Leo is Wrong About Genetics

[Twega]

Leo said, "Health is largely genetics". I think because Leo is struggling with health (I feel for you my man <3 ), potentially a genetic disease, he started to develop this opinion based on his experience.

First of all, in some instances genetics are determinants, other times, they are correlational. Huntington disease is an inherited disorder, in this case Leo is right.

However, most people do not possess such genetic disorders, most "bad genetics" increase the probability of certain diseases, but they do not determine it. Let's not forget that epigenetics is also real, and some genes can be turned on or off. Leo said you should eat "according to your genetics". Again, if you have an allergy or intolerance, then he is right. Most people have no such conditions.

This advice can be taken in a very wrong way. Health is not largely genetics for the majority of people. This is just false and I am tempted to post a long ass post filled with actual research to back up my point.

Love you Leo.

[Danioover9000]

@Twega

15 minutes ago, Twega said:

Leo said, "Health is largely genetics". I think because Leo is struggling with health (I feel for you my man <3 ), potentially a genetic disease, he started to develop this opinion based on his experience.

First of all, in some instances genetics are determinants, other times, they are correlational. Huntington disease is an inherited disorder, in this case Leo is right.

However, most people do not possess such genetic disorders, most "bad genetics" increase the probability of certain diseases, but they do not determine it. Let's not forget that epigenetics is also real, and some genes can be turned on or off. Leo said you should eat "according to your genetics". Again, if you have an allergy or intolerance, then he is right. Most people have no such conditions.

This advice can be taken in a very wrong way. Health is not largely genetics for the majority of people. This is just false and I am tempted to post a long ass post filled with actual research to back up my point.

Love you Leo.

   So what is your main argument here? That @Leo Gura is wrong about genetics because he said 'health is largely genetics', and you took it as an absolute claim? And if you do have research links do share them here.

   IMO, factors like genetics and body composition can play a part, and so does willpower and determination, although that too could be influenced by brain chemistry and brain modules being more or less active. Take for example this man:

   Clearly he exhibits strength that not the average male body can produce, yet he can produce such strength, and not just him but hundreds of old school strongmen can do, from Bruce Lee, to Charles Atlas, and so on.

[Twega]

11 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Twega

   So what is your main argument here? That @Leo Gura is wrong about genetics because he said 'health is largely genetics', and you took it as an absolute claim? And if you do have research links do share them here.

   IMO, factors like genetics and body composition can play a part, and so does willpower and determination, although that too could be influenced by brain chemistry and brain modules being more or less active. Take for example this man:

   Clearly he exhibits strength that not the average male body can produce, yet he can produce such strength, and not just him but hundreds of old school strongmen can do, from Bruce Lee, to Charles Atlas, and so on.

We are talking about general health, not height or sex, or physical attributes. This is irrelevant to my point.

 

My main argument is that Leo overestimates the impact of heritable genetics on health in the "healthy" population. He underestimates environment/lifestyle on health and also on epigenetics. He also confuses genetics which literally determine traits or disease, and genetics which increase the probability of having a disease.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Twega

[Danioover9000]

@Twega

9 minutes ago, Twega said:

We are talking about general health, not height or sex, or physical attributes. This is irrelevant to my point.

 

My main argument is that Leo overestimates the impact of heritable genetics on health in the "healthy" population. He underestimates environment/lifestyle on health and also on epigenetics. He also confuses genetics which literally determine traits or disease, and genetics which increase the probability of having a disease.

   We? I thought it's only you talking about general health, and genetics? I'm just including genetics, body composition, and other developmental factors that could influence gene expression one way or another into this discourse.

   Where exactly does @Leo Gura overestimates the impact of heritable genetics in the healthy population, underestimates environmental/lifestyle on health and epigenetic? Where does @Leo Gura confuse genetics with determined traits/diseases?

Edited August 21, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Leo Gura]

If you have good health it is entirely because of your genetics.

