Do wealthy intelligent people pursue awakening more?

[Soul Flight]

Howdy.

I suspect maybe Jim Carrey and Kanye have had mystical experiences or awakenings. Certain people admit to dabbling in psychedelics like maybe Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Lex Fridman, Andrew Huberman, Terrance McKenna, Ram Dass, Tim Leary, The Beatles, Elon Musk, Joe Rogan, etc. But I get the feeling Steve Jobs, Joe Rogan, and Bill Gates never had a mystical experience or awakening nor were they interested in them. I would guess wealthy intelligent people would pursue psychedelics and awakening. Why don't we hear from more wealthy smart people or even people like Putin or Saudi Royalty or others? Are they afraid of the stigma or loss of political power? Do they know the unwashed masses are not ready for the truth?

Does awakening hit every socioeconomic class equally and in the same percentage? I would guess wealthy smart people would arrive there in higher numbers. Wealth allows people to fulfill Maslow's hierarchy of needs and pursue spiritual needs. But maybe wealthy smart people are too comfortable and are incentivized to self delusion of materialism and creature comfort. "It is easier for a camel to pass though the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven?" Meaning the wealthy cannot find truth. Hardship and difficulty reveal universal truth? So maybe poverty leads to awakening? Maybe ignorance sends poor people into institutional religions which disenfranchises their awakening and channels it to empower the institution and machinery.

Maybe wealthy smart people have too much passion for their business or hobby. I would guess wealthy smart people would all end up at mushrooms and god realization. But I suspect I am wrong.

On the other hand, maybe I am God and I only dreamt all these people and it is all an illusion.

Can you name more wealthy smart people who did psychedelics or are awakened? Why don't they speak more about it? Are there secret enclaves and retreats of awakened people? Is the topic discussed by Oprah, Springsteen, Obama, George Bush, Trump, etc? It's too taboo?

Thanks

[Inliytened1]

@Soul Flight it's not the same kind of smart as an Elon Musk.   It's something else.  It is independent of the ego's motivation for wealth and success.  That - is ego.  Curiosity into reality is actually much more humble.   It is a sort of spiritual intelligence.  You have it, or you don't. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Ajax]

Wealth comes with an incredible number of obligations, responsibilities and problems. These can be some serious distractions and barriers to overcome. Also, public image is a factor. Very few people are fully self-sufficient and rely on reputation, or sponsors of some kind. They depend on some form of popularity, at least publicly. It would not be advantageous to say something controversial or contentious that is in direct opposition to public opinion. If they do make statements, it would be quite diluted.  

Besides, spirituality is a lifelong commitment, requiring a great deal of commitment and dedication as well as ambition. You could call it a career path. Pro-bodybuilders do almost nothing but eat, sleep and train. Most people are not Pro bodybuilders because they won't make that commitment, they would rather do something else with that time. 

Of course, there is the "ego" thing... but I won't get into that lol

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Wealth comes with an incredible number of obligations, responsibilities and problems. These can be some serious distractions and barriers to overcome. Also, public image is a factor. Very few people are fully self-sufficient and rely on reputation, or sponsors of some kind. They depend on some form of popularity, at least publicly. It would not be advantageous to say something controversial or contentious that is in direct opposition to public opinion. If they do make statements, it would be quite diluted.  

Besides, spirituality is a lifelong commitment, requiring a great deal of commitment and dedication as well as ambition. You could call it a career path. 

That's the sad part.  Spirituality shouldn't be like that.  For the Spiritualiy gifted there is no commitment.  It happens without any effort.   The commitment comes after if you decide to teach or spread the word.    But I shutter when you put it in the same category as a career path.  It should be as far from ego as humanly possible.   Yes, the ego has to have the initial curiosity.   But is that ego, or is that your true nature shining through?  You say there is the whole ego thing but you won't get into that - but actually - it's all about that dichotomy. 

[Ajax]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

That's the sad part.  Spirituality shouldn't be like that.  For the Spiritualiy gifted there is no commitment.  It happens without any effort.

Getting there can be challenging to say the least.  We are talking resistance here.

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

But I shutter when you put it in the same category as a career path.  It should be as far from ego as humanly possible. 

LOL Well, to be honest. I was reflecting back on my own personal journey and what it took to get where I am today.

