Being aware of Absolute Truth is Impossible

[Breakingthewall]

32 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War

Because nationalistic war causes suffering and is not done because of love for the whole but only for a part, if at all.

That nationalism is only a human concept that is based on the number one rule of life: competition.

How do you know which form, whether physical or in the form of ideas, systems, norms, whatever, is going to prevail and which one will disappear? by force. In the Middle Ages they were very clear about it with judgment of God. Who has the reason? the one who wins. that is the only law of life, aka god.

suffering? who cares? all living beings are soldiers with a mission: evolution. life is one, and in it a chemical reaction is taking place, an alchemy, an evolution, and suffering is part of the recipe. 

The thing is that war maybe is not necessary for the evolution that is taking place, but if it were necessary, if will happen, and it's not bad, just life

Edited August 27, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

Yes, but no sane spiritual meditation system promotes nationalistic war. Only sick ones. And sick ones dont persist. That is not sustainable for a transcendence-oriented spiritual tradition. And that is what happened with Zen at war.

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

but no sane spiritual meditation system promotes nationalistic war

Yes, of course, meditation is about achieving unity, blurring and making separation disappear, then a meditation system that promotes any kind of violence would be nonsense. Another thing is that reality does not promote violence. it does . 

[Inliytened1]

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

Meditation time? Didn't count, but well over 10.000 hours in nearly 20 years. In the beginning mainly sitting, but soon taking it off the pillow with Mahamudra/Dzogchen. And the practice and being in these states continues, with a (much) higher focus and priority than studies/books. Just because it is the most beautiful and blissful activity I can engage in. So here we align also. As actually in nearly all points as soon as we actually start exchanging perspectives, and assumptions get reduced.

 

In all of those 10,000 hours did you ever do self inquiry?  I don't think you did.  What do you think you are?   What do you truly believe you are right now?  Because one - I don't believe you.  And two, if you spent that much time - which is a lie in my opinion - then yes, as an enlightened being I am going to poke you now.   So have you truly sat in self inquiry?  If so, what or who did you think you are?

My friend - self inquiry is the key to enlightenment.  It's not a bunch of this or that - it's not that.   It's self inquiry.  Leo didn't have the genetics for it.  Perhaps nor do you.   But have you tried it?  I at least hope that you have.  But I can surely tell you this -  If you want enlightenment- it won't come from books.  Leo is not actually enlightened.  He only reached enlightened states via psychedelics.   There is a difference.   

Edited August 27, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

On 25/8/2023 at 9:27 AM, Water by the River said:

The Tibetan Buddhists tend to avoid claiming and commenting on their realization, or that of others. They just say: The conduct with which one lives ones life, that is the best way to judge realization. Both at oneself and others. Life will point out with suffering any realization just claimed or imagined and not actualized.

Well said.

On 25/8/2023 at 3:18 AM, Inliytened1 said:

Start speaking with your own words or you will be kicked out of here.  I'm tired of seeing the stuff you've picked up from books

Well, there are many here who speak with our own words. It is good to also read words that have endured over time, maybe there is a reason why that has happened

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well said.

Well, there are many here who speak with our own words. It is good to also read words that have endured over time, maybe there is a reason why that has happened

Ancient texts are crafted with a modern hand.  With our hand.  He's a good dude.  I just want him to do the work. He is lying about that 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Ancient texts are crafted with a modern hand.  With our hand.  He's a good dude.  I just want him to do the work. He is lying about that 

I'd say that he has done more work than everyone on this forum put together, and that he chooses texts that match his personal realizations. He also has a memory and an ability to find quotes from books and old conversations in the forum typical of an AI. is what I read between the lines, but of course, you never know

Edited August 27, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'd say that he has done more work than everyone on this forum put together, and that he chooses texts that match his personal achievements. He also has a memory and an ability to find old conversations in the forum typical of an AI. is what I read between the lines, but of course, you never know

Perhaps you are right.  But I can look into him because I am him.  So I know deep down he hasn't really sat in self inquiry.  He prefers to let things come from others.  His brilliance shines, but nonetheless, that is not enlightenment.  And yeah, who cares.  Who cares.  Well, maybe someone does.  Maybe it does matter.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Razard86]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Perhaps you are right.  But I can look into him because I am him.  So I know deep down he hasn't really sat in self inquiry.  He prefers to let things come from others.  His brilliance shines, but nonetheless, that is not enlightenment.  And yeah, who cares.  Who cares.  Well, maybe someone does.  Maybe it does matter.

