Maybe Legalizing Drugs Is Not Such A Good Idea?

[Javfly33]

On 21/08/2023 at 0:15 AM, How to be wise said:

A LOT MORE people would become addicted to cocaine. If you think there’s an addiction problem now, wait till you see half the country addicted to it. The entire country will come to a standstill. 

Society will go through various phases.

There must happen the phase where the majority of the population discover high states of awareness and intensity (like cocaine does, although not in a very clean way), to then becoming addicted to them, to then realising taking drugs is unsustainable to the human mechanism. 

Is only when this two things happens (First discovering a wide range of pleasurable states of consciousness + Realising getting to that is unsustainable), when humanity will start to move forward to the only solution: Constructing a society with the first focus and priority in producing and activating this states on our own. 

Just imagine if all the energy, concentration and investment of time of the human species that is currently going into developing cutting edge tech, meds, food, entertainment, etc...all the bullshit human society waste time on it, would be entirely developed on achieving and discovering the mastery of our bodies and minds to produce this states on our own. 

Society path into infinite Love can not be stopped! And that starts by selling snow at the Pharmacy 

On 21/08/2023 at 1:12 AM, Leo Gura said:

 

Pharmacies could also offer ibogaine, which nukes all opioid addiction at the brain-receptor level. So we already have a cure for opioid addiction. It's just currently illegal.

I´m sure Ibogaine is a great chem and is honestly on my Wishlist but is not that simple. Ibogaine has been proved to reset chemical dependence/rewiring of the opioid receptors. Sure, but that doesn't mean it will solve addiction. 'Addicts' relapse all the time on drugs after their system is completely cleared up/reset of the drug. Because of course they remember the high and they want to go get high again (despite the consequences).

Although, I suspect ibogaine could have an addictional therapeutic effect in terms of healing the pain or psychological trauma that lots of opiate users try to heal through the drug . So that's another story. But I have yet to verify that. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

Sure, but that doesn't mean it will solve addiction. 'Addicts' relapse all the time on drugs after their system is completely cleared up/reset of the drug

Of course there will still be plenty of addicts. There will be addicts regardless.

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I think that issue can be solved by prohibiting any marketing of these chemicals.

This might mitigate the overall problem in terms of making it less risky, but it does not address the root issue, which I think is more a social issue. The lack of strong communities due to a transition away from healthy stage blue is something we have not yet found solutions to at all. Human beings get most of their meaning in life from communal living and orientation towards communal goals.

One of the problems is that intelligent, educated people will move out of cities and problem areas because they do not have any sense of community in the first place. This means individuals who are dysfunctional will just be left by their own, and there is no potential for communities to heal.

On a global scale this is true as well. Today, the most intelligent, talented and healthy individuals have the opportunity to leave their own countries if they grow to dysfunctional. Nobody is even motivated to change the systems if everyone is more concerned with leaving them.

 

A challenge of the 21st century I think is that people will seperate themselves into the healthy groups and dysfunctional groups. In the past, people were forced to deal with their environment, and there was a mixture of dysfunctional and functional individuals within any given environment, allowing functional individuals to help dysfunctional ones, because they had no other choice. Today, they can just move somewhere else and let the people who stay behind deal with the problem.

[Leo Gura]

@Scholar Humans have been seperating themsleves into classes since the beginning of civilization. Nothing new there.

Of course improving society overall will address the root of addiction. Although even in a great society or community there are addicts.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hello from Russia]

Living in Russia I one time meditated really good to a point of experiencing samadhi, basically some mild mystical state. I then decided to take a walk near forest near my house basking in that state, really enjoying it and taking in fully

Then what happenned is a stumbled upon a police patrol and they assumed I am a drug addict cause I was looking too content and as they said my pupils very dilluted, hense I am under some substance. They decided to take me to the police and treated me very harshly as though I am the lowest scum on the earth. They were 100% sure I am an addict and I took something and they were 100% sure I'm gonna get jailed. They were really happy about it and were slurting insults on me.

When we arrived at a police station they lead me to an interrogation room with a really agressive looking police boss guy. They locked me with him to have "a discussion". I was super confused and fearful during it all. They said you're fearful = You're 100% doing something illegal and tried to press me hard to reveal it in all details. Completely ignoring the fact that they basically kidnapped me, treated me liek shit and assumed charges. Why should I be not fucking fearful dealing with one of the most corrupt polices in the world?

Especially since we have a rich trackrecord of cops throwing up substances to people and I was very afraid they did it as well (They surrounded me from all sides when they were arresting me). When I rightfully asked (you can ask this by law) - what are my rights? The main replied - "Well, you have no rights".

Long story short, they allowed me to call my father (and almost snatched my phone out of my hands after the call was done) and he came to be some unbiased witness of their shit. Later I decided to give them my phone and they looked through all my social media apps and chats as well as gallery and stuff. They commented - wtf, you don't even have a porn on your phone, so suspicious (Why would I even have a fucking porn on my phone in the first place, what the fuck?)

After also making me go completely naked and searching all my clothing (hopefully with some random witnesses) and founding nