Pickup is fuckin hard

[WonderSeeker]

Pickup is not easy. In fact I believe its way harder than spirituality, lol. 

I'm 25. I've already spent 10k in coaching (including 2 RSD bootcamps), done 400 cold approaches in 2 years (with 300 of them being in the last 5 months), and gotten laid 0 times. 

Between July 2021 and now, my fear around going out and approaching was reducing, but shot back up in the past month (not sure why). My skill was plateauing and after just working with Jeffy infield, my game got worse. (Part of the natural progression??) 

For the typical person, this would be sufficient grounds for quitting. 400 approaches, no intimacy, and now getting worse? Hell, I'm almost reluctant to post this as it might deter newbies. But proper expectations go a long way. 

But here's the thing: I am not giving up, I'm only going to go harder. I've made it my goal to go out EVERY night and walk around the club area just to get in the habit of being out there without necessarily approaching. Then on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday try and get together with wings to go ham. 

This is the only way. I'm scared at the soul level, but I've got to do it. It's the fight of my life. Who can relate?

 

[meta_male]

1 hour ago, WonderSeeker said:

I've already spent 10k in coaching (including 2 RSD bootcamps), done 400 cold approaches in 2 years (with 300 of them being in the last 5 months), and gotten laid 0 times. 

What made you think throwing money at some dude who teaches you to chase after girls is going to get you laid?

[oldhandle]

Maybe because when you go up to a girl solo, she doesn't see any social proof. If you are a well-liked member of a group and approach women within that, surely it's better odds?

[Norbert Somogyi]

It is possible that your priorities are not in the best order. There could be underlying psychological issues / anxieties that are severely holding you back from succeeding in this field. If you could spend 10k on RSD coaches, you certainly can spend that on developing your character and life including Leo's Life Purpose course. 

Just watch Leo's How To Get Laid series thoroughly and see where you could be focusing backwards.

 

EDIT: 400 approaches are great! Some people reach their first cherry after even more approaches. Not everyone is the same.

Just make sure you don't evaluate your level of success based on laidcount. As explained in the recommended series above, that is just a side-benefit that can potentially boost your morale if you handle it carefully. Otherwise it is your character that is supposed to be built on this journey.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Norbert Somogyi
Additional thoughts

[Leo Gura]

Yup, it's hard. Stick with it, don't quit.

[mr_engineer]

2 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

I'm 25. I've already spent 10k in coaching (including 2 RSD bootcamps), done 400 cold approaches in 2 years (with 300 of them being in the last 5 months), and gotten laid 0 times. 

Are you nuts?! Who spends 10k to learn to go talk to people?! That's a really crappy deal. If you'd spent that on dating-apps, you would've gotten more success. No, seriously, look around at your married friends and ask them how much they've spent to learn pick-up. 

You got scammed. Matchmakers take less than that to set you up on dates! 

About pick-up - the only reason to do it is to learn the basics of overcoming approach-anxiety, state and frame. Past that, it's not worth it. The highest-quality women you can get into workable relationships with through pick-up are 8s. 9s and 10s are very cut-throat. They look at a PUA/player in his 20s and think 'loser'. If you're 30+, maybe you can get 9s and 10s through pick-up. I'm not sure. (And I'm talking about workable relationships, not situationships). 

A much better use of your money is to go to a dance-class. Maybe salsa, maybe bachata, maybe tango. Whatever you're into. Are you comfortable dancing with women?! If not, what will you do on a dance-floor?! What the eff was your goal, even, when you throw your money at scammy, sketchy PUAs?! 

[StarStruck]

I was on a free tour and I remember a guy going on a hissy fit about how he spend 25k and got no results. People think spending money on shit will give them results. I don't know where this logic comes from but it is very toxic. Pickup is about removing bad conditioning, not adding extra conditioning. Your instincts already know what to do. Just stop watching porn and you will find a way.

[Karmadhi]

There are many things here you need to take into account:

1. Have you maximized your appearance? Gym and fashion would be your best friends here alongside good groming and even hair transplant if you need it (cannot tell). Looks are not the most important thing but they definitely make a difference, do not listen to PUA guys that think its just about your game.