If one bit of your DNA was off, you'd be dead. You just take all this for granted. And you will continue to do so until you lose your health for reasons you cannot control.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Jayson G]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

If you have good health it is entirely because of your genetics.

If one bit of your DNA was off, you'd be dead. You just take all this for granted. And you will continue to do so until you lose your health for reasons you cannot control.

but are you saying good health then isn't in our control if its just all genetics? don't genetics only make up a pillar of good health, as there are many factors to good health?

[undeather]

Besides some very penetrating conditions (OP mentioned Huntington) we know next to nothing about the true weight of nature vs. nurture in most health problems. We do have ideas, trends and sometimes even educated guesses, but most of what we call "genetic" is based on a hypercomplex, combinatorially explosive set of influences. 

On the other side, I can totally relate with @Leo Gura. I also suffer from a very annoying health issue and after consulting a shitton of medical practitioners (orthodox and alternative) while also being a MD myself I find myself in position where it just feels like a genetic cause. 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by undeather

[Karmadhi]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And you will continue to do so until you lose your health for reasons you cannot control.

Do you still have insane stomach pains whenever you eat fruits and veggies or you are just tired a lot? I remember you made a blog video about eating something that caused you immense pain for 2 hours.

[D2sage]

Don't trust Leo fully on health since he used to ban everyone who criticized covid vaccine and call them anti-vaxxers.

Many people got worse health after Pfizer vaccine.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by D2sage

[Danioover9000]

@D2sage

1 hour ago, D2sage said:

Don't trust Leo fully on health since he used to ban everyone who criticized covid vaccine and call them anti-vaxxers.

Many people got worse health after Pfizer vaccine.

 

   What does this have to do with OP's thread? And what would you have done in that timeline, of this serious virus that's rapidly spreading? It's not enough to rely on data and information gathered now, you have to consider a point in history where we had no idea how severe this rapidly spreading virus could have been, see? What would be the cost of inaction, 5 years of science testing of this vaccine, and a more liberal approach from governments and businesses regarding this pandemic, versus a more conservative political approach of lock down policies, and a more liberal action of rushing vaccine development within a year in anticipation to the lethality of this virus?

[D2sage]

4 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

What does this have to do with OP's thread?

That Leo can be wrong.

"Health is largely genetics".

Health issues can be genetics but ones health is not largely determined by genetics. Stress management and the air quality you breath is crucial among other factors like diet and sleep.

You can have the best genetics but if you breath shit air and eat junk food and stress every day, you will have health issues.

@Leo Gura

Why does Japan have low rates of chronic diseases, obesity, diabetes and heart diseases?

Is it because of their cultural lifestyle, anti-smoking campaigns, low saturated fats in foods among other things, or is it pure genetics?

 

Why are so many people obese in America? Is it genetics or is it because McDonalds and the sugar?

Edited August 22, 2023 by D2sage

[bambi]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you have good health it is entirely because of your genetics.

If one bit of your DNA was off, you'd be dead. You just take all this for granted. And you will continue to do so until you lose your health for reasons you cannot control.

 

How do you think about genetics and metaphysics.. i.e. your genetics is an expression of a higher metaphysical vector

[Danioover9000]

@D2sage

56 minutes ago, D2sage said:

That Leo can be wrong.

"Health is largely genetics".

Health issues can be genetics but ones health is not largely determined by genetics. Stress management and the air quality you breath is crucial among other factors like diet and sleep.

You can have the best genetics but if you breath shit air and eat junk food and stress every day, you will have health issues.

@Leo Gura

Why does Japan have low rates of chronic diseases, obesity, diabetes and hearth diseases?

Is it because of their cultural lifestyle, anti-smoking campaigns, low saturated fats in foods among other things, or is it pure genetics?

 

Why are so many people obese in America? Is it genetics or is it because McDonalds and the sugar?

   But why emphasize @Leo Gura being wrong, when generally most other people can be wrong?

