  Following along with his teachings, along with listening to intellectuals like Jordan Peterson and John Vervaeke made me realize that rationality could be transcended.

But a couple years ago, I realized that even these higher quality ideas had their own limitations.  That’s when I got started with psychedelics.  I’ve done about 25 trips so far, and been opened up to a lot of radical things.  
 

The problem is, I don’t seem to be naturally inclined towards radical mysticism as some people here seem to be.  I have a fairly strong sense of identity, and need for control, and usually encounter quite a bit of resistance while tripping.

 I guess my question is, can a naturally anti-spiritual person still benefit from this work?  Maybe I’m just wanting this stuff to be an intellectual abstraction, without it impacting my actual life and reality too much.

[Hojo]

you need to abandon all logic. you arent logic you are consciousness you are literally an anti logic being. you need to shatter your experience as an individual in a universe and experience yourself as a character in consciousness as consciousness . Who are you as an invisible person? Who is that invisible thing thats just there? Live life with no regret god gives you infinite right to explore yourself. But you are not entitled to the outcomes of your actions. Which means the consequences to life are infinite. You define morals by who you are

How do I become the light? I am the black hole of life, I love life. I stop all nonsense and I love what is here and vibrate to the size of god

by studying philosophy and meta phycis you find god. You realize that you arent in your experience you are only your arms hands torso feet legs and nose, im not my brain cause i cant control my thoughts.

you can find god through logic you just have to find it and understand it. Its how I understood god.

God is literally the thing that you are when you dream its your fps of view and you are dreaming now. IRL is a dream

Edited September 7, 2023 by Hojo

[Davino]

7 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

 I guess my question is, can a naturally anti-spiritual person still benefit from this work?

What is this work? What do you want out of it?

Be clear with yourself. Why are you doing this? Is it because you want Truth? Or is it because you intuit there is something more? Is it because of suffering? Do you enjoy mystical experiences? Idk, what is it? Look inside yourself.

Why am I doing all of this in the end? Why so many trips, why this long search, what is sourcing this behaviour of mine?

Also be careful identifyng yourself as anti-spiritual. What do you mean by that? First of all, identity is fluid, hope we agree on that, everything changes and shifts. What is it about spirituality that you ar anti about? What do you define spirituality as even? Maybe you are trying to find spirit or consciousness in your own way, in a way it feels natural to you and that, does not fit with classic spiritual frameworks. Or maybe the tools you are using just won't yield the results you are searching for and you are just fooling yourself to mantain your confort zone and paradigm. What could it be? Idk, I'm not you.

In the end is an honest investigation about yourself that gives you the answers you are looking for. That's the only thing we can do in this forum, point you towards your Self and to the source were we all have gotten the answers from in the first place.

[Ulax]

If you're interested in meditation and also rather intellectually oriented, I imagine Shinzen Young's work could be of interest & value to you.

Here is, to my understanding, his latest guidebook:

https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SeeHearFeelIntroduction_ver1.8.pdf

He also has a youtube channel.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Ulax

[SamC]

8 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

Basically back in 2016 I was a strict rationalist materialist.  Some personal difficulties made me more open to other perspectives, which was right around when I discovered Leo.  Following along with his teachings, along with listening to intellectuals like Jordan Peterson and John Vervaeke made me realize that rationality could be transcended.

But a couple years ago, I realized that even these higher quality ideas had their own limitations.  That’s when I got started with psychedelics.  I’ve done about 25 trips so far, and been opened up to a lot of radical things.  
 

The problem is, I don’t seem to be naturally inclined towards radical mysticism as some people here seem to be.  I have a fairly strong sense of identity, and need for control, and usually encounter quite a bit of resistance while tripping.

 I guess my question is, can a naturally anti-spiritual person still benefit from this work?  Maybe I’m just wanting this stuff to be an intellectual abstraction, without it impacting my actual life and reality too much.

ACCEPT your logic. Right now you are resisting yourself as a not spiritual person which is the opposite of Spirituality. Spirituality is basically boiled down to one thing and that is ACCEPTENCE of your self.

You can only trancend something if you love it so if you want to trancend logic - learn to love it instead of resisting it.. and even more so - learn to love that you are resisting logic.

LOVE and ACCEPCT everything -

That's what spirituality means.

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by SamC

[ivankiss]

If you do the work correctly, you will inevitably realize that there is nothing "spiritual" and nothing "woo woo" about any of it. It's very simple, direct and obvious. It is about realizing and then abiding as the true nature. Consciousness. Nothing spiritual or mystical about it. It's just conscious. Yet... it is magical.

What you demonstrate in your original post is already a lot. Self - awareness, awareness of your limitations, curiosity, honesty, authenticity, open - mindedness... Those are all very, very important when it comes to "doing the work". Focus on direct experience. Investigate, explore the depths and dimensions of your being. At some point you should arrive to the source of it all.

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

The problem is, I don’t seem to be naturally inclined towards radical mysticism as some people here seem to be.  I have a fairly strong sense of identity, and need for control, and usually encounter quite a bit of resistance while tripping.

If I were you, I would propose the main objective of psychedelic work to release control. forget the rest, understanding, knowing, realizing God. All of that is basically control, greed. To go through the door you have to don't mind about going through the door. Your goal is to let yourself fall into the void, nothing more. break the barrier: you.

[Razard86]

21 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

Basically back in 2016 I was a strict rationalist materialist.  Some personal difficulties made me more open to other perspectives, which was right around when I discovered Leo.  Following along with his teachings, along with listening to intellectuals like Jordan Peterson and John Vervaeke made me realize that rationality could be transcended.

But a couple years ago, I realized that even these higher quality ideas had their own limitations.  That’s when I got started with psychedelics.  I’ve done about 25 trips so far, and been opened up to a lot of radical things.  
 

The problem is, I don’t seem to be naturally inclined towards radical mysticism as some people here seem to be.  I have a fairly strong sense of identity, and need for control, and usually encounter quite a bit of resistance while tripping.

 I guess my question is, can a naturally anti-spiritual person still benefit from this work?  Maybe I’m just wanting this stuff to be an intellectual abstraction, without it impacting my actual life and reality too much.

You are God. The only thing that holds you back is the little you's attachment. If you have an authentic desire for LOVE, and TRUTH YOU WILL AWAKEN 100 percent guaranteed. But do you? Many enter this work out of curiosity, and some out of a desire to transcend suffering. Nothing wrong with that but these motivations WILL NOT lead you all the way.

In fact many people with these issues/attachments do end up having a mystical experience and start having a Messiah Complex. So be careful with that. 

 

[jdc7733]

@bmcnicho I used to be same but then I developed paranoid schizophrenia, so for a time, all rationality went out the window. I would say some rationality tends to come back, but, most of the time, I just think sod it! Logic only logic only leads to more questions, but, the only significant conclusion I’ve come to through logic is you can’t trust anything, and, I suppose I can’t even trust that.