How do you compliment a man (without hitting on him)?

[eos_nyxia]

8 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

I'm not taking your bait. Have a good day!

I've got one thing to say to you:

[mr_engineer]

4 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

To a degree, being around people is a chore for me, unless they really feel like "my people" (or "my person", in the case of my husband). There has been a high degree of social masking involved throughout my whole life, since early childhood. It IS draining and unnatural for me. It's likely related to this issue, but is also a whole other can of worms in and of itself.

You just have to decide that someone is 'your person', to be honest. And the way you do that is you figure out what role they play in your life and when they do a good job, you compliment them! 

4 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

I actually do sympathize a great deal with men who feel like they have to learn social skills and inference from scratch, because in many ways I have been doing the same thing, though probably I started when I was much younger. Basically: 1) observe  2) take action  3) see how people react  4) observe  5) draw conclusions  6) rinse and repeat steps 1-5  7) assess conclusions again

Basically, a lot of everything that I do socially is done manually or deliberately, and sometimes that involves a lot more rumination than is really technically necessary. (Or you could say "consciously", but I don't put my own behaviour on a pedestal here, it's just my defacto state.) A lot doesn't come automatically or impulsively, especially the older I get.

Is there a step of 'see how you feel about the action you plan on taking, whether it's authentic or not to you' in the middle of this process? 

This is how you do the 'authentic style of pick-up' as a man too. It's the right way to cold-approach and 'learn social-skills' like that cuz it sets you up for authentic relationships in the future. 

4 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

This isn't about my husband or my relationship with him, actually. There is no anxiety there. There is a highway of compliments going both ways, but I actually learned a lot about how to be much freer with compliments from him, based on the way that he treated me. I didn't grow up with compliments or positive affirmation, and it's really hard to model what you don't know.

Ah, okay. Maybe not for you personally, but it was a point in your OP for women in general. 

4 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

However, I do actually have the desire to spontaneously compliment positively. I used to work in education with youth for a time, I was very free with my compliments. It wasn't natural to me though (see above), but I learned. Sometimes it's been like I've wanted to say something complimentary so bad, but it always seems so WRONG, either what I say, or how it comes out. At times in my life I've been quite isolated, and that hasn't helped at all with the hyperconsciousness thing.

The original post is moreso about dealing with and meeting new people, having friendships with the opposite sex, making sense of ambiguous expectations, etc. I like to minimize problems. So much so, that I think about problems that don't technically exist yet (but probably will, lol).

The other thoughts are just things I thought were worth talking about, as a social issue. Aka. why can't cishet men get more compliments if they need/ want them?

If you compliment cishet men on something they're good at/capable in, it would be life-changing for them. And, there is no danger of it coming across as sexual. 

4 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

I don't think it's a bad sentiment to want to meet people where they are, and help the collective needs of society be met somehow, do you?

I'm not of the mind of people automatically understanding and hitting it off with me and then having excellent, effortless relationships all the time without some sort of "effort" or "work" on my part anymore TBH. And also just expecting it to go somewhere, and then actually have it go somewhere according to my expectations/ ideals.

Also, isn't it worth learning to get along with people and understand them, for everyone's greatest good?

Do this only if it's authentic to you/it genuinely is your love-language. 

The truth is that women whose love-language is physical-touch spontaneously give hugs without worrying about whether it'll come across as sexual. Women whose love-language is words of affirmation give compliments without worrying about it coming across as sexual! It's a creative process on your side, it's a process of expressing who you are and your authentic truth. 

If it's not your love-language, I'd highly recommend that you learn more about your motivations behind wanting to do this. Cuz if you don't, you may do more harm than good. 

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, eos_nyxia said:

They've preferred to be close friends with women overall, even if they've had male friends they've known for ages, because they can actually talk about their emotions without it getting super weird. With my husband, he never cared for the element of mindless competitive fist-bumping that groups of younger guys especially often do; it's just not his thing.

I think it's made worse by the fact that he had a working-class upbringing, and he was still left with the concern about being "too sensitive" and "having too many feelings" even though he's always had some sharp edges and never took shit from people.

I get it because I'm a similar way in that I've never cared to compete with my female friends, and on some deep level, it always made me sad when it has happened, or when my intent was interpreted as competitive. However, I feel like a lot of girls either outgrew that habit in puberty (puberty is a confusing hellscape for lots of us!) or else it became much more subtle. As I've grown older, at least in the "real world", it's been a lot easier to gravitate towards people of like mind anyway.