 It took consistency: reading, learning, meditating every day. It took a great deal of financial planning to attend seminars, retreats, classes and the like. It required the determination not to stop and keep going no matter what. Daily practice, long hours and resisting many demands to stop and take it easy. Intense study.

It took handling extreme reactions: fear, exhaustion, unpleasant emotions, sickness. The feelings I was going to die, anger, hate, depression I had to keep my heart and mind on what I wanted to achieve. Feeling like disembodies spirits are possessing my body. lol

It took willingness: It took willingness to allow anything to happen to me. It took willingness to be different. It took willingness to become severely ill. It took willingness to accept any negative body reactions. It took willingness to be judged. It took willingness to be scolded by family and friends. It took willingness to lose everything that I value. It took willingness to lose my wife over this. It took willingness to be destitute. It took a willingness to be brave and stick to what is true to me, even if the entire world disagreed with me.

It took the decision to be able to experience anything, to have anything happen to me. It took the idea to be able to have the view point that problems and difficulties are part of the game and that I can’t lose because it is all part of the same. It took the decision to absolutely admire anything I put into my existence without judgement.  

This journey has taken more than 20 years to achieve this. Maybe other people have been much more fortunate, and I tip my hat to them and kiss their feet in admiration, but for me… well… wasn’t so effortless. Maybe if I had a different viewpoint, it would be different... 

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes, the ego has to have the initial curiosity.   But is that ego, or is that your true nature shining through?  You say there is the whole ego thing but you won't get into that - but actually - it's all about that dichotomy. 

LOL, I was saying that in a partly joking way as I am sure that many other members will add their two cents into the subject. I also wanted to save myself the trouble of opening up that subject, because to go into that subject, and try to come up with a more unique and different facet or perspective… It would require me to tax my mind and go back to many of the aforementioned experiences that illuminate a particular aspect usually covered by common umbrella concepts discussed in spirituality vernacular.

Besides, the concept of ego doesn't really exist much in my mind anymore. I usually forget what it is, I have to keep reminding myself what it is in order to talk about it.  Every time it is discussed, I have to reconceptualize it. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Ajax

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Getting there can be challenging to say the least.  We are talking resistance here.

LOL Well, to be honest. I was reflecting back on my own personal journey and what it took to get where I am today.

 It took consistency: reading, learning, meditating every day. It took a great deal of financial planning to attend seminars, retreats, classes and the like. It required the determination not to stop and keep going no matter what. Daily practice, long hours and resisting many demands to stop and take it easy. Intense study.

It took handling extreme reactions: fear, exhaustion, unpleasant emotions, sickness. The feelings I was going to die, anger, hate, depression I had to keep my heart and mind on what I wanted to achieve. Feeling like disembodies spirits are possessing my body. lol

It took willingness: It took willingness to allow anything to happen to me. It took willingness to be different. It took willingness to become severely ill. It took willingness to accept any negative body reactions. It took willingness to be judged. It took willingness to be scolded by family and friends. It took willingness to lose everything that I value. It took willingness to lose my wife over this. It took willingness to be destitute. It took a willingness to be brave and stick to what is true to me, even if the entire world disagreed with me.

It took the decision to be able to experience anything, to have anything happen to me. It took the idea to be able to have the view point that problems and difficulties are part of the game and that I can’t lose because it is all part of the same. It took the decision to absolutely admire anything I put into my existence without judgement.  

This journey has taken more than 20 years to achieve this. Maybe other people have been much more fortunate, and I tip my hat to them and kiss their feet in admiration, but for me… well… wasn’t so effortless. Maybe if I had a different viewpoint, it would be different... 

LOL, I was saying that in a partly joking way as I am sure that many other members will add their two cents into the subject. I also wanted to save myself the trouble of opening up that subject, because to go into that subject, and try to come up with a more unique and different facet or perspective… It would require me to tax my mind and go back to many of the aforementioned experiences that illuminate a particular aspect usually covered by common umbrella concepts discussed in spirituality vernacular.

Besides, the concept of ego doesn't really exist much in my mind anymore. I usually forget what it is, I have to keep reminding myself what it is in order to talk about it.  Every time it is discussed, I have to reconceptualize it. 

