Been trying to quit porn/do NoFap for a long time, in these circles, they recommend..

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, oldhandle said:

So similar to art you look at it and don't jerk off?

I didn't say I don't jerk off.

[Leo Gura]

You can go about jerking off in healthy or unhealthy ways. As with most things.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Osaid]

37 minutes ago, Bandman said:

Why do you have to defend jerking off so much?

It's simply the case that most people are not physiologically afflicted by jerking off, but just negative thoughts and such things that are projected afterwards. There is arguably too much stigma and negativity around jerking off which is based in just bro-science and fearmongering, although valid reasons do exist, and some people do experience negative physical effects. This extra nuance which I am mentioning is constantly used by the former non-afflicted group to justify this idea that masturbation is the source of all their problems even though it probably isn't.

37 minutes ago, Bandman said:

almost everyone disagrees with you on this, Leo

No, it's more like, the majority of people are fine with masturbating, and then the minority which has problems spends time online arguing about it and building online communities, which creates an innacurate microcosm portraying it as if it is a widespread issue, and not just a niche thing.
 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Osaid

[Osaid]

3 minutes ago, Bandman said:

This is truly the opening of reality. what a blessing this video is. Genius on many levels.

I also needed the logical and intellectual articulations of Leo to unstick my mind from materialism. He has his own unique talents and flair which is great. You can't make contact with the logical mind with a non-logical mind. But this has to be transcended as well, just like you have to transcend any religious texts, bibles, and any teachers, as they ultimately have nothing to do with YOU, which is all there is, and all there is to learn about. And, of course, all communications are limited, always. No exception, no matter how articulate the person is, it will never work. Any sort of middleman or communication cannot be a replacement for you or reality or truth, ever. Definitely a great thinker though, probably one of the best. Thinking only gets you so far though.

Good luck.

 

[oldhandle]

1 hour ago, Bandman said:

almost everyone disagrees with you on this, Leo. You're too blind too see that what you're doing here is denial akin to WinterKnight level shit annoying and stubborn.

You're like a guy who never had a drinking problem telling everyone it's ok and natural to just have a few beers once in a while. which is actually quite normal but something you wouldn't say in an AA meeting. The ironic thing is that you literally never drink so who are you to say to guys that they shouldn't drink or they should jerk off.

You don't have the mandate on what's natural and what's not. For lots of guys  jerking off leads to porn addiction and it has ruined my life. there's nothing natural about it. It's quite childish for you to say what you've said here instead of realizing that other's situation are often vastly different than yours. You literally have no idea what you're talking about so it's quite disappointing to see you take this stance on this so harshly still after all these years. 

Why do you have to defend jerking off so much? it's almost a meme how often you bring it up and defend it. You're like richard dawkins attacking nofap, very similar actually in the way he critiques religion. He hasn't the slightest clue what he's talking about just like you. no only are you an anofapper like dawkins is an atheist, you are an antinofapper just like dawkins is an antitheist. why can't you just let other people do what they do? stop bullying people into believing what you believe. you should be wiser than this. that so many guys deal with this and are interested in nofap should tell that there is some real reason for people to do it. It's not to withhold my sexual cravings, i'm on the nofap wagon to actually start having real sex. porn and masturbation has kept my sex life from even beginning to exist. Yet you venomously attack and belittle nofap almost every day on this forum. why can't you just jerk off, but no you have to remind all your students about your stance on something you haven't the slightest clue about like a guy who can just drink a few beers and not have a drinking problem.

also, you have done fasting, psychedelics, etc. what are you talking about that humans should just follow their cravings blindly. That's like me saying everyone should just eat whatever candy and snacks they want because they have food cravings that are normal. normally you're very strict on these kinds of things like i said you literally never drink. but noooo, you can't stop CoOMinG. You hAvE To COOM! if you don't COoM yoU're rEpreSINg yoUrSelf! yOu must COOM a couple times per week! if you don't you're not normal!!!!!!

 

It's a disappointment because I agree with Leo on so many other things and have found tremendous help, but porn and masturbation has absolutely destroyed my life in many negative ways and I'm pretty shocked one cannot see this. I think he should look into Noah Church, Dr. Trish Leigh, Gary Wilson's work, but it seems his opinion is pretty set in stone. He does say to not trust any person blindly though, and, while I agree with most of Leo's teaching, I'll never be on board with "porn is natural, harmless" thinking. 

[Leo Gura]

@Bandman I'm well aware that some of you are addicted to jerking off. As some are addicted to food. But the solution to food addiction is not to stop eating but to learn to eat in a healthy way.

This issue should not be compared to alcohol or weed.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[oldhandle]

High speed internet porn is a new phenomenon our brains aren't equipped to deal with though. It hasn't been a problem for many decades, it's new. How can you not notice the obvious correlation with youth ED rates as being associated with high speed internet porn, for example?

https://publichealth.jmir.org/2021/10/e32542/

Edited September 3, 2023 by oldhandle

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Bandman said:

Thanks for all everyone. Thanks Leo.