IMO the purpose of friends is to find (or create!) a deep level of common interests and shared perspective, and I think it should also be to genuinely uplift each other and have enjoyable interactions. I feel like it's not a real friendship otherwise. I'm super duper basic/straightforward in this way, lol. 

Completely relate to this sentiment.

This entire non-emotional dynamic led to some very weird friendships. You say a real friendship should be intimate, but it was never that way at all for me. I just viewed it in spectrums, some were deeper, and some weren't deep at all. I just kind of accepted that I'll always be at odds with them emotionally, and I just focused on what they actually brought, which would just be similar interests or hobbies like video games or whatever. I've definitely had this exact thought before, which is that female friends tend to have more "depth" right from the beginning because of the higher EQ. It's just a vital part of proper human interaction I guess.

 

[eos_nyxia]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

Is there a step of 'see how you feel about the action you plan on taking, whether it's authentic or not to you' in the middle of this process? 

Yea, generally happens all along, in increments, though often felt like I've needed space to reflect on it.

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If you compliment cishet men on something they're good at/capable in, it would be life-changing for them. And, there is no danger of it coming across as sexual. 

This I can do, and I can do very well I think! I really love getting these types of compliments, and I love giving them too.

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Do this only if it's authentic to you/it genuinely is your love-language. 

The truth is that women whose love-language is physical-touch spontaneously give hugs without worrying about whether it'll come across as sexual. Women whose love-language is words of affirmation give compliments without worrying about it coming across as sexual! It's a creative process on your side, it's a process of expressing who you are and your authentic truth.

I guess in my case, I've felt for most of my life like there's been a very sensitive, expressive person who has been trapped inside the more outward shell of someone who comes across a lot more cerebral and cold, and even reserved to the point of being retentive. At least at first, anyway. I've been told a good handful of times by people who became my friends later that I come off as standoffish IRL (even intimidating, at times), and that they were surprised that I was so nice and warm once they got to know me better.

I think it's mostly how I was raised, somewhat "traditional" and quite strict (for where I live, anyway). That and I'm capable of living and feeling at home enough inside the domain "logic" and "the intellect" like my dad, who I very much get in that way (and he feels like he just "gets" me in this way too). Very strong displays of emotion were frowned upon in my family period. I didn't get much of a pass for being female, TBH.  And I don't just mean anger/ frustration/ tantrums.  If I was too joyful, excited, or even a bit "hyper", I could just tell that my parents didn't like it. And one way I showed my love for them was by becoming more of what they want... and less like myself, less expressive with my presence, my body, and matching their energy level. I talked far less and spent most of my time listening around them, became meeker and stiller as to not take up too much space. I asked them the questions they wanted to hear, gave them the affirmation that I intuitively felt like they wanted and needed.  You could just call this "people pleasing" (or just wanting to be a "good daughter") and you wouldn't be wrong, but I was mostly just like this with them, not with my friends growing up.   

Add early childhood touch-based trauma (both the lack of affection plus negative touch) to it and trying to find "authentic expression" has been difficult, to say the least. Literally, my husband has ended up teaching me over the years, because my upbringing was a huge void emotionally. We have filled each others' cups in so many ways, but still. There have been struggles and there have been limitations.

I've been perpetually moving toward something that is not some emotionally and physically stilted version of myself (early childhood), or the rebellious and rather unhinged version of myself (early teenaged years). It often feels like I've been shifting between "heart" (more unhinged, expressive, impulsive) and "mind" (principle-based, mentally resolved, rather tightly laced up) in my outward expression for years, often in long phases.

Neither of these feel "natural", exactly, though I guess being unhinged has felt more natural. Did it feel like the "true me" though? No. I've never felt like my "authentic self" is angry except for in the short term. My childhood self was not angry.

[eos_nyxia]

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If it's not your love-language, I'd highly recommend that you learn more about your motivations behind wanting to do this. Cuz if you don't, you may do more harm than good. 

TBH, I have different love languages from my husband. He is more quality time/ physical touch, and I'm more acts of service/ receiving gifts, at least traditionally. Over a rather long span of time since we've known each other (let's just say just under 19 years or so), we've picked up a lot of each others' ways of natural communication, a lot through osmosis and sometimes through sheer effort, to the point that it's become natural to express ourselves in ways which were not native to each other originally. We adapted.

