Donald Trump before 2015

[How to be wise]

I think to study the spiral level of Donald Trump, we have to look at him before he launched his presidential campaign in 2015. After 2015, he obviously made sure that his positions would agree with the Republican base since he was running. Here’s Trump’s political positions before 2015:

“Before Donald Trump ran for President of the United States as a Republican in 2015, he had a history of affiliating with various political parties, including the Democratic Party. His political views during those times were generally more centrist and, in some cases, aligned more closely with Democratic stances than the conservative positions he later adopted.

Economic Views

Trump was generally pro-business, favouring deregulation and lower taxes. However, he also supported universal healthcare at various points, a position more commonly associated with Democrats.

Social Issues

On social issues, Trump was relatively moderate compared to his later Republican platform. He was pro-choice for a period and supported gay rights, including advocating for the amendment of the 1964 Civil Rights Act to include discrimination against gays.

Foreign Policy

Trump's foreign policy views were less clearly defined before his presidential run, but he was critical of the Iraq War, a position that aligned him with many Democrats at the time.

Party Affiliation and Political Donations

Trump's party affiliation fluctuated over the years. He was registered as a Democrat for several years and even considered running for the New York mayoral office as a Democrat. He also made donations to Democratic candidates, including Hillary Clinton.

Public Statements

Trump often made public statements that were less ideologically rigid before his 2015 presidential campaign. For example, he praised Bill Clinton's presidency and was critical of George W. Bush, particularly over the Iraq War.

Reform and Government

Trump expressed views in favour of campaign finance reform and was critical of the influence of lobbyists, a stance that resonated with many Democrats.

It's important to note that Trump's views were not consistently Democratic or liberal, even when he was registered as a Democrat. His political positions seemed to be pragmatic and issue-specific rather than strictly ideological. This flexibility in political views has led some to describe him as a political chameleon, adapting his positions to suit his goals and the prevailing political climate.”

All in all, this is very significant when trying to pinpoint his spiral level. If you were to assess him based only on the above, rather than post-2015, what spiral level would you allocate him?

[kylan11]

I spent an unholy amount of hours studying the man. He has absolutely zero moral principles. He just adopts what it's in his interests in that particular circumstance. Even that might not be entirely accurate since he's not strategic and is incapable of long term thinking. He simply acts on his narcissistic impulses and emotional urges. 

Regardless of how he may have adapted his "views" to better his chances of winning the presidency back in 2015, his spiral stage has been the same from when he was 3 years old. I recommend Mary Trump's book if you're interested on diving deep on his psychology and the root causes of his personality. Fascinating read.

[ryandesreu]

@How to be wise  determining SD level should be done based on the person's actions on average more than words. I can say that things must be done to improve the environment but if I drive around in a Hummer all day chopping down trees is this stage green?

The traits you described define stages orange through yellow, but was that his behavior or just words?

Edited September 3, 2023 by ryandesreu

[How to be wise]

26 minutes ago, ryandesreu said:

@How to be wise  determining SD level should be done based on the person's actions on average more than words. I can say that things must be done to improve the environment but if I drive around in a Hummer all day chopping down trees is this stage green?

The traits you described define stages orange through yellow, but was that his behavior or just words?

I think words do matter. In your example, why would the person driving the hummer say that we must improve the environment? How would that benefit him? Clearly he must believe in climate change to a certain degree. 

[ryandesreu]

5 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Why would the person driving the hummer say that we must improve the environment? 

Just to win an election, and/or rules for thee and not for me.

I think that words matter to a degree but ultimately it's the person's actions and lifestyle that determine the stage.

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by ryandesreu

[How to be wise]

@ryandesreu Remember that spiral dynamics measures value. If somebody really argues for a particular position or stance, we must assume they agree with it, even if their actions aren’t fully aligned with it. 

For example, most stage blue people in the Middle East aren’t priests or pundits. They live an average life. The only way you’d know if they were religious is if you asked them.

[ryandesreu]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

@ryandesreu 

 

For example, most stage blue people in the Middle East aren’t priests or pundits. They live an average life. The only way you’d know if they were religious is if you asked them.

Are you saying that if you asked me what stage I was at and I said tier 3, and then I said some cliche things that I read in a book about tier 3, then you would consider me to be tier 3?

I'm more on the side of - you have to walk the talk in order to be at a certain stage but I can see some truth to what you are saying.

[How to be wise]

@ryandesreu Yes, if you consistently spoke like a turquoise person, then we’d have to assume you are in turquoise. Think about it, how do you know that Osho and Sadhguru are in tier 3? How will their actions reveal that they are in tier 3? If we analysed them based only on actions, there’s no way we could differentiate them from tier 2 or even tier 1.