2. Do you have hang ups from your past? Deep trauma or inner issues? Limiting beliefs? Work on those on top of going out.

3. Try daygame. Maybe your natural personality is better suited for it. At least that is the case for me and many people I know. Maybe you are a natural fish that is trying to swim in the desert. It does not work as well for him as swimming in the sea does. Maybe daygame is your sea.

4. Try to do social stuff also. Go to meetups, gatherings, events etc and talk to everyone. Social circle is way more powerful than cold approach and it is how most guys get their partners. You will not get laid massively for it but you can defiantly find a partner from it.

5. Persistence of course but you seem to have that in check which is very nice since it is the hardest thing.

6. Getting coaching is not bad per say but first of all I would avoid RSD guys and just focus on learning some basic principles and applying it. Once you have good experience you can hire someone to see you and fine tune details but most of the work is you doing it and self reflecting. Leos videos should be all the theory you need.

7. I have met PUA guys that do get girls sometimes but I ALWAYS notice that the ones that actually do well are really chill, natural and pleasant to talk to even as buddies. Meanwhile the ones that struggle, even if they do get laid have this weird over analytical almost autistic vibe around them which I find weird as fuck to be honest. If that is you try to change it. Just be yourself (cringe but it is mandatory).

Final question: Why are you doing pickup? What are your reasons and motivations? Is there a deeper meaning behind it for you?

Edited September 6, 2023 by Karmadhi

[flowboy]

3 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

This is the only way. I'm scared at the soul level, but I've got to do it. It's the fight of my life. Who can relate?

I can relate. I felt that way when I was going out alone to do pickup by myself, feeling massive shame and anxiety, day in and day out.

Pushing myself. It's the fight of my life and all that.

I never had much success while having that frame of mind.

You know what I did have success with?

Talking to a girl whenever I was in the mood for it. Daytime, in the park, or just outside my house.

Relaxed. Curious. No pressure.

 

Here's what pickup guys don't realize: girls can feel it when guys had to psych themselves out and have this "fight" mentality.

It feels weird and tense for the girl because they can feel the amount of pressure a guy is putting on himself.

Coming from this "I'm so scared, it's the fight of my life" frame, you'll never come across as authentic.

Nobody wants to get to know someone who is SO scared and pushing themselves SO hard to get to know you.

Imagine that.

Someone trying to be your friend who has this tense anxious vibe around him, every time you say something nice to him he freaks out. He's been writing affirmations and journal posts about his attempts to be your friend.

It's weird

Now, I feel your pain.

It's hard to get out of the tense, anxious, "pushing and overcoming", challenging-yourself state.

I know, sometimes it happens to me too and I'm by no means good at pickup. (I get laid though)

I LIVED in that state almost constantly until I was about 27.

I'm just making a point: pushing, overcoming, challenging yourself, forcing through massive anxiety does not attract people, it repels people.

What to do instead?

1. Do shadow work and release the conditioning from your childhood. You have it, although you're probably not aware of it. It's the only cause of low self-worth: people with no self-worth issues are not afraid to approach people. (Think about it: approach anxiety is what happens when you perceive someone to be way higher status and more valuable than you. Now if you were approaching a celebrity it would make sense. Why should your subconscious assume a stranger who hasn't proven anything to you to be way higher status than you? Why should there be fear?
   It comes from having been an outsider in earlier life, and that comes from other subtle traumas which you can release and thereby raise your self esteem (see my video on this))
2. Combine this with approaching, but in a different way: only go so far that your system doesn't freak out.
   1. Check in with yourself frequently: how anxious am I? How fast is my heartbeat? Am I in my head or am I still connected to my body? Can I sense my body and can I feel my feelings, or am I freaking out with racing thoughts?
   2. If some action step would take you over the edge towards feeling anxious and having to push through it, don't do it. For example, if just saying hi and then leaving would not freak you out, but trying to have a long conversation would, then don't go for the long conversation at that moment.
      And if saying anything at all would get you anxious but just high fiving someone still feels okay, then only do that.
      And after everything you do, check back in: am I anxious. am I in my head. am I dissociating and watching myself or thinking too much.
   3. This way you are off to a slower start but you'll actually get real intimacy later in the night (or day). You'll be able to say and do much more without freaking out.
      This is the only way
      Why must it be this way? Because you have baggage from childhood and a symptom of that is approach anxiety.
      Stop freaking yourself out (nothing good happens from a pushing-through-anxiety-hardcore state), take it slow, and release this baggage. It's the fastest way to get results.