So it seems natural to me to continue to learn how to adapt to others' ways of communicating, I suppose (within reason). Deep down I am optimistic about change and would strongly prefer to believe that we can all communicate better, become better versions of ourselves, if we are open to each other and open to growth. Despite whatever my life has been like.

A lot of people become very insular with age, especially in my position. They find a partner and some close friends, their family, and then they sink entirely into that life. They check out. They cease to learn anything about how other people are, and how to interact with them, because they're not interested in forming new relationships or going outside their comfort zone, or maybe they just let it all happen organically and they don't think about this stuff. It's really easy to. And it's really easy to let a small, insular social circle (if not one just based on your partner) become your whole worldview, as it's the only viewpoints you actually have to contend with. It is not "wrong" per say, but for me, this somehow feels incomplete.

My issue is actually that I'm not sure about how to be around other people anymore and that I feel really out of touch at times because I've spent quite a long time being relatively isolated; so I feel very undersocialized in many ways compared to other people in my culture/ this time period, but I suppose I could say equally that people don't know much about being in very long term relationships or being and stayed married (and not getting utterly sick of, detached, and spent with each other). Like... this is not my grandparents' or great-grandparents' era. Most people in first-world countries don't marry someone they knew and dated as a teenager and ultimately end up together anymore. Growing with someone in this way is perhaps a lost skill. I feel like if I had been more social and followed more of a "normal" life path, then I wouldn't be asking these questions on a personal level, lol.

Also, I genuinely, legitimately do feel for people who feel like they're starved for positive attention and affection, whether it's touch (sexual and romantic or not) or compliments. Why would it be a stretch since I know what that feels like? It makes me sad because I get to hear so much affirmation every day, and I get the chance to give it too. To think that I can give something freely when it is no loss to myself (like a compliment), what's wrong with that? Basic empathy, I thought.....

Personally, I think of it a lot like practicing gratitude as a more formal, concentrated effort, like listing every day all of the things you are grateful for. Even if it hasn't always come naturally, as long as it's not so forced that it's inauthentic, doesn't this have a lot of positive potential? Eventually, you practice something enough, and it does become a naturalized and and ingrained habit.

Edited August 30, 2023 by eos_nyxia

[eos_nyxia]

3 hours ago, Judy2 said:

@eos_nyxia

i've complimented male friends before, mostly after they had a haircut or when they told me about efforts they made in their social life that i knew were outside of their comfort zone. however, i probably wouldn't start giving compliments to random men i don't even know.

I probably wouldn't either!

Once in a rare while, I do compliment women I don't know though, and am also complimented by women that I don't know.  For example: going to get coffee, a stranger compliments you. That can be nice even if you're in ultra-introvert mode, like a hermit crab in a shell around people you don't know really well.

I've sometimes read about the experiences of men online who received compliments from strangers (or acquaintances), and how it made their day. I don't recall anything about it being women that they were sexually attracted to, or whether these women were single and available or not. It seemed more like a nice compliment from a stranger. What I do remember being mentioned over and over is that many men so rarely receive compliments, that it really sticks out in their memory that it happened, and perhaps when they're feeling low or not worthwhile, it's something that they revisit over and over again. And I've thought to myself... maybe I can do that too? It takes so little effort to actually give a compliment, it's like everything else around it is the issue...

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maybe you can start by complimenting family friends or colleagues at work with whom the relationship is somewhat clearly defined? men who know that you're married and who may also be in a relationship themselves? this way they won't be as likely to mistake friendliness for flirting.

This sounds kind of ridiculous to say this out loud, but I actually, actively don't want my male friends to develop a debilitating sense of attraction to me. It makes me feel bad knowing that maybe I could have prevented it somehow, but then, it also feels like it's hard to know for sure.

At least in the past, from my perspective.... friendships felt "normal" until I became too open and too warm emotionally, too vulnerable maybe (as in, overshare), as it's natural enough to become that way over time with... anyone? It's hard to say if they were always attracted to me and kept it under tabs, or if it developed and intensified with time, but the pretense of friendship no longer made sense anymore at that time.

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

Completely relate to this sentiment.

This entire non-emotional dynamic led to some very weird friendships. You say a real friendship should be intimate, but it was never that way at all for me. I just viewed it in spectrums, some were deeper, and some weren't deep at all. I just kind of accepted that I'll always be at odds with them emotionally, and I just focused on what they actually brought, which would just be similar interests or hobbies like video games or whatever. I've definitely had this exact thought before, which is that female friends tend to have more "depth" right from the beginning because of the higher EQ. It's just a vital part of proper human interaction I guess.

I think that's a very healthy attitude, actually. Taking people for what they are without having lots of hidden expectations, and focusing on the best of what people can bring and share authentically to an interaction, or relationship.

Edited August 30, 2023 by eos_nyxia

[Whitney Edwards]

@eos_nyxia in response to your last post- (There's a slight problem when you automatically assume that friendship between men and women should exist without baggage). Talk about projecting on my life lol. Well frankly I didn't expect anything better. It seems you become livid if something doesn't go according to your way/opinion. When you open a thread and include personal details, people are going to be having all sorts of opinions. I offered a male perspective which you aren't completely open to and that is that friendship between men and women is not an easy deal especially for the man. If you want changes in your life, first and foremost comes through self reflection. If your rhetoric in your life is to lash out at someone trying to offer a narrative different from yours, then keep expecting the results you have always been getting. Nothing more to say to you. Just telling you the truth about male female friendship. You don't need to take it personally though. It seems you're taking random opinions way too personally. Maybe this is the energy most of your male companions are picking from you, so try to work on that, especially when you say they walk away from you for no apparent reason. This is the last I'll respond to you, you take it good or bad, it's up to you. I was just giving constructive feedback sprinkled with some criticism. Take it well. Lastly there's more to everyone's life if you care to look deep enough. 

[eos_nyxia]

38 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

(There's a slight problem when you automatically assume that friendship between men and women should exist without baggage). Talk about projecting on my life lol. Well frankly I didn't expect anything better. It seems you become livid if something doesn't go according to your way/opinion. When you open a thread and include personal details, people are going to be having all sorts of opinions. I offered a male perspective which you aren't completely open to and that is that friendship between men and women is not an easy deal especially for the man.

I feel like I am stating the glaringly obvious here: not all people's opinions about your life and lived-in experience are equally valid, especially when there was pretty limited information given about my relationship from the start.

You overreached, you were rude to people, and it was not appreciated. What do you expect though?

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If you want changes in your life, first and foremost comes through self reflection.

Thanks, Yoda.   <(°.°)>

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If your rhetoric in your life is to lash out at someone trying to offer a narrative different from yours, then keep expecting the results you have always been getting.

You could have communicated your point in a civil way, kept it there, and moved on without making it overly personal. You did not.

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Nothing more to say to you. Just telling you the truth about male female friendship. You don't need to take it personally though. It seems you're taking random opinions way too personally.

Does all of malekind actually consent for you to speak for them?  (By the way, I already acknowledged your actual perspective though, you know...)

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Maybe this is the energy most of your male companions are picking from you, so try to work on that, especially when you say they walk away from you for no apparent reason.

You are way too comfortable projecting with rather limited information and rather protective of your interpretations. I find it a bit unhinged TBH.

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This is the last I'll respond to you, you take it good or bad, it's up to you. I was just giving constructive feedback sprinkled with some criticism. Take it well. 

Ah yes, the old "I was only doing it for your own good!" "All I ever do for people when I belittle them is for their own good!"

If anything, maybe I should be giving people long-term relationship advice just based on my track record, but it's not really my thing though. I don't quite feel comfortable speaking for all people everywhere.

....and I usually feel like it's a bit cheap to play the age/ experience card, because it's a very easy way to just write people off, and being older doesn't necessarily make your perspective more truthful... but seriously, how old or experienced are you even? What do you know about marriage/ extremely long LTRs? People in general might easily enough be able to recognize one which is not working, but what do you know about how to be in one harmoniously, and why are you so insistent about giving advice on it?

Edited August 30, 2023 by eos_nyxia

[Whitney Edwards]

6 minutes ago, eos_nyxia said:

I feel like I am stating the glaringly obvious here: not all people's opinions about your life and lived-in experience are equally valid, especially when there was pretty limited information given about my relationship from the start.

You overreached, you were rude to people, and it was not appreciated. What do you expect though?

Thanks, Yoda.   <(°.°)>

You could have communicated your point in a civil way, kept it there, and moved on without making it overly personal. You did not.

