There is no such thing as reincarnation

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

This entire thread is word games.....

This entire forum is word games. Welcome to the internet. 

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

There is actually some anecdotal evidence backing up reincarnation. People who remember their past lives .

 

@Someone here one of my dearest friends affirms to have experienced past lives. But I just don't believe him totally, he could totally be "imagining" that.

[Breakingthewall]

sounds possible. life is evolution. The energetic patterns that make up a given entity evolve throughout life. Species also evolve, everything does, and there is a continuity in evolution, a memory. Why couldn't it be like that on the metaphysical level? surely it is

[Tudo]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

sounds possible. life is evolution. The energetic patterns that make up a given entity evolve throughout life. Species also evolve, everything does, and there is a continuity in evolution, a memory. Why couldn't it be like that on the metaphysical level? surely it is

So you are assuming the universe/consciousness has biases? Egos have biases, not consciousness.

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, Tudo said:

So you are assuming the universe/consciousness has biases? Egos have biases, not consciousness.

Of course is has, If this were not the case, reality would be an undifferentiated soup. Reality has a bias towards increasingly complex and perfect structures, towards precise and ordered creations, not chaotic. just observe the universe

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

And as Bazooko said correctly: ALL of that is manifested/incarnated/imagined right here and right now, including the imagined past/history/Karma/Reincarnation/all of it. But that would be the Absolute Truth. And as long as the relative/manifestation side has emotional impact, philosophizing from and flying high  more towards the Absolute Side of Truth is dangerous terrain... as recently demonstrated here quite impressively.

Very true. Some of us Spiritualoholics can definitely go WAY overboard with our attachment to nondual insight... and there is no doubt in my mind that being completely caught up in the absolute perspective is every bit as delusional as being stuck in dualistic thinking. There certainly are some striking examples of fellow forum members where the pendulum has swung from one extreme aaaaaall the way to the other and where the previous mantra of "life is a god forsaken dualistic hellhole" has all of a sudden given way to an neverending litany of "All is God, there are no humans, death and time isn't real, form is illusion, relative existence isn't a thing, wtf are you retarded materialists even talking about?!"

A step above that sort of overbearing Absolutism lies what one might call the integral perspective (little nod to your special buddy Ken ) which includes both the absolute and the relative perspective. I myself am still struggling with this, but I think I am slowly getting there.

[Tudo]

47 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Of course is has, If this were not the case, reality would be an undifferentiated soup. Reality has a bias towards increasingly complex and perfect structures, towards precise and ordered creations, not chaotic. just observe the universe

But what makes you think that the universe's biases are like human biases?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Tudo said:

But what makes you think that the universe's biases are like human biases?

Ultimately human biases are the biases of the universe. you are the universe existing. your bias towards survival, the movement of the collective ego mind in a certain direction, your desire at a given moment to open to the mind of the universe, all these are biases of reality.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, SamC said:

There is no such thing as no reincarnation

Try to prove me wrong

Everything's true and untrue....hence this entire thread is word games. You could both prove reincarnation to not be true or to be true....depending on how you look at it. For example.....since everything is nothing....nothing ever happened....so no reincarnation.

But if you see nothing as something....then reincarnation is always happening.....it's happening right now in every moment. Since every moment...is new. So....depending on how you look at it....something happened, nothing happened....both are true...depending on how you look at it. It's why memory is a thing...without imagining memory....you would never KNOW something happened after it happened. Memory is how we create something...without recollection....nothing ever happened. Memory is how we create TIME. As we imagine a past through memory, and then use memory to predict a future. No memory....no past, no future, only a fleeting present...that is forgotten as soon as it happens.....

[SamC]

Just now, Razard86 said:

Everything's true and untrue....hence this entire thread is word games. You could both prove reincarnation to not be true or to be true....depending on how you look at it. For example.....since everything is nothing....nothing ever happened....so no reincarnation.

But if you see nothing as something....then reincarnation is always happening.....it's happening right now in every moment. Since every moment...is new. So....depending on how you look at it....something happened, nothing happened....both are true...depending on how you look at it. It's why memory is a thing...without imagining memory....you would never KNOW something happened after it happened. Memory is how we create something...without recollection....nothing ever happened. Memory is how we create TIME. As we imagine a past through memory, and then use memory to predict a future. No memory....no past, no future, only a fleeting present...that is forgotten as soon as it happens.....

My point☝️

[ActualizedJohn]

I mean technically Leo would say your imaging reincarnation, or any future reincarnations or past reincarnations. Reincarnation is imaginary, the past is imaginary, the future is imaginary. Almost like you constantly only have existed for one second 

[Inliytened1]

One word.  Infinity.  Infinity is everything.  And nothing.   So it has to include every possible experience.  At the same time all of it never was.   Where people get tripped up is that all that exists in the realm of form is what is right now.   But all that exists includes everything- which is the potential for any form.  So in a nutshell - it is not logical, but paradoxical.  In other words, you are all of it now - you are your mother now, you are your dog now... but you have fooled yourself into thinking you are one form.   Whether you are going to one day fool yourself into thinking you are looking through their eyes becomes irrelevant. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Bulgarianspirit]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

One word.  Infinity.  Infinity is everything.  And nothing.   So it has to include every possible experience.  At the same time all of it never was.   Where people get tripped up is that all that exists in the realm of form is what is right now.   But all that exists includes everything- which is the potential for any form.  So in a nutshell - it is not logical, but paradoxical.  In other words, you are all of it now - you are your mother now, you are your dog now... but you have fooled yourself into thinking you are one form.   Whether you are going to one day fool yourself into thinking you are looking through their eyes becomes irrelevant. 