   Yes, health issues can largely be genetic, and health is somewhat determined by genetics, plus stress, environmental factors like toxicity in air pollution, water quality, toxicity in foods, diet, sleep, nutrition, exercise activity ECT. However, why are you honing down specifically to Leo being wrong then?

   Japan's collective health issues are both a combination of their homogenous genetics, and environmental actions. Same with America. How does these have to do with one man, @Leo Gura, being wrong? In fact this whole thread is just WHACK and CORNY AF, like a passive aggressive complaint. How about taking care of your own health instead of trying to argue and have a heated debate over some other person's health??

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Jayson G said:

but are you saying good health then isn't in our control if its just all genetics? don't genetics only make up a pillar of good health, as there are many factors to good health?

Just because you got good genetics and good health does not mean you can't destroy it with reckless habits.

So to have good health you need both good genetics and decent eating habits.

Mostly all the good health habits which exist are not giving you health, they are just preventing you from losing your health. Creating health out of thin air is not really a thing.

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Do you still have insane stomach pains whenever you eat fruits and veggies or you are just tired a lot? I remember you made a blog video about eating something that caused you immense pain for 2 hours.

My situation is a lot better now but I still have to be very careful about what I eat or I will have pain.

1 hour ago, bambi said:

How do you think about genetics and metaphysics.. i.e. your genetics is an expression of a higher metaphysical vector

That's too difficult for me to discern. It's a very tangled system. When I speak of genetics I am speaking in a relative sense, not an absolute.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Scholar]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just because you got good genetics and good health does not mean you can't destroying it with reckless eating habits.

So to have good health you need both good genetics and decent eating habits.

Mostly all the good health habits which exist are not giving you health, they are just preventing you from losing your health. Creating health out of thin air is not really a thing.

My situation is a lot better now but I still have to be very careful about what I eat or I will have pain.

That's too difficult for me to discern. It's a very tangled system.

For me, Hashimoto's is definitely related to my gut micro-biome. There are studies that indicate the two are related. Especially if you consume iodine (which you have to be careful on with Hashimoto's) I found that my thyroid reacts really badly when I do not actively take probiotics and prebiotics. And actual pills with probiotics, not food. Food does not actually help that much as it requires way more bacteria.

 

But depending on what is going on with your gut, probiotics will not be sufficient. You have to know specifically what strains of bacteria you have that might be harmful and what types you need to resupply, and all of that has to happen in the right order and with the right diet for it to work. So it actually requires a specialist.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Scholar

[D2sage]

 

8 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

How about taking care of your own health instead of trying to argue and have a heated debate over some other person's health??

How about you stop stroking his cock every time someone argue against him?

What heat? Are you 12? 

 

 

The environment control the expression of genes. You cant make great health genes out of thin air.

While genetics do play a role, it's not accurate to say that good health is entirely determined by genetics alone.

Both genes and DNA can be influenced by the food you eat and the environment. It can cause changes in gene expression, epigenetic modifications, and mutations in DNA.

Tobacco, heavy metals, pollutions, car fumes and charred foods has shown to bind to DNA and cause mutation.

Genes account for about 10 percent of human disease but the vast majority, the other 90 percent of our risk of disease, is determined by our environment—including modifiable lifestyle behaviors such as our nutrition, stress levels, sleep habits , and physical activity.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/exposome/

Edited August 23, 2023 by D2sage

[Twega]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:32 AM, Leo Gura said:

If you have good health it is entirely because of your genetics.

If one bit of your DNA was off, you'd be dead. You just take all this for granted. And you will continue to do so until you lose your health for reasons you cannot control.

@Leo Gura  Leo, I don't neccesirly disagree. Yes, health is limited to how "far" our genes can take us. Eventually, we all lose this battle. Certain genes are correlated with longevity

 

However, you ignore other factors (nutrition, exercise) alter gene expression. If you believe genes are important for health than you have to recognize what other factors influence genes

You don't differentiate between genes which determine a specific health outcome and genes which increase the probability of contracting a disease, and it is possible to decrease said risk to baseline normal levels with lifestyle factors (Not my opinion).