Does all of malekind actually consent for you to speak for them?  (By the way, I already acknowledged your actual perspective though, you know...)

You are way too comfortable projecting with rather limited information and rather protective of your interpretations. I find it a bit unhinged TBH.

Ah yes, the old "I was only doing it for your own good!" "All I ever do for people when I belittle them is for their own good!"

If anything, maybe I should be giving people long-term relationship advice just based on my track record, but it's not really my thing though. I don't quite feel comfortable speaking for all people everywhere.

....and I usually feel like it's a bit cheap to play the age/ experience card, because it's a very easy way to just write people off, and being older doesn't necessarily make your perspective more truthful... but seriously, how old or experienced are you even? What do you know about marriage/ extremely long LTRs? People in general might easily enough be able to recognize one which is not working, but what do know about how to be in one harmoniously, and why are you so insistent about giving advice on it?

Does my experience seriously count though? I'm in my 20s, had a recent breakup, didn't have many relationships, no marriage obviously. No "extremely" long LTRs either lol, none. I didn't play the experience card at all, neither can I play it in my position. So I'm not supposed to give advice? Are you being serious with that statement? Fine I'll take it and not give you any further advice. Seems you know more than I do. Can you please explain why experience is relevant? I didn't get that lol. Isn't having too little experience actually a good track record lol? Am I missing something? Please enlightennn me if you can. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Buck Edwards

[eos_nyxia]

14 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Does my experience seriously count though? I'm in my 20s, had a recent breakup, didn't have many relationships, no marriage obviously. No "extremely" long LTRs either lol, none. I didn't play the experience card at all, neither can I play it in my position.

This thread might be open to anyone to post in it, but you're also in my thread posting rather non-productively (IMO). I just don't get it. You already posted your opinion, and after a certain point, it seemed like you just came in here to argue.

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So I'm not supposed to give advice? Are you being serious with that statement? Fine I'll take it and not give you any further advice. Seems you know more than I do. Can you please explain why experience is relevant? I didn't get that lol.

Has no one ever given you the advice before, that you should perhaps not give advice on things which you are not qualified to give advice about? (Or that if you give advice that you are not qualified to give, people ought to not take it seriously?)

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Isn't having too little experience actually a good track record lol? Am I missing something? Please enlightennn me if you can. 

Alright, I'll answer in good faith.

...people generally want to get advice about how to ride a bike from a person who has ridden a bike. Not someone who has seen someone else ride a bike, and not someone who has seen someone ride a bike in their heads, or who has read a book about riding a bike.  Assuming that they actually asked for advice on that specific thing.

Generally, the respectful thing is not to give advice to someone who doesn't want it, for something they did not ask for. If there was a misunderstanding, you just back off unless you're really hankerin' for a fight for whatever reason. You can only really have a civil, constructive debate with someone who wants it anyway. Basic civility...

This is really not the same thing as saying that all your perspectives and interpretations of your life have no weight and have no human value or validity. Notice I said YOUR LIFE. But people generally look for advice from people of like-enough experience, or where it is inclusive or constructive enough (ideally).

Edited August 30, 2023 by eos_nyxia

[Whitney Edwards]

16 minutes ago, eos_nyxia said:

people generally want to get advice about how to ride a bike from a person who has ridden a bike. Not someone who has seen someone else ride a bike, and not someone who has seen someone ride a bike in their heads, or who has read a book about riding a bike.  Assuming that they actually asked for advice on that specific thing.

True true. Whatever scant little experience I've ever had, I've generally (in my observation that is), found that women who are mostly on social media like Instagram, Tik Tok use male friends only (or mostly) for attention and likes. All my friends too. And then they dump them. It makes it difficult for men to make sense of it or give any human value to this recurrent experience, it's like "don't take women seriously anymore." it's what my friends regularly tell me. You have to know how men feel about it. Just my two cents. But you could be looking for genuine friendships, ya know. 

[martins name]

Do it in a detached way. Don't say "I like", say "it's good". It's how I compliment other men, otherwise, it sounds gay.

[gettoefl]

you can compliment and be confident and be outspoken to the extent you and they have rock solid boundaries and as such need nothing in return

in all other cases truth is compliments are politics; an attempt to curry favor with the other, to put yourself on their side and to position yourself for the rewards of such alignment

in short know yourself know the other know what you want know what they want

else refrain

or your noble but naïve intention creates nothing but misery for them and for you