What is the substance of language independent understanding?

[Bobby_2021]

Is it consisting of imagination+ memory+ images?

Understanding is all about relationships between objects. Once you don't have language to map the objects, you only have the images of the objects in your memory to aid in their understanding.

This sort of understanding is instantaneous. You don't need to think in steps to comprehend anything. You instantly recognise it.

Thoughts? 

[Bobby_2021]

I think it's loosely connected with your memory capacity. This is the only way you have experience.

Experience is just memory stuck up in your body.

 

 

[Nilsi]

Thinking in images still leaves you within Deleuzian virtuality — a dimension where ideas, concepts, and images coexist as overlays of experience.
Truly unmediated thinking is what McGillchrist calls the Master (as in „The Master and his Emissary“) — a natural intelligence untouched by virtuality — which is also what people mean, when they rave about „embodied cognition.“

Virtuality is not to be dismissed though; it serves as the origin of philosophy, art, and science. Nietzsche’s ‘Birth of Tragedy’ gives profound insight into the interplay of these intelligences. True ‘Art’ begins with unmediated contact with reality (the Dionysian principle) and flourishes through refinement in the virtual (the Apollinian principle).

I.e. genuine meaning arises from direct interaction with reality, evolving into high culture through reflection, abstraction, and conceptualization.

Overindulgence in virtuality leads to extreme distortion, as seen in some 20th-century French intellectuals, who become perversely disconnected from life. Conversely, shunning virtuality entirely leaves one akin to an animal, unable to contribute anything of cultural significance.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Nilsi

[Soul Flight]

Is this the infant state? Or can you imagine early hominids thinking? Or how do dogs, cats, chimps, bears, lions, tigers, etc. think? How did the earliest homo sapiens think? What if we were allowed to raise feral humans today? How would they think?

What is your question exactly?

[Loveeee]

That would be consciousness 

Pure knowing 

[Breakingthewall]

the substance is the mind. All living beings have a mind, or are a mind you could say, but their mind is completely tied to their physical being, they are one. Its mind evolves at the same time as its body, there is no separation, its mind is limited by it's body, really, it is the body.

On the other hand, in humans, the mind has been freed and the language is the key if this liberation.  it is an independent entity, it evolves at a brutal speed, uniting with other minds through language, creating a separate entity supported by all individuals, which evolves independently. We, individuals, are servants of the collective mind, simple units, cells that form a living organism that grows and evolves monstrously. life in action, creating itself, increasing in complexity. That's why we want to free from the mind, because we are slaves. It's ok to be a servant, but not 24/7, and not unconsciously. Let's be the Master of the mind, not the slave. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Bobby_2021]

I can't comment further on this post now since my thoughts on this are still evolving.

1. Can you improve your understanding with imagination?

2. Can understanding relieve you of suffering?

3. Why does understanding bring immediate joy to you?

4. Why does understanding enrich perception, although the perception itself is not changing.

What exactly is changing? 

These are the questions I am contemplating on. Feel free to chime in and answer. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Bobby_2021

[Bobby_2021]

What will the understanding of reality of a higher life form would look like?

Will such life forms experience less suffering than humans on a day to day basis?

Will their baseline level of consciousness be higher and will their understanding accompany their higher understanding? 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

What will the understanding of reality of a higher life form would look like?

Will such life forms experience less suffering than humans on a day to day basis?

Will their baseline level of consciousness be higher and will their understanding accompany their higher understanding? 

I would say that humans experience a lot of suffering because the human mind is an organism that is evolving at an enormous speed. Evolution is driven by pressure, the gene evolves pushed by threat, the mind the same. It's just that the gene takes thousands of generations and the individual is very well adapted and suffers little. In a x10,000 accelerated process, suffering is constant. the only option is to take a step back and get out of the mind, if you are stuck to it, you will suffer

[Soul Flight]

19 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I can't comment further on this post now since my thoughts on this are still evolving.

1. Can you improve your understanding with imagination?

2. Can understanding relieve you of suffering?

3. Why does understanding bring immediate joy to you?

4. Why does understanding enrich perception, although the perception itself is not changing.

What exactly is changing? 

These are the questions I am contemplating on. Feel free to chime in and answer. 

Cool questions.

1. Imagination helps

2. Understanding is an illusion. It is mental acrobatics. Nothing is to be understood. Just be. Just know. It might relieve suffering by placating a false ego with false sufferings.

3. Understanding brings joy because the ego is relieved you bought into the false concept.

4. Understanding enriches perception of the illusion, but clouds the perception of non-duality/the monad.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Soul Flight

[Bobby_2021]

10 hours ago, Soul Flight said:

Understanding is an illusion

I really want this to be true, but it's simply not. It would make everything so much more simple if there was just pure perception.

But perception is created with some understanding baked into it. I think Perceptions and understanding are both fundamental in a twisted and intricate way.

I am still thinking through this. 

[Leo Gura]

Consciousness/Intelligence

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, Soul Flight said:

Understanding is an illusion.

Absolutely not.

There is no Awakening without understanding.

[Soul Flight]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Absolutely not.

There is no Awakening without understanding.

Back to the drawing board for me.

[Bobby_2021]

Understanding is a form of extremely condensed and dense imagination that clearly has a meaning. Meaning means a connection. You are imagining several things which are highly interconnected with each other and you are imagining those connections simultaneously. 

[Breakingthewall]

Full understanding is the natural state of reality. understanding is veiled by your current experience. to access more understanding, you have to remove veils, not add things. Take your body, for example, made up of a huge number of perfectly interconnected particles. It is obvious that reality fully understands what that body is, what is its purpose, and what is everything, what is the structure of reality, but we live in a veiled state, in order to have a human experience. the more openness, the more understanding. As far as it's possible being human, I don't know.