Incarnation is basically consciousness limiting itself through a finite form, tricking itself. So reincarnation would be doing it more than once, whether you remember or not is irrelevant.

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, Bulgarianspirit said:

Incarnation is basically consciousness limiting itself through a finite form, tricking itself. So reincarnation would be doing it more than once, whether you remember or not is irrelevant.

I'm saying it's irrelevant whether it happens more than once or not - because you are already all beings presently.    You're searching for an answer that doesn't matter unless you make it matter.   Which means its imaginary.   But hell, what isn't. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Bulgarianspirit]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

I'm saying it's irrelevant whether it happens more than once or not - because you are already all beings presently.    You're searching for an answer that doesn't matter unless you make it matter.   Which means its imaginary.   But hell, what isn't. 

Exactly but these terms like incarnation are only here to explain the ego and how the divine limits itself, even if those limits are imaginary and you are everything. I guess all these questions are irrelevant when the border between self and other collapses.

[Inliytened1]

16 hours ago, Bulgarianspirit said:

Exactly but these terms like incarnation are only here to explain the ego and how the divine limits itself, even if those limits are imaginary and you are everything. I guess all these questions are irrelevant when the border between self and other collapses.

You did touch on something I think was very important.  How do you know you weren't your mother at some point if you no longer remember it?  And if you don't, did it ever happen at all?  And furthermore - does it even matter?  If you already are your mother, is there a need to actually act out being her?  Infinity is a very tricky thing.  But yes - in the end reincarnation does exist.   Its just that you forget.   That's the beauty.   It makes it just a single Incarnation every time.  That's the paradox, because now you must ask yourself, well, if its the first time, then does reincarnation exist?  It's paradoxical.    

Edited September 3, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Tudo]

On 02/09/2023 at 1:53 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Ultimately human biases are the biases of the universe. you are the universe existing. your bias towards survival, the movement of the collective ego mind in a certain direction, your desire at a given moment to open to the mind of the universe, all these are biases of reality.

OK, these things you said make sense. When I was referring to reincarnation, I was talking about this idea of reincarnation just from 80 to 80 years for example. And the idea that ultimately exists multiple minds in the Universe.

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, Tudo said:

was talking about this idea of reincarnation just from 80 to 80 years for example

The idea of an evolution that spans several lives makes sense to me. This experience is a defined pattern. Seeing how life is organized, the idea of continuity fits. 

6 hours ago, Tudo said:

. And the idea that ultimately exists multiple minds in the Universe.

 I believe that in the universe there are many experiences and each of them is the infinite organized into a pattern of existence. I don't share the idea of solipsism. It is obvious that in infinite eternity there have been or will be different experiences than mine today. If they are separated by a temporal discontinuity, they are separated. then they can also be separated by a spatial discontinuity. Space and time are apparent creations, in infinity, space and time collapse since there are no limits. but in the creation of the cosmos the infinite is apparently limited by dividing itself into different appearances, each of which is the total infinite.

In short, the guy you see on the street has his own experience, your experience is not absolute, the absolute is not an experience, is It is total undifferentiated and immutable existence. any mutation is relative. In total infinity nothing can be added or subtracted, it already contains all change, therefore ultimately it is immutable. It is the essence of who we are. everything that comes from this is relative. not for that reason unreal. Saying that the current experience is a dream does not make sense. Experience is relative, it is infinity appearing finite. Everything that appears in experience is really infinite, since everything by definition is infinite. infinity ÷any quantity=infinity. If the infinite is the case, the finite does not exist. So, if everything is infinite, everything is the absolute, it is like an infinite game of mirrors, within your experience are the infinite experiences, and within each of them are the infinite experiences, including yours. all collapse into nothing/everything, the immutable infinity beyond experience

[Tudo]

On 04/09/2023 at 5:09 AM, Breakingthewall said:

The idea of an evolution that spans several lives makes sense to me. This experience is a defined pattern. Seeing how life is organized, the idea of continuity fits. 

 I believe that in the universe there are many experiences and each of them is the infinite organized into a pattern of existence. I don't share the idea of solipsism. It is obvious that in infinite eternity there have been or will be different experiences than mine today. If they are separated by a temporal discontinuity, they are separated. then they can also be separated by a spatial discontinuity. Space and time are apparent creations, in infinity, space and time collapse since there are no limits. but in the creation of the cosmos the infinite is apparently limited by dividing itself into different appearances, each of which is the total infinite.

In short, the guy you see on the street has his own experience, your experience is not absolute, the absolute is not an experience, is It is total undifferentiated and immutable existence. any mutation is relative. In total infinity nothing can be added or subtracted, it already contains all change, therefore ultimately it is immutable. It is the essence of who we are. everything that comes from this is relative. not for that reason unreal. Saying that the current experience is a dream does not make sense. Experience is relative, it is infinity appearing finite. Everything that appears in experience is really infinite, since everything by definition is infinite. infinity ÷any quantity=infinity. If the infinite is the case, the finite does not exist. So, if everything is infinite, everything is the absolute, it is like an infinite game of mirrors, within your experience are the infinite experiences, and within each of them are the infinite experiences, including yours. all collapse into nothing/everything, the immutable infinity beyond experience

Makes no sense to me. You can't prove solipsism wrong with these arguments.

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Tudo said:

Makes no sense to me. You can't prove solipsism wrong with these arguments.

Do you think that in the eternity of existence only your current experience has existed, or do you think there have been others? If there have been others, where are they now? in the past?