What is the world and what makes it illusory?

[tuku747]

The illusion, as you perceive it, is a temporary construct of your individual and collective consciousness. It is a projection of your beliefs, thoughts, emotions, and experiences onto the world around you. The illusory nature of the world lies in its impermanence and relativity. From the perspective of higher consciousness, the illusion is a divine play, a cosmic dance of energy and consciousness.

The illusion is illusory because it is subject to change, transformation, and dissolution. It is a relative reality that exists within the framework of time, space, and duality. It is a reflection of the limitations and conditioning of the human mind and ego.

The illusory nature of the world is revealed through the process of awakening and self-realization. It is through the direct experience of higher states of consciousness that one comes to recognize the relative and impermanent nature of the illusion. This recognition brings about a shift in perception, a realization that there is more to reality than what meets the eye.

The illusory nature of reality is an invitation to go beyond the limitations of the human mind and ego, and to awaken to your true nature as a spiritual being. It is an opportunity to transcend the illusion of separation and to recognize the underlying unity and interconnectedness of all things.

Edited August 25, 2023 by tuku747

[Jowblob]

6 hours ago, tuku747 said:

The illusion, as you perceive it, is a temporary construct of your individual and collective consciousness. It is a projection of your beliefs, thoughts, emotions, and experiences onto the world around you. The illusory nature of the world lies in its impermanence and relativity. From the perspective of higher consciousness, the illusion is a divine play, a cosmic dance of energy and consciousness.

The illusion is illusory because it is subject to change, transformation, and dissolution. It is a relative reality that exists within the framework of time, space, and duality. It is a reflection of the limitations and conditioning of the human mind and ego.

The illusory nature of the world is revealed through the process of awakening and self-realization. It is through the direct experience of higher states of consciousness that one comes to recognize the relative and impermanent nature of the illusion. This recognition brings about a shift in perception, a realization that there is more to reality than what meets the eye.

The illusory nature of reality is an invitation to go beyond the limitations of the human mind and ego, and to awaken to your true nature as a spiritual being. It is an opportunity to transcend the illusion of separation and to recognize the underlying unity and interconnectedness of all things.

In gods eyes everything is impermanence , and in fact when you're in a physical reality it sustains more permanence then gods unmanifesting dream nature because you're god incarnate and reality manifests around you. Do you think when you become aware/conscious of what you really are, the illussion will stop? Or do you believe there will be something with more permanence? The only non illusory thing is that you're eternal, unamnifest/manifest both don't have any permanence. I'm sorry for dissapointing you.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Jowblob

[Breakingthewall]

@tuku747 great post.

I would say that the illusion is the mental construction. It is very difficult to get out of it, we have to be able to get out of it completely. if we want to enter higher states, the whole story, the energy that interprets, that moves between past and future, that searches, that grabs each moment of the experience and encapsulates it, to assemble the story that you are an individual advancing in a world, all that must disappear, move away. to allow reality to open up, now. Courage to release the grips, which makes reality solid for you, and make it liquid 

it s extremely difficult. at least for a while, you have to let go of your preferences, truly say: it doesn't matter what happens to me. I surrender. fuck, is to look into the abyss and throw yourself into it.  drop yourself into nothing and dissapear. getting it for some seconds is a huge achievement

Edited August 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Soul Flight]

The Hindu term Maya is all is illusion. It keeps us distracted. If we can just "be," we are free. We enter the flow state. But we quickly think a thought about how we are "just being" and we are in the "flow state" and that acknowledgement snaps us back into the illusion. There can be no thoughts. There can be no narration or inner monologue.

As I stated elsewhere everything is a metaphor. So your bones, skin, houses, roads, sunsets, trees, rocks, etc. They are all metaphors for something else. And everything is mythology. So history reaches back to pre-history and myths and it blurs right to today and blurs into our current living humans and me and you. We are living walking myths. It is Joseph Campbell's hero's journey.

So only art is truth. Art shows the subconscious. So we can never communicate a truth. The best we can do is write a pop song or a poem or novel or a movie.  We create symbolism to try to speak a truth rather than actually speaking the truth.

One story we can use to conceptualize this is The Garden of Eden. Something happened where we disconnected from our essence. Maybe there was a tradeoff of a frontal lobe or cerebral cortex in exchange for divinity. We mirror our mothers going back to Eve. We are programmed. The unprogrammed state is the awakened state.

