Pickup is fuckin hard

[Spiritedness]

@WonderSeeker I assume many of the approaches went just fine and you got the number etc. and you met up with the girl too, it's just that you didn't get laid. That's VASTLY different from whether or not an approach is considered a 'success'. Getting laid from the girl you approached when on a date with her is on a different ballpark. Taking this into account your post is not too nihilistically discouraging, but us that wanna begin this journey should see this post as a stern message to start taking this SERIOUSLY. Please never give up and keep trying, I wish you the best my friend.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Spiritedness

[Noahsteelers34]

Why do you think the guys who are actually getting laid don’t need to do thousands of “approaches”. It’s because there is no such thing as “cold approach to them”. Any time I’ve gotten laid, it was never from going out with the intention of “cold approaching” women. It was much more natural. 
 

this is what I’m realizing about dating. I was focused on cold approach, but that is completely unnatural to approach thousands of girls. 
 

go to party’s and socialize. Do social activities that are social. Talk to the person next to you in line, elevator, bus. If you feel called to say hi to someone say hi. It should feel light and natural, with a small level of tension. 
 

the other day I did this. I ended up going on a date with her, then taking her home and sleeping with her. 
 

All of this dating content is doing more harm than good, as your interaction with a women is completely natural and intuitive. You don’t need to force yourself to go to a mall just to cold approach women. 

[pablo_aka_god]

@Noahsteelers34 I disagree, if I would have waited for girls in my social circle to get attract to me I would still be a virgin. If you are good at social circle game great! but for people who don't then cold approaching is great for developing social skills. All of my sexual experiences have come from cold approaches and dating apps.

Edited September 6, 2023 by pablo_aka_god

[WonderSeeker]

13 hours ago, meta_male said:

What made you think throwing money at some dude who teaches you to chase after girls is going to get you laid?

Feedback. I don't need a coach to tell me to approach, I want to know what my blindspots are then course-correct. 

13 hours ago, Norbert Somogyi said:

Just make sure you don't evaluate your level of success based on laidcount. That is just a side-benefit that can potentially boost your morale if you handle it carefully. Otherwise it is your character that is supposed to be built on this journey.

Thank you. That's a helpful point.

@StarStruck I rarely watch porn.

12 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

1. Have you maximized your appearance? Gym and fashion would be your best friends here alongside good groming and even hair transplant if you need it (cannot tell). Looks are not the most important thing but they definitely make a difference, do not listen to PUA guys that think its just about your game.

2. Do you have hang ups from your past? Deep trauma or inner issues? Limiting beliefs? Work on those on top of going out.

3. Try daygame. Maybe your natural personality is better suited for it. At least that is the case for me and many people I know. Maybe you are a natural fish that is trying to swim in the desert. It does not work as well for him as swimming in the sea does. Maybe daygame is your sea.

4. Try to do social stuff also. Go to meetups, gatherings, events etc and talk to everyone. Social circle is way more powerful than cold approach and it is how most guys get their partners. You will not get laid massively for it but you can defiantly find a partner from it.

5. Persistence of course but you seem to have that in check which is very nice since it is the hardest thing.

6. Getting coaching is not bad per say but first of all I would avoid RSD guys and just focus on learning some basic principles and applying it. Once you have good experience you can hire someone to see you and fine tune details but most of the work is you doing it and self reflecting. Leos videos should be all the theory you need.

7. I have met PUA guys that do get girls sometimes but I ALWAYS notice that the ones that actually do well are really chill, natural and pleasant to talk to even as buddies. Meanwhile the ones that struggle, even if they do get laid have this weird over analytical almost autistic vibe around them which I find weird as fuck to be honest. If that is you try to change it. Just be yourself (cringe but it is mandatory).

Final question: Why are you doing pickup? What are your reasons and motivations? Is there a deeper meaning behind it for you?

1. Currently in the gym working on it. 

2. Also working on that.

3. Yes and no. 

4. That's actually a good idea. I just moved cities so will look into that.

5. Yep, the No Quit attitude is my foundation.

6. Have you ever received coaching? 

7. Ya, it's a progression. Part of it is social acuity and vibing, also dumping trauma energy. 

I am doing pickup first and foremost to become a great leader and to develop deep inner peace and love for people and life. When I was younger I became massively jaded and distrustful of people and numbed myself to it all. To me, spirituality is laughably easy compared to this. If I can handle dating and attraction to a T then 80% of life will be solved for me. I guess that's why it's so challenging HAHAH.