TLDR: do shadow work and learn to get into a flow state by staying under your trigger boundary, then expanding it.

 

[ValiantSalvatore]

I can't relate as much, yet I'd love to be better at pick-up I do have my own issues, I bet 90% of the issues are due to non-verbal communcation and not escalating, for example I went on a Tinder date that was casual and instead of going for the non-physical round we went dancing and I escalated within the first 20 minutes of the date pretty hard kissing and touching her boobies, as she basically was just interested in intimacy and depth of connection physically. 

I can relate in a different way, yet I bet you'd get faster results by just physically escalating and doing some of the cringe stuff, you'd fear. First ever approach I did drunk at a party I got laid and did not even lay her as I thought this was to easy no way this just worked talking beign intimate and listening to body-language, first time I had sex with a girl for 2-4h I did not cum like Owen Cook for example tells a similar more horrendous story. 

10th approach in a club, I've fingered a girl almost just by beign a bit bold and physically escalating and it was super fun, just beign better at physical cues and reading them, for example I went out with an experienced guy who was pretty hyped about my doing any approach as most guys are afraid, and I had to partially approach strangers living in a foreign country, so there is not as much inhibition, yet more a lack of social skill. He gave me feedback about some stuff, and I told him wtf do I not just kiss her? His perception and mine were totally off, yet he was more experienced, and he told me if you see it that way then just go for the instant make-out etc. 

I hope I can meet him again soonish and do some minor game for social skills, yet this is quiet universal. I did more other social stuff, and now I am able to read more cues from girls at work also, and I am at a highly social work place for an software engineer, so I dunno. I bet it's part of progression, what botheres me in my own development is that I am often times not doing my own analysis about my own problems and own solutions and then ask others for proper feedback, this has helped my by far the most in any endeavour... as you get closer to natural and authentic. 

Another example... a friend of mine knows nothing about game, yet get's laid very often due to beign natural, chill and dominante in nature, I could run a different personality analysis if that is even interesting as I saw some other sites doing this as of recently, yet he's also a chicken due to his fear of escalating, if he'd be willing to be more subtely socially acceptable cringe and kiss the girl etc. Stuff would flow way way easier. 
You could also look to setup your own parties and events, and social circles even if it includes food etc, even invite a girl for cooking if you've been out and definitely, or invite girls to a rave and make also guy friends, so you provide more direct value. 

Last two dates I've had are friends now and I got invited to a party, it's very good in that sense to broaden ones social circle and sometimes "keeping it real and close" can be a fake and defensive maneouver, I'd seriously would look into expanding ones network and see it all also as partially networking. 

If you did not read I'd recommend reading Chateau Heartise, yet the book is quite fked in a sense and it would show you the manipulative red side of game more than the authentic side, yet that can give you insight as into why certain approaches and certain types exist, and you can opt for the healthy alternative etc. Takes maybe a bit more energy, yet many would appreciate this. Leo's take with the current paradigm Owen runs, definitely helps a lot. Developing masculine presence for example through meditation etc. 

I get my fair share of toxic girls apparently also, so I dunno I was also interested in some really dirty networking, where I'd befriend OnlyFans girls just to explore my fantasy etc. Yet, one friend of mine judged me because of this now I dunno, most would love to do this, yet are again afraid... & other stuff also. This was sort of exploring my karma. 

I am also super afraid to go out solo, biggest thing I am afraid of is approaching the girls who I am attracted to. I did maximally 20-30 approaches in my life, so I dunno. 