Well...i tip my hat to you.  Honestly its guys like you and Leo that i truly admire.  Spirituality and even enlightenment came easy to me....  For me it took two decades of suffering and two weeks of meditation.    So I tip my hat.  I would ask if you found what you were looking for..but I know that it really doesn't matter.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Ajax]

16 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well...i tip my hat to you.  Honestly its guys like you and Leo that i truly admire.  Spirituality and even enlightenment came easy to me....  For me it took two decades of suffering and two weeks of meditation.    So I tip my hat.  I would ask if you found what you were looking for..but I know that it really doesn't matter.

Wow! Wow! Amazing! 2 weeks. That is really outstanding! I am very impressed! What meditation did you do? Do you have a thread discussing your experience? WOW just WOW!!!

As for finding what I am looking for... I am close, within 5 years I imagine. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Ajax

[Inliytened1]

42 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Wow! Wow! Amazing! 2 weeks. That is really outstanding! I am very impressed! What meditation did you do? Do you have a thread discussing your experience? WOW just WOW!!!

As for finding what I am looking for... I am close, within 5 years I imagine. 

I have many but you would have to go back to 2018.  Meditation is really about.doing notning.   Letting thoughts just come and go.  Sitting in not knowing.   The other is self inquiring into what you are.  Let me ask you this - right now, if you had to say what you truly are, what would it be?  Whatever that is, enlightenment lies behind realizing that is an illusion.

[Soul Flight]

Thank you for your responses.

I guess few people ponder these concepts. Even I only had my epiphany in the middle of my life and late in life. I suppose Plato and most philosophers find these concepts to be the ultimate challenge, but most humans are simply not interested.

I am just confused more wealthy and intelligent people don't all end up at the enlightenment destination. But I guess there are different forms of intelligence and not all intelligence is spiritual intelligence.

I feel once you have over $10M dollars you would start to see money and governments and business for what they really are. You would see past the illusions of fame and celebrity and media. You would start to ponder big questions and search for the absolute and the monad. All the wise men and books all seem to point to the same direction to resolve this crisis.

Maybe it is a big conspiracy and the Church and the governments keep everyone asleep. They make drugs illegal and control the media so no one can reach an awakening.

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, Soul Flight said:

 

Maybe it is a big conspiracy and the Church and the governments keep everyone asleep. They make drugs illegal and control the media so no one can reach an awakening.

None if it is a conspiracy.   It's just what people have been born into.  If you aren't Awake how can you plot against Awakening?   Your job is to keep the mind open and entertain all possibilities.   If you do that, you have a shot.  This is why we speak of genetics.  Most people just don't have it in them to think outside the box or to keep the mind open.   They are born into one thing and they never ponder if there could be anything outside of that.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Inliytened1

[SOUL]

@Soul Flight I was broke and dumb yet living in liberation during my youth so any material condition can be transcended. It may seem like money is an especially distracting aspect of human life whether one has it or not but it isn't a new one.

Whatever is a stepping stone along our path we use to grow in our healthy evolution can be turned into a stumbling block by the ego. Whatever tool we have for our inner work the ego can use it as a weapon against us in that work.

We can overcome 1000 challenges but the ego will stack up 1001 for us to accomplish, there is nothing the conditional mind won't use to separate us from what it believes it doesn't have. Our existential yearning for some perceived lack is the very 'desire' spoken of so many years ago.

So ultimately, there are no amounts of fruit from the material world that can quench this quest that appears innate in our consciousness. There is nothing in the manifest appearance to suggest that transcending it is as powerful as it is. That not doing is the most useful thing to do.

Just be it.

 

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Soul Flight I was broke and dumb yet living in liberation during my youth so any material condition can be transcended. It may seem like money is an especially distracting aspect of human life whether one has it or not but it isn't a new one.

Whatever is a stepping stone along our path we use to grow in our healthy evolution can be turned into a stumbling block by the ego. Whatever tool we have for our inner work the ego can use it as a weapon against us in that work.

We can overcome 1000 challenges but the ego will stack up 1001 for us to accomplish, there is nothing the conditional mind won't use to separate us from what it believes it doesn't have. Our existential yearning for some perceived lack is the very 'desire' spoken of so many years ago.

So ultimately, there are no amounts of fruit from the material world that can quench this quest that appears innate in our consciousness. There is nothing in the manifest appearance to suggest that transcending it is as powerful as it is. That not doing is the most useful thing to do.