11 hours ago, flowboy said:

You know what I did have success with?

Talking to a girl whenever I was in the mood for it. Daytime, in the park, or just outside my house.

Relaxed. Curious. No pressure.

Here's what pickup guys don't realize: girls can feel it when guys had to psych themselves out and have this "fight" mentality.

It feels weird and tense for the girl because they can feel the amount of pressure a guy is putting on himself.

Coming from this "I'm so scared, it's the fight of my life" frame, you'll never come across as authentic.

Nobody wants to get to know someone who is SO scared and pushing themselves SO hard to get to know you.

Imagine that.

Someone trying to be your friend who has this tense anxious vibe around him, every time you say something nice to him he freaks out. He's been writing affirmations and journal posts about his attempts to be your friend.

It's weird

I actually miss park daytime. As you know I'm now in Arizona where it's too hot for that kind of thing haha. Fall will be epic tho.

Ya, shadow work is definitely a LARGE KEY in this. Let's do it.

@ValiantSalvatore Cool man, ya I'm getting much more into physical escalation. I actually eskimo kissed a girl then pulled her out of the club, full compliance, less than 2 mins into the interaction. I'm far from being shy about making moves. It's just a matter of more reps and better calibration, reading the play, and being smooth. 

I also have a high school friend who's a natural. I tell him "Dude you're fuckin hilarious, you have zero filter" and he's just like ya I guess. Does whatever he wants at the club, gets laid every other night. Some men are just born with it or had a good older brother that taught them. I had zero teaching combined with negative emotional programming regarding my sexuality as I grew up. So a lot of this is reversing a ton of bullshit.

@Jacob Morres Facts. It's about who you become in the face of adversity.

10 hours ago, universe said:

You want to gradually transition to making going out fun. If you always think about it as hard, there is this pushing energy and you will exhaust yourself. Do it for the fun first, girls come later.

For sure. The times where I had the most fun I got the best results. My sticking point is drawing state up from within. Takes time I guess.

10 hours ago, mmKay said:

Do you socialize throughout your day besides cold approach? How does your life look like?

I'm just putting together my life in a new city so yes and no. I moved to a place with no friends so kinda working from scratch. I do Uber so I meet some people and network thru that.

6 hours ago, Raze said:

Are you doing some sort of trauma release and meditation to get into flow? If you have a lot of internal blockages and are stuck in your head your results will be bad. 

how is your voice and tonality? If it’s not good do vocal exercises

Ya I used to do loads of meditation right before getting into seduction. I actually would meditate 30-60 min daily. Gonna bring that back as it did make me more relaxed in general.

6 hours ago, pablo_aka_god said:

Also 300 approaches in 5 months is a great number! you kicked ass

Thanks. When I first started I was nervous as fuck. Then I became chill and even enjoyed it late 2022 into early 2023. Now I've come full circle back to fear and anxiety. I think what's happening is I'm about to jump up another couple levels in the next few months. I'm breaking down old thought patterns and habits to jump into a new paradigm as I organize my energy and life.

___________________

Thanks for the insights y'all ! 

Edited September 6, 2023 by WonderSeeker

[Raze]

@WonderSeeker don’t just do concentration meditation alone, implement some kind of trauma release.

like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU1Rp184IT4

 

[WonderSeeker]

1 hour ago, Spiritedness said:

@WonderSeeker I assume many of the approaches went just fine and you got the number etc. and you met up with the girl too, it's just that you didn't get laid. That's VASTLY different from whether or not an approach is considered a 'success'. Getting laid from the girl you approached when on a date with her is on a different ballpark. Taking this into account your post is not too nihilistically discouraging, but us that wanna begin this journey should see this post as a stern message to start taking this SERIOUSLY. Please never give up and keep trying, I wish you the best my friend.

Actually, you're right! I conveniently left out some moderate successes. 

• last year in Mongolia I dated 5 women off Tinder and took 2 of them back to my hotel (made a really strong connection with this sweet, intelligent Japanese girl and we got down on all 4 dates)
• I've had like 3 or 4 insta-dates from daygame
• I pulled these 2 girls from nighttime in Miami but we didn't fuck, we just shared the bed (long story, don't wanna get into it lol)

Ya, to people reading this who want to get into seduction but are wondering if it will produce any fruits , PLEASE DO NOT THINK THAT THIS IS ME SAYING THIS SHIT DOES NOT WORK. IT ABSOLUTELY DOES. It's just that it will 99.9% likely not be a linear progression of pure failure to pure success. It's a hero's journey, perhaps the most challenging one you'll ever have to embark like it is for me.

