Does the need for realising the truth have to be natural, or you have to force it?

[KGrimes]

This is something I tried to grasp after several ego-backlashes.

There are period in my life where I can meditate, do some trips, contemplate and have some new realizations, be very in tune with God, dedicate every day thinking about what true reality is and what im experiencing.

And then something happen in real life that makes me so tired and maybe even pointless to pursue it, I just have no natural pull, it seems that it's something that you "have" to do rather than "want" to do.

And then I become less and less aware, which leads to some suffering, not being happy with material things - money, sex, career, drugs, etc. and then I go back to meditating, contemplating, reading books of god-realized authors. 

And then I fall again.

Yet over the years my sense of reality, even at the points where im not living very consciously, I feel a slight change in perspective. Like sometimes I'd be very busy and focused on survival and it hits me how pointless it is, or it's just all a dream, and that regardless what I do or pursue, it really doesn't matter unless I can become awakened and break the cycle.

Sometimes Im fine with the idea that it may take several lifetimes. And sometimes Im not.

Curious about your struggles with this.

[itsadistraction]

Use Wu wei, and devote yourself 100%

Edited August 25, 2023 by itsadistraction

[KGrimes]

@itsadistraction It's simply do-nothing approach, right? As in i meditate because I want to, not because I need to. I contemplate because i feel like it, not because I have to, and I shouldn't be chasing anything?

[Leo Gura]

@KGrimes What you describe is very typical. It's probably the norm.

Very few people have single-minded spiritual focus. Which is why spiritual masters are so rare.

You can compare spiritual pursuit to other pursuits like world class athletic mastery. Very few people have the diacipline, focus, and motivation to do the training to become an Olympic level athlete. That requires very serious drive and self-motivation. Most people just dabble around because they have no gramd vision and low ambition.

The answer to your question is both: it has to be natural AND also you have to force it because the most natural thing is to slack off and lose your focus.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Leo Gura

[itsadistraction]

10 hours ago, KGrimes said:

@itsadistraction It's simply do-nothing approach, right? As in i meditate because I want to, not because I need to. I contemplate because i feel like it, not because I have to, and I shouldn't be chasing anything?

Watch Leo's paradox video.

[KGrimes]

@Leo Gura What's the way out of this? Surely you can break out of the cycle, does a significant enlightenment experience need to happen in order to have your consciousness shift towards looking for truth, like for example on psychadelics? Because after every trip I feel like I will live the spiritual life, but I always fall back, because it's just too different from my daily survival life.

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, KGrimes said:

does a significant enlightenment experience need to happen in order to have your consciousness shift towards looking for truth,

It's hard to say because motivation is such a personal, subjective thing.

I don't know what you need in order to become interested in truth. I have been interesting in it naturally since I was a teen. It barely even makes sense to me how anyone could be interested in anything more than truth.

Most people characteralogically don't care about truth or reality. And I don't know what it takes for them to change that.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Leo Gura

[gettoefl]

most live equal parts sleep work social, me this decade swapped spiritual for social, 4 hours sitting quiet 4 hours spinning ideas here and there

works for me, won't for most

[How to be wise]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Most people characteralogically don't care about truth or reality. And I don't know what it takes for them to change that.

You can understand it with the 16 personalities theory. Your type is INTP, so your hero is Ti, or Introverted Truth.