You say, "eat according to your genes", other than intolerances and allergies, we all have the same species gene. Sure, some people metabolize caffeine slower, but all of us can drink coffee.. You see what I'm saying? Its not like there are some people who can drink coffee and others don't because of their genetics.

 

And guess what? Some foods can alter gene expression and increase the metabolism of drugs like caffeine. Genes are intertwined with environment, you can't reduce to simply genes.

 

There are genetic disorders that render the body unable to synthesize carnitine, simply supplementing with carnitine resolves this issue; there are so many examples of such cases.

 

Doesn't mean you will be immortal, or your health won't fail. But how can you pinpoint the reason for health failing simply on genes alone? Surely you don't think the body is that simple... I respect you so much but I doubt your ability to discern health outcomes.

 

I also want people to realize this because the majority of you like all of us have some good genes and some bad. And unless you can literally tell me what gene you have thats causing you problems best not assume that....

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Twega said:

However, you ignore other factors (nutrition, exercise) alter gene expression. If you believe genes are important for health than you have to recognize what other factors influence genes

I don't ignore those factors. Those factors matter, but they assume a decent genetic foundation.

People who hyper-focus on nutrition and exercise are actually people who have great baseline genetics and they fool themselves that it's their nutrition and exercise which gave it to them, when that's not the case. This is a very common point of self-deception within the whole health industry.

A person with bad genetics will never be as healthy as a person with good genetics no matter how good he eats and no matter how bad the healthy person eats.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't ignore those factors. Those factors matter, but they assume a decent genetic foundation.

People who hyper-focus on nutrition and exercise are actually people who have great baseline genetics and they fool themselves that it's their nutrition and exercise which gave it to them, when that's not the case. This is a very common point of self-deception within the whole health industry.

A person with bad genetics will never be as healthy as a person with good genetics no matter how good he eats and no matter how bad the healthy person eats.

I'm not disagreeing nor agreeing because idk for a fact but are you basing this on scientific data, or personal observation or other reasons. Also, is it a coincidence that, from my observation, I see most people with chronic health conditions have poor eating habits and most people with healthier eating habits less prone to chronic ailments or degenerative diseases. I'm aware genetics plays a factor, but can also be altered by outside factors. 

[undeather]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't ignore those factors. Those factors matter, but they assume a decent genetic foundation.

People who hyper-focus on nutrition and exercise are actually people who have great baseline genetics and they fool themselves that it's their nutrition and exercise which gave it to them, when that's not the case. This is a very common point of self-deception within the whole health industry.

A person with bad genetics will never be as healthy as a person with good genetics no matter how good he eats and no matter how bad the healthy person eats.

This is true. Some genetic impacts can be influenced or even turned around through meticulous life-style changes, others are just penetrating to a degree where they won't respond to anything you do. A particular family we used to treat comes to my mind - The father had a heart attack in his mid 40's despite being a low-risk lifestyle (very fit, pretty healthy diet). Turned out he had a severe case of familial hypercholesterolemia, a genetic lipid  disorder which made his LDL go up to 400-500 (Healthy levels are below 100). In fact, a family history unveiled that almost every family member on his side had at least one cardiovascular event before the age of 50. We screened his children and other close relatives - around 3/4 of them had the same disorder with extremely high lipid-parametres. The 20 year old son alerady had severe atherosclerotic plaque build up in his carotid arteries.

The scary thing is that it was almost impossible to lower through any lifestyle changes whatsoever. They have tried an absurd number of different diets and alternative practices. Some of them made the problem even worse. Even statins did not seem to help. What finally changed the game was an agressive therapy with PSCK-9 inhibitors, a relatively new class of drug which mimics the genetic component in a positive way. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by undeather