Just be it.

 

Awesome.  I love it   

For many - they are not self aware of the ego.  They are within the ego.  To look outside the ego- that's hard.  But what is actually easy is spirituality.  And yet the ego wants  to steer you away from true spirituality.   It brings you instead to religion - because that feeds its power. 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Inliytened1

[UnbornTao]

It makes little difference. Survival is a struggle for everyone, and countless humans have had awakening experiences in totally different circumstances. Having some space and free time helps, though.

Enlightenment is pursued while life happens. For example, Gautama renounced wealth in order to pursue freedom from life and death.

Edited August 26, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

Very successful people like celebrities and CEOs are insanely ambitious workaholics, so by the time they acheive their success they are usually so wrapped up and addicted to it that they have no time for serious spiritual work. They have chosen success over God. Elon Musk is the perfect example. He will never awaken because he's too busy working. Of course there are exceptions, but it's rare.

But on the other hand, poor people are usually struggling so much just to survive and pay their bills that they also have no time for serious spiritual work.

This explains why so few ever realized God. Ta-daaa!

In general, having wealth gives you more freedom to take time off from work. This is a huge advantage. However, you have to actually dare to exercise it in the right way, which most wealthy people never do. Wealth, fame, power, and sex are very addictive and corrupting. Most people in life are chasing after wealth, fame, power, sex, or love. Or they are barely able to feed themselves. And so they never realize God.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Husseinisdoingfine]

''No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon (mammon meaning wealth).''

Mathew 6:24 KJV

[Soul Flight]

21 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

For many - they are not self aware of the ego.  They are within the ego.  To look outside the ego- that's hard.  But what is actually easy is spirituality.  And yet the ego wants  to steer you away from true spirituality.   It brings you instead to religion - because that feeds its power. 

@Inliytened1 Ah ha. I see. They live a whole life inside the ego.

 

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Most people in life are chasing after wealth, fame, power, sex, or love. Or they are barely able to feed themselves. And so they never realize God.

@Leo Gura Ahhh. Maybe there is a bell curve. Too poor and you are distracted trying to survive. Too rich and you are deluded by a materialistic success.

7 hours ago, Vibes said:

And, when you start spirituality early, you lose the motivation to pursue money and wealth. Money is just something you must have in order to not worry too much and free your mind to focus on finding what the hell is going on underneath all the busyness of life.

@Vibes So true. You realize the biggest game to play is spirituality.

 

4 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

''No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon (mammon meaning wealth).''

Mathew 6:24 KJV

@Husseinisdoingfine Nice relevant bible drop. Thank you.

Thanks for all your replies.

Isn't there a form of Buddhism which advocates hedonism? And Leo recommends indulging each stage of spiral dynamics and progressing up the stages. We must satiate each desire and not skip stages. Likewise, I would assume wealthy people would follow all the roads of sex, lust, power, fame, and money and realize each road leads to a dead end. They are ultimately empty and hollow victories. They should eventually realize awakening and god realization is the ultimate challenge. Shouldn't pick-up artists eventually turn to awakening?

I am just surprised wealthy intelligent people who are on the awakening journey are not more vocal. Silence is complicity. What we ignore we condone. They have the megaphone but don’t use it.

I guess that dang ego is just too tricky for everyone. Most people get seduced by believing they are successful and accomplished.

But I dreamed up all these wealthy intelligent people and this forum. And now I am feeling the pull of my own egoistic spiritual arrogance.   I see you ego!

Edited August 25, 2023 by Soul Flight

[SOUL]

21 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

And yet the ego wants  to steer you away from true spirituality.   It brings you instead to religion - because that feeds its power. 

The ego loves all forms of belief systems, including the many mystical varieties that fill 'spiritual' forums like this one as well...because its attachment identity flourishes within the conceptualizations of the mind and is its 'kingdom'.

It also attaches emotions to make it even more of a powerful connection, it uses mystical experience to inspire even more attachment to its identity, it brands it with words like 'truth' and 'god' to justify its attachment to it.

The ego isn't 'bad' or 'wrong'...it just is what it is and what it is often can be the source of self suffering. Money and wealth are really just another belief system that creates the illusion of separation that we are incomplete, that we lack so it causes self suffering.