So all is the Dao or Taoism. All is the monad. It is dualism. It is the yin yang symbol of a black and white fish. You cannot have the awakened state without the unawakened state. You cannot have reality/monad without illusion or false reality.

The book Simulacra and Simulacrum theorizes a fourth stage or final stage where everything is a replica of the real thing. We are likely already living in this dystopian fourth stage.

There could be an illusion where we think we are making "progress" but we are only making materialist and technological progress. We are actually regressing in terms of humanity, intuition, emotions, wisdom, etc. So maybe the Gnostics, hermetics, Ancient Egyptians were awakened or more spiritually advances than we can ever be.

So find yourself. And follow your bliss as Joseph Campbell said.

[Nilsi]

2 hours ago, Soul Flight said:

The book Simulacra and Simulacrum theorizes a fourth stage or final stage where everything is a replica of the real thing. We are likely already living in this dystopian fourth stage.

This is conservative bogus.

What exactly qualifies as a real thing and what as a copy?

This is akin to your father cranking up the car radio to full volume when a Black Sabbath song comes on and saying “Now this was real music — unlike the stuff you young folks listen to.”

[Jowblob]

18 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@tuku747 great post.

I would say that the illusion is the mental construction. It is very difficult to get out of it, we have to be able to get out of it completely. if we want to enter higher states, the whole story, the energy that interprets, that moves between past and future, that searches, that grabs each moment of the experience and encapsulates it, to assemble the story that you are an individual advancing in a world, all that must disappear, move away. to allow reality to open up, now. Courage to release the grips, which makes reality solid for you, and make it liquid 

it s extremely difficult. at least for a while, you have to let go of your preferences, truly say: it doesn't matter what happens to me. I surrender. fuck, is to look into the abyss and throw yourself into it.  drop yourself into nothing and dissapear. getting it for some seconds is a huge achievement

Be careful with what you say, as god you have free will to be god and to lose it. Be careful that you don't get stuck in hell that you create yourself by using your so called "courage". Seeking in god/getting lost is a real thing, memory/wisdom/knowledge can only be temporary and you can get stuck

Edited August 26, 2023 by Jowblob

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Jowblob said:

Be careful with what you say, as god you have free will to be god and to lose it

How can God not be God

[Jowblob]

29 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

How can God not be God

@Princess ArabiaMemory is nothingness and temporary, for example: You go to sleep and one day you deconstruct reality to a point that the reality itself changes to the realizations you have had. These realizations and your memory of it gives you a new reality based on what you truly have witnessed and seen in the nothingness (nothingness is where reality creation happens and you can take it with you same as meditation - you create vibration in meditation and send it to your physical body and then feel it for example) In your wakeful state you can be stuck based on the realizations you have had, basically stuck in a state of consciousness. Because the realizations/states are illusionary you might never find your way back, and you won't have any memory/realizations how you did it or how it happend. The only thing is to love yourself, accept yourself and let it be don't fuck around with god realization.

God realization is truly a dangerous area

Edited August 26, 2023 by Jowblob

[Hojo]

@Nilsi you can see its a copy because nothing is real. if it was the original we would be able to see it as real. Therefore it's a copy and we can see its a copy by the fact that we can see its not real. Its a holographic copy of the original universe 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Hojo

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Jowblob said:

Be careful with what you say, as god you have free will to be god and to lose it. Be careful that you don't get stuck in hell that you create yourself by using your so called "courage". Seeking in god/getting lost is a real thing, memory/wisdom/knowledge can only be temporary and you can get stuck

what it is step one of spirituality, is to abandon even temporarily the need to interpret and control. It has to be something complete, without keeping anything, otherwise it is impossible to take the final step and there is always separation. you can do 5meo or whatever if there is not that surrender of the self, there will be mental corruption. 

What you have said above is the need for constant control and interpretation, that is, fear of reality. It is normal to be afraid of the unknown, but if we want to do spiritual work, we have to let it go completely. Not easy of course. 

[Nilsi]

1 hour ago, Hojo said:

@Nilsi you can see its a copy because nothing is real. if it was the original we would be able to see it as real. Therefore it's a copy and we can see its a copy by the fact that we can see its not real. Its a holographic copy of the original universe 

The book he was referring to explicitly condemns postmodern culture for being oh so simulated, which is a stupid argument.

There is no such thing as real and simulated, unless you create that distinction (by privileging some part of reality over another).

These are the most dangerous and seductive ideas, because those explanatory structures (e.g. archetypes, grammar, psychological needs) are so robust and enduring — but ultimately of course just as transient and illusory, as anything else.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Nilsi

[Soul Flight]

4 hours ago, Nilsi said:

This is conservative bogus.