I can speak from personal experience, enlightenment is not based on genetics. It's influenced by it sure but not determined. 

The highest determinant factor is just how much do you value truth/love. If it was genetics my family would produce tons of enlightened people. 

My family values survival over truth/love just like everyone else. I literally cannot talk about this stuff with them.

Also enlightenment changed my genetics. My body doesn't function the same way anymore. It's smoother. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Razard86

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

His brilliance shines, but nonetheless, that is not enlightenment

But what is enlightenment? there are levels of openness to reality, and there are moments of absolute dissolution, when you completely drop the self. (which by the way fit his description of impersonal empty conciousness) but then those moments pass, and you return to limited state. from that state we create stories about what reality is, but they have little value. what has value is the opening now. How far can that opening go? We don't know, the work is to open more and more the reality (so us). I'd say that on the one hand, there is enlightenment, now realizing your true nature, of the total emptiness that is the infinite, that same time is everything, and on the other hand, there is the understanding of the cosmos, of God. I would say that God is the cosmos. God is a creation. you are god in the sense that you are the reality happening, but before god you are the empty ocean of being. but maybe in a month I'll say something different. 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Razard86 said:

I can speak from personal experience, enlightenment is not based on genetics. It's influenced by it sure but not determined. 

The highest determinant factor is just how much do you value truth/love. If it was genetics my family would produce tons of enlightened people. 

My family values survival over truth/love just like everyone else. I literally cannot talk about this stuff with them.

I'm afraid it's not that simple. What your family deems is Truth/Love is something they will never question.   They will never question what they were born into.  And that's OK.  But notice - from a young age you questioned everything.  Your mind was wide open.   

[Inliytened1]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

But what is enlightenment? 

 

What is enlightenment.   That is the question of the hour.  If i could answer that with words, for it truly would not be enlightenment.   So no, I cannot answer that.  We should stop here.  For everything thereafter is a feeble attempt to explain something beyond all explanation.  Beyond all logic.  All of this- this is entertainment.  If you have awoken from the dream, then sit back and entertain yourself here.  If you have not - then strap yourself in - plug up all the wires in the chair - and pull the plug.  Get out of the matrix.   Then and only then should you be here speaking about the matrix.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Razard86]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I'm afraid it's not that simple. What your family deems is Truth/Love is something they will never question.   They will never question what they were born into.  And that's OK.  But notice - from a young age you questioned everything.  Your mind was wide open.   

Yeah but that was triggered from me being bullied from small. Without me being bullied....I would never have questioned anything. It was like events pushed this actuality and I could either resist it or accept it.

I did the latter. I was the red headed step child pretty much everywhere I went. I was born an extrovert but my environment pushed me to be an introvert. It's why just saying genetics is not that simple. For example if I was born into a rich wealthy family. I would not be awake. Even Buddha had to change his environment. Don't underestimate the power of environment.

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Yeah but that was triggered from me being bullied from small. Without me being bullied....I would never have questioned anything. It was like events pushed this actuality and I could either resist it or accept it.

I did the latter. I was the red headed step child pretty much everywhere I went. I was born an extrovert but my environment pushed me to be an introvert. It's why just saying genetics is not that simple. For example if I was born into a rich wealthy family. I would not be awake. Even Buddha had to change his environment. Don't underestimate the power of environment.