37 minutes ago, Noahsteelers34 said:

It should feel light and natural, with a small level of tension. 

the other day I did this. I ended up going on a date with her, then taking her home and sleeping with her. 

All of this dating content is doing more harm than good, as your interaction with a women is completely natural and intuitive. You don’t need to force yourself to go to a mall just to cold approach women. 

Good point. But for people who don't have any requisite skill, you have to start somewhere to bust through early limitations. Then you can go more off intuition and stop conceptualizing attraction. Again, for some people this is a non-issue. Different people require different styles and levels of solution. 

How the fuck SHOULD this feel "light and natural" for men who were socially/sexually traumatized early in life? Logically it makes perfect sense, but the emotional midbrain hasn't caught up yet. People who just "get it" will never understand. And that's fine, they don't need this advice.

[ValiantSalvatore]

25 minutes ago, WonderSeeker said:

Cool man, ya I'm getting much more into physical escalation. I actually eskimo kissed a girl then pulled her out of the club, full compliance, less than 2 mins into the interaction. I'm far from being shy about making moves. It's just a matter of more reps and better calibration, reading the play, and being smooth. 

I also have a high school friend who's a natural. I tell him "Dude you're fuckin hilarious, you have zero filter" and he's just like ya I guess. Does whatever he wants at the club, gets laid every other night. Some men are just born with it or had a good older brother that taught them. I had zero teaching combined with negative emotional programming regarding my sexuality as I grew up. So a lot of this is reversing a ton of bullshit.

That's cool, yeah hanging with naturals is definitely is great & fun and can show a more direct & sincere way, depending on how it truely is, although now I've seen a true gamer who turned natural that is kinda goated. Sounds also very cool that you did this kind of escalation, many would not have the balls to do smth. like this, me included. 

Every natural who'd b.s on game I ever meet is so acutely focused on physical cues, it's heavy and they comback complaining often omfg did you not see XYZ are you drunk? And I am like bro I just did not see what happend, and explain the story. Yeah, I know I've been bullied a lot do to naturally having some exhuberant sexual quality and projections, and I self denied as it was to much due to social pressure in school, so I had more akwardly forced social sexual interactions which inhibits me from escalating although many want it. A date this year for example told me, she'd wanted to be held etc. I never noticed nor did I care, I noticed this with other guys also who were in this self-denial, due to how difficult it can be when there is a lack of social skills & interaction with the opposite gender from the same gender, I knew this, yet this does not change as much, only with experience imo, trauma & shadow work works a bit differently, yet helps this procces imo. 

I made more efforts to befriend girls, than to actually date them in my 20's that was also kind of cool, I notice even now beign more "popular" is the more holistic way of doing this instead of building rotations. Especially, now I notice how valueable it is to build a social network. 

Every time I took physical esclative type action I got into some type of sexual action, that was great I disliked many PUA's as it was so much about technique and not about observatory qualities and observatory type game & survival in a sense, where naturals are more about this, and it felt to expensive. I payed 1,4k max though for any type of game I learned, although the best has been free by now. I bought the hotseat home program, yet did not do the program, I was scared as I knew a lot of people in my old city and I did not like it that it was not as anonymous etc. I loved it when going out felt like hunting. 

Anyway, I was so focused on getting online-dating running I hope it will work out still, due to injury and just knowing my lazy qualities that I can get laid through beign more social. Anyway,  I am out mostly out of this thread, which you the best & much success!!

Edited September 6, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[Noahsteelers34]

@pablo_aka_god Im not saying don’t talk to new girls. I’m just saying the whole paradigm of “cold approach”, does guys more harm than good. 
 

instead be a social guy. Pick up turns getting laid into some complex puzzle. I’ve also never got laid thru social circle. I got laid thru being social, and being natural. 
 

yes be highly social and talk to new people, but remove the paradigm of pickup.  

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Spiritedness said:

@Leo Gura As a person who went through a lot of trial-and-error in pick-up yourself, how do you explain this? 0/400 seems rare or are we having too high-hopes for pick-up success?

That number is quite normal. Pickup has a steep learning curve.

Results should be judged not by lays but responsive phone numbers, dates, good interactions, etc. Especially in the beginning.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Leo Gura

[PurpleTree]

Do you feel mentally better now after doing it for 400 times?