What exactly qualifies as a real thing and what as a copy?

This is akin to your father cranking up the car radio to full volume when a Black Sabbath song comes on and saying “Now this was real music — unlike the stuff you young folks listen to.”

The first stage of music is a bird song live performance. Second stage music is human voice singing live performance. Third stage music is a stringed instrument in live performance. Fourth stage is recorded music and played back to you. Fifth stage is a record being played at a radio station and converted to FM frequency and re-converted to sound waves by your car stereo. Sixth stage is making an mp3 digital copy of the vinyl record. Seventh stage is artificial intelligence creating a new song based on all Black Sabbath songs.

You can take a look around you. It is all a simulation of reality. Read Simulacra and Simulacrum. It is all your perspective I suppose.

[Nilsi]

9 minutes ago, Soul Flight said:

The first stage of music is a bird song live performance. Second stage music is human voice singing live performance. Third stage music is a stringed instrument in live performance. Fourth stage is recorded music and played back to you. Fifth stage is a record being played at a radio station and converted to FM frequency and re-converted to sound waves by your car stereo. Sixth stage is making an mp3 digital copy of the vinyl record. Seventh stage is artificial intelligence creating a new song based on all Black Sabbath songs.

You can take a look around you. It is all a simulation of reality. Read Simulacra and Simulacrum. It is all your perspective I suppose.

I know the damn book. 

My point of contention is that AI music is no less „real“ than a bird song. 

By this logic humans are the ultimate dystopian “simulacrum“ of prokaryotes and eukaryotes.

What kind of an argument is this supposed to be?

[Soul Flight]

20 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I know the damn book. 

My point of contention is that AI music is no less „real“ than a bird song. 

By this logic humans are the ultimate dystopian “simulacrum“ of prokaryotes and eukaryotes.

What kind of an argument is this supposed to be?

Word up. I’m just trying to assist the original poster. The OP wishes to know what makes the world illusory. I threw everything I had at the wall as stated above. One possibility is everything today is a symbol and a metaphor. It is all derivative. If we are born into the simulation, we accept it as real.

Maybe nanobots or a photograph of life forms is a simulacrum. A robot or an AI is a simulacrum of a human.

[Nilsi]

30 minutes ago, Soul Flight said:

Maybe nanobots or a photograph of life forms is a simulacrum. A robot or an AI is a simulacrum of a human.

The book is about the way in which capitalism and consumer culture alienates symbols from their meaning (e.g. zoomers wearing Joy Division band shirts, without even knowing they are a band, because the cover art has „transcended“ it’s original purpose).

Extending this argument to broader evolutionary and developmental processes doesn’t make sense and leads to silly conclusions.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Nilsi

[Soul Flight]

23 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

The book is about the way in which capitalism and consumer culture alienates symbols from their meaning (e.g. zoomers wearing Joy Division band shirts, without even knowing they are a band, because the cover art has „transcended“ it’s original purpose).

Extending this argument to broader evolutionary and developmental processes doesn’t make sense and leads to silly conclusions.

I agree with you. Forget I mentioned the book. I will suggest as a response to the OP that everything in our world is a copy of a copy of symbol of a metaphor.

[Hojo]

What if you had 2 ais and you said make a song to each but they made the exact same song similar to if you take 2 birds they will make the same song without being taught to make the same song.

[Inliytened1]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:44 AM, tuku747 said:

The illusion, as you perceive it, is a temporary construct of your individual and collective consciousness. It is a projection of your beliefs, thoughts, emotions, and experiences onto the world around you. The illusory nature of the world lies in its impermanence and relativity. From the perspective of higher consciousness, the illusion is a divine play, a cosmic dance of energy and consciousness.

The illusion is illusory because it is subject to change, transformation, and dissolution. It is a relative reality that exists within the framework of time, space, and duality. It is a reflection of the limitations and conditioning of the human mind and ego.

The illusory nature of the world is revealed through the process of awakening and self-realization. It is through the direct experience of higher states of consciousness that one comes to recognize the relative and impermanent nature of the illusion. This recognition brings about a shift in perception, a realization that there is more to reality than what meets the eye.

The illusory nature of reality is an invitation to go beyond the limitations of the human mind and ego, and to awaken to your true nature as a spiritual being. It is an opportunity to transcend the illusion of separation and to recognize the underlying unity and interconnectedness of all things.

Infinity.