3 hours ago, Soul Flight said:

I see you ego!

Just the way it likes it....

Edited August 25, 2023 by SOUL

[Hardkill]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Very successful people like celebrities and CEOs are insanely ambitious workaholics, so by the time they acheive their success they are usually so wrapped up and addicted to it that they have no time for serious spiritual work. They have chosen success over God. Elon Musk is the perfect example. He will never awaken because he's too busy working. Of course there are exceptions, but it's rare.

But on the other hand, poor people are usually struggling so much just to survive and pay their bills that they also have no time for serious spiritual work.

This explains why so few ever realized God. Ta-daaa!

In general, having wealth gives you more freedom to take time off from work. This is a huge advantage. However, you have to actually dare to exercise it in the right way, which most wealthy people never do. Wealth, fame, power, and sex are very addictive and corrupting. Most people in life are chasing after wealth, fame, power, sex, or love. Or they are barely able to feed themselves. And so they never realize God.

Plus, there actually are a lot of celebrities and rich people who had it pretty easy to begin with like the Kardashians and the Jenner family. I mean I know that Kim K and her sisters have done some hard work to maintain their fame, success, and wealth, but like Trump they had it pretty easy to begin with. They never have had to face anywhere near as much adversity, risks, or other kinds of challenges as like Elon Musk did. Furthermore, most celebrities are not very intelligent and not very educated and have never been forced to use much brainpower to make it through the world or even bother to have enough of a deep understanding of the world.

I don't like Musk as a person, but I at least gotta to give him real respect for being able to totally had to totally pull himself up by his own bootstraps and becoming a self-made man. Plus, he's way smarter, much more educated, and uses his brain way more for the good of society than most other celebrities out there who are just a bunch of dimwitted fools who haven't even got a clue about high intellectual matters. Most of them aren't even capable of being able to understand how the world works in a highly nuanced manner or even think in a deeply philosophical manner. 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill Be careful not to over-generalize. Celebrities can be pretty smart. You gotta be smart to be a successful celerity consistently without destroying yourself in the process. Being a celebrity is not easy.

But many of them are trapped in that celebrity materialist bubble.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill Be careful not to over-generalize. Celebrities can be pretty smart. You gotta be smart to be a successful celerity consistently without destroying yourself in the process. Being a celebrity is not easy.

But many of them are trapped in that celebrity materialist bubble.

Oh come on, I mean what about Trump and Reagan who dumb celebrity tv/hollywood actors turned politicians?

What about Tom Cruise and his really moronic take on psychiatry and drugs?

You really think that the Kardashians and their extended family really know how to start or run a business all by themselves like you did yourself?

Either way, most of them don't have an impressive intellect. I am not a genius, but at least I graduated from top universities for both my bachelor's, Master's, currently getting my doctorate in physical therapy, took many other outside college courses to fully round out my education, have been a deep critical thinker about the world ever since I was in my mid-teens, have talents in real Fine Arts, read up on books on philosophy, have a greater understanding about the politics and the world than most people do. My parents who are highly sophisticated, intelligent, very well educated, well read, successful individuals who have lived very long lives look down upon most celebrities as being highly overrated simpletons who never bothered to develop their brains. 

Most celebrity musicians quickly run out new original kinds of songs that aren't really all that new. Many of them ruin their own relationships/marriages/families, drug addicts, alcoholics, high school/college dropouts, smoke cigarettes/weed regularly, get into a lot of times attempted or have to committed suicide, have stupid opinions and ideas about how to positively influence or help the world. Moreover, they eventually become fads. Same thing with most celebrity actors. 

Celebrity athletes are perhaps an exception. I actually respect the immense amount of real work they put into training and competing in their sport every single day. Bodybuilding/physique/fitness competition, CrossFit, strongman competition, long-distance events, combat sports are particularly some of the most demanding and challenging kinds of activities in the world.

Besides, most celebrities eventually destroy themselves by the time the reach their 50s to 60s. I mean what happened to Mel Gibson after around 2006? He used to be this extremely popular and handsome actor in his prime and his acting was actually not bad at all back. Then, he blew it with his entire career because of his alcoholism, anti-semitism, and sexist abuse. There are tons of other examples of other famous actors/actresses like him.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Hardkill