Does the fear and pain of rejection diminish?

i‘ve never really tried „pick up“

[kamill]

Go harder 400 is nothing I did 400 in couple of weeks.  The result will come. What help me at the beginning is to be direct she has to know you wanna fuck here not just a friend. if you do it you will get laid even by accident 

[WonderSeeker]

7 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Do you feel mentally better now after doing it for 400 times?

Does the fear and pain of rejection diminish?

Ya typical rejections mean nothing to me anymore. In fact some of them make me genuinely lol

The only times it hurts is when chode guy friends jump in and talk shit or if I realize I said/did something super cringe even tho I knew it was wrong. 95% of people just go out with the same social circle so when they see a guy with balls approach their female friend, they shit talk him; what's really going on there is they're triggered cuz they would never have the balls to do it and so they feel that hurling insults will make them superior. Anyway...

@kamill Stud.

Edited September 7, 2023 by WonderSeeker

[Yimpa]

15 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

But here's the thing: I am not giving up, I'm only going to go harder. I've made it my goal to go out EVERY night and walk around the club area just to get in the habit of being out there without necessarily approaching. Then on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday try and get together with wings to go ham. 

Beautiful  Also consider hanging out with women casually, just as friends. Being open to understanding women from different perspectives / angles is key to long-term success.

As with anything else you want to master.

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Beautiful  Also consider hanging out with women casually, just as friends. Being open to understanding women from different perspectives / angles is key to long-term success.

As with anything else you want to master.

Wholesome ???

[Raze]

2 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

Ya typical rejections mean nothing to me anymore. In fact some of them make me genuinely lol

The only times it hurts is when code guy friends jump in and talk shit or if I realize I said/did something super cringe even tho I knew it was wrong. 95% of people just go out with the same social circle so when they see a guy with balls approach their female friend, they shit talk him; what's really going on there is they're triggered cuz they would never have the balls to do it and so they feel that hurling insults will make them superior. Anyway...

@kamill Stud.

You shouldn’t approach a girl in a group by directly hitting on her right away in most cases.

[Jacob Morres]

7 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

Facts. It's about who you become in the face of adversity

Exactly bro. You're forging a beast ?

[D2sage]

A women wants what another women has.

I recommend going out with a female friend to do pickup. 

So many guys are looking thirsty without realizing it and it can put a girl off. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by D2sage

[itsadistraction]

Men and women have the same problem: they want to hook up but initiating conversation without cringe,  intimidation or awkwardness is hard. 

Steal other people's swagger, vibe, confidence, demeanor, flow, and maybe cheap tactics to get some practice and comfortable talking to strangers. FYI that's what a woman is, she is a stranger who is attractive to you. But her "soul' is no different than a grandma in a wheelchair who lost her legs to diabetes. Everyone craves love and acceptance from others. 

Steal other people's swagger like this guy.....

https://youtu.be/6oC-7ikR41w?si=m6FgkJAwCLREUY44

Edited September 7, 2023 by itsadistraction

[Ulax]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:27 AM, mr_engineer said:

Are you nuts?! Who spends 10k to learn to go talk to people?! That's a really crappy deal. If you'd spent that on dating-apps, you would've gotten more success. No, seriously, look around at your married friends and ask them how much they've spent to learn pick-up. 

You got scammed. Matchmakers take less than that to set you up on dates! 

About pick-up - the only reason to do it is to learn the basics of overcoming approach-anxiety, state and frame. Past that, it's not worth it. The highest-quality women you can get into workable relationships with through pick-up are 8s. 9s and 10s are very cut-throat. They look at a PUA/player in his 20s and think 'loser'. If you're 30+, maybe you can get 9s and 10s through pick-up. I'm not sure. (And I'm talking about workable relationships, not situationships). 

A much better use of your money is to go to a dance-class. Maybe salsa, maybe bachata, maybe tango. Whatever you're into. Are you comfortable dancing with women?! If not, what will you do on a dance-floor?! What the eff was your goal, even, when you throw your money at scammy, sketchy PUAs?! 

Dude, you gotta humble yourself imo.

[PurpleTree]

14 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

Ya typical rejections mean nothing to me anymore. In fact some of them make me genuinely lol

The only times it hurts is when chode guy friends jump in and talk shit or if I realize I said/did something super cringe even tho I knew it was wrong. 95% of people just go out with the same social circle so when they see a guy with balls approach their female friend, they shit talk him; what's really going on there is they're triggered cuz they would never have the balls to do it and so they feel that hurling insults will make them superior. Anyway...

 

ok that's great. i mean it could also have been that you get traumatised or re-traumatised from certain situations and end up worse than before

Edited September 7, 2023 by PurpleTree