I'd look deeper into this as a holistic aspect of social development, I've went out plenty of times as a teen most parties are extremely boring, so it takes a lot of time to enjoy even that due to going out 2-3x a week since I was 14-20 with heavy drinking, not all of it has been good, yet I make a lot of friends when I go out, even when I forget them and vice-versa. You could wing guys also and ask them if they're interested in getting girls etc. so many guys talk about this at night, especially young 21-30 even etc. etc.

Edited September 6, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[Jacob Morres]

super relate man

not in pua but im def facing my own challenges in life

but personally i see it like this... challenge is what breeds growth. and it eventually breeds into beauty. so when you embrace it, it leads to something good

maybe some might say.. challenge is beautiful (because of what comes from it)

in psych terms... 'u-stress'

Edited September 6, 2023 by Jacob Morres

[universe]

As @flowboy already said. This goes deeper. Think therapy session deeper.

Techniques and just approaching won't do the trick alone. They are too surface level.

Also invest in a good coach who knows about these deeper levels, has been there themselves and can show you results. Do your research.

 

You want to gradually transition to making going out fun. If you always think about it as hard, there is this pushing energy and you will exhaust yourself. Do it for the fun first, girls come later.

[mmKay]

Do you socialize throughout your day besides cold approach? How does your life look like?

[Raze]

Do a 4 week natural, honest Signalz, or unlimited man project bootcamp, they are better because they cover a longer period. If they are too expensive you can try a bootcamp with squattincasanova, ag hayden, or Karisma king, they are cheaper.

do you have a pet dog? If so try walking him when you approach.

Follow a program like hot seat at home, the system or Austen Summers game transformation, do the exercises, try different styles and keep track of the responses, write field reports, if possible record yourself and send clips to competent coaches to explain what mistakes you are making.

https://www.girlschase.com/article/why-cold-approach-isnt-social-beginners

https://www.girlschase.com/article/chases-14-basic-approaching-rules-pickup-newbies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hOwNudcVgI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XCPnFSoqWQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIx-MfnA358

Are you doing some sort of trauma release and meditation to get into flow? If you have a lot of internal blockages and are stuck in your head your results will be bad. 

how is your voice and tonality? If it’s not good do vocal exercises

Edited September 6, 2023 by Raze

[pablo_aka_god]

Thanks for sharing your experience! I'm in my own journey with pickup as well. have you noticed any progress since you started? eg: maybe before you sounded very nervous and now you are able to be calm, make eye contact and enjoy a little more? if so then you are on the right path

Edited September 6, 2023 by pablo_aka_god

[pablo_aka_god]

it's very important to enjoy this shit. Otherwise you will quit. I really liked what @flowboy said about: "learn to get into a flow state by staying under your trigger boundary, then expanding it"

[pablo_aka_god]

Also 300 approaches in 5 months is a great number! you kicked ass

[mmKay]

@WonderSeeker

[The Redeemer]

11 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

Pickup is not easy. In fact I believe its way harder than spirituality, lol. 

I'm 25. I've already spent 10k in coaching (including 2 RSD bootcamps), done 400 cold approaches in 2 years (with 300 of them being in the last 5 months), and gotten laid 0 times. 

Between July 2021 and now, my fear around going out and approaching was reducing, but shot back up in the past month (not sure why). My skill was plateauing and after just working with Jeffy infield, my game got worse. (Part of the natural progression??) 

For the typical person, this would be sufficient grounds for quitting. 400 approaches, no intimacy, and now getting worse? Hell, I'm almost reluctant to post this as it might deter newbies. But proper expectations go a long way. 

But here's the thing: I am not giving up, I'm only going to go harder. I've made it my goal to go out EVERY night and walk around the club area just to get in the habit of being out there without necessarily approaching. Then on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday try and get together with wings to go ham. 

This is the only way. I'm scared at the soul level, but I've got to do it. It's the fight of my life. Who can relate?

 

It is fucking hard. But who cares. Just take what you want and stop giving a fuck. Once you stop letting society dictate your reality it becomes easy.

Learn how to fight and defend yourself and don't take shit from anybody.

And most importantly...

LEAD!!!

[Spiritedness]

@Leo Gura As a person who went through a lot of trial-and-error in pick-up yourself, how do you explain this? 0/400 seems rare or are we having too high-hopes for pick-up success?