Its even prior to that.  How you are wired dictates absolutely everything.  It wasn't that you were bullied - it was because you were you that you reacted to that bullying in a certain way.  You were born with a sense of self.  That sense of self is your genetics.   Genetics, after all, is imaginary.   You are imaginary.  But you came into this world - or to put it better - you were imagined into this world - a certain way.   Here is where solipsism comes in.  You are the only Being in existence- so of course you are open minded!  If you weren't, who else would be?  Who else would be there to discover God?  Just God.  It's a masterful mind trick.   All of it.  But we can play the game all day.  It will be just another round.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Water by the River]

27 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

 All of this- this is entertainment.  If you have awoken from the dream, then sit back and entertain yourself here. 

The answer on the little Koans you gave me is: chuckle. But a loving one.

And concerning the years and hours practiced: That is no lie. If you also claim clairvoyance besides Enlightenment, I would check the clair-part of the voyance.

For self-enquiry: sure, done for a loooong time. Never found myself. Only everything, and the chuckle.

And now something for you my imaginary friend: Sovereignity as God: yes. But also skillfull means, humility,  love and compassion with all children of your Being, to the best of your abilities.

So lets smoke the pipe of peace. I am happy that you are here.

And if its in your nature to sometimes do the Vajrakilaya-thing, there are plenty of conceptual God-Egos still proclaiming a not really finished Realization to grind the axe upon. 

Water by the River

 

 

 

[Princess Arabia]

40 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You were born with a sense of self.

We weren't born with a sense of self. That gets developed after a certain age, between 7-9yrs old. Before that there is no sense of self.

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

The answer on the little Koans you gave me is: chuckle. But a loving one.

And concerning the years and hours practiced: That is no lie. If you also claim clairvoyance besides Enlightenment, I would check the clair-part of the voyance.

For self-enquiry: sure, done for a loooong time. Never found myself. Only everything, and the chuckle.

And now something for you my imaginary friend: Sovereignity as God: yes. But also skillfull means, humility,  love and compassion with all children of your Being, to the best of your abilities.

So lets smoke the pipe of peace. I am happy that you are here.

And if its in your nature to sometimes do the Vajrakilaya-thing, there are plenty of conceptual God-Egos still proclaiming a not really finished Realization to grind the axe upon. 

Water by the River

 

 

 

You cut me to the quick.  I am working on my humility.   It is there.   But there are times when a lack of it may come in handy.  If you have put in the time - then indeed - i shall tip my hat.  I apologize if I overstepped.   We do that here from time to time.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

19 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

We weren't born with a sense of self. That gets developed after a certain age, between 7-9yrs old. Before that there is no sense of self.

I beg to differ. I think your sense of identity is ingrained.  That sense of identity is intangible- and the only reason you think it gets developed is because that's as far back as you can remember.   

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Its even prior to that.  How you are wired dictates absolutely everything.  It wasn't that you were bullied - it was because you were you that you reacted to that bullying in a certain way.  You were born with a sense of self.  That sense of self is your genetics.   Genetics, after all, is imaginary.   You are imaginary.  But you came into this world - or to put it better - you were imagined into this world - a certain way.   Here is where solipsism comes in.  You are the only Being in existence- so of course you are open minded!  If you weren't, who else would be?  Who else would be there to discover God?  Just God.  It's a masterful mind trick.   All of it.  But we can play the game all day.  It will be just another round.

I can only speak from my own personal experience. But when you are an extrovert forced due to survival to be by yourself and to be seen not heard....all that desire to express...goes inward. Let's say majority of my life has been spent in solitude. I have been introspective out of habit for decades. 

Had I fit in like my twin brother we would be having a different conversation. And yes the Solipsism part.....blows my mind. My ego ain't too happy that this was the method I used to awaken lol. 

But life is truly an adventure. 

[Princess Arabia]

32 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I beg to differ. I think your sense of identity is ingrained.  That sense of identity is intangible- and the only reason you think it gets developed is because that's as far back as you can remember.   

Ever thought the reason you can't remember that far back is because there's no sense of self.