I understand what your feeling. Not especially because I've been there, but I have a knack for feeling people's pain and emotions even through the computer. You are very genuine in your stance and you are passionate about Spirituality. That said, it is very important to not rely on one particular person on this journey. People are human and have their own biases and survival agendas. People are only here to guide you, not live up to the expectations you've placed on them. Everywhere we go we will see parts of Reality we don't like, and it is up to us to understand that when it comes to a group setting not everyone will share the same opinions we share or have the same ideas about Reality that we have. 

It is best to take what resonates with us from a variety of teachers and leave the rest as Reality is not set in stone and we can shape and form it into our own creations. Every advice I give on this forum I give to myself and I am also learning from how I see how I react to unsuspecting criticisms. I see people making the same mistakes i'm making and it is showing me how I can improve upon the way I interact with the outside world by reflecting upon myself from observing my reactions. I don't run from them, I face them with courage and go deep within to ponder on why I reacted the way I did and to make the adjustments necessary to see what reflection I wish to see from this mirror that I'm looking at as it is all me.

I am very passionate in the way I interact with people and it can also cause me to overlook what is true from what my beliefs are, that are helping to shape my personal experiences. I try to stay grounded in the I AM presence within me and try to not let anything shake that apart because I'm aware of it's presence and how I am giving power to the illusory nature of the appearance of the outside world that only exists because of my attention and awareness of it. I recognize how I'm giving power to something that, without my light of awareness shining on it doesn't have any power over me unless I give it the power to affect me. Nothing can have power over me unless it has been given from above.

[oldhandle]

Good response, I'm trying not to let my discovery of Leo's stance on this topic, in stark contrast to my own, diminish the legitimacy of his Life Purpose Course, which I paid for and am finding useful. I will just agree to disagree with him on this.

Edited September 3, 2023 by oldhandle

[Osaid]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This issue should not be compared to alcohol or weed.

Yeah seriously, you don't have hormones and biological organs attached to your body for the sole purpose of alcohol or weed. This is literally like trying to suppress eating or sleeping.

[Osaid]

24 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

How can you not notice the obvious correlation with youth ED rates as being associated with high speed internet porn, for example?

Look up what a "flatline" is in regards to no-fap. I literally did no-fap and it gave me temporary ED and fucked with my libido for a while. This is a common thing that happens but no one talks about, and it's just chalked up as "oh, your brain is rebooting, bro!!"

TLDR, no-fap ironically literally gave me temporary ED and fucked with my libido.

But anyways, correlation, never proven. Never had problems getting it up ever until I did no fap, lol. It's fixed now though, it was just temporary, thankfully. I've seen stories of people being in that state for years.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Osaid

[Leo Gura]

ED is related much more to poor diet and obesity.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[oldhandle]

Dunno man: https://www.everydayhealth.com/erectile-dysfunction/pornography-habit-is-linked-to-erectile-dysfunction-research-suggests/

"Pornography Habit Is Linked to Erectile Dysfunction, Research Suggests

Survey says more than 50 percent with erectile dysfunction problems during partnered sex don’t have a problem when watching porn."

[Osaid]

4 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

Survey says more than 50 percent with erectile dysfunction problems during partnered sex don’t have a problem when watching porn."

Isn't it like a super common thing to get stuck in your head during sex? This makes sense, and it doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that porn caused it.

[oldhandle]

I just don't think anyone who is intellectually honest could spend some time on this website and genuinely leave with the conclusion that porn is healthy/good for you/not a major societal issue *shrug*

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/research/

[Osaid]

2 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

I just don't think anyone who is intellectually honest could spend some time on this website and genuinely leave with the conclusion that porn is healthy/good for you/not a major societal issue *shrug*

"Links" and "correlation" galore

Anecdotally, none of this stuff is in my direct experience. No ED problems. No libido problems. No issue getting anything up. No relationship problems. And I do it pretty generously. So yeah.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Osaid

[oldhandle]

What? lol. It's the website of the late Gary Wilson
 

16 mil views 

[oldhandle]

5 minutes ago, Osaid said:

"Links" and "correlation" galore

Anecdotally, none of this stuff is in my direct experience. No ED problems. No libido problems. No issue getting anything up. No relationship problems. And I do it pretty generously. So yeah.

anecdotally you'd find over 1,000,000 people that contradict that experience through this link alone

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/tools-for-change-recovery-from-porn-addiction/external-rebooting-blogs-forums-threads/

[Osaid]

18 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

anecdotally you'd find over 1,000,000 people that contradict that experience through this link alone

Haha, if you wanna fight with anecdotes, I reckon there are many more supporting my experience that just didn't bother to type it online because they don't feel the need to hang out in a forum and talk about how good masturbating is.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Osaid

[oldhandle]

Not fighting, simply asserting what I know to be true about the dangers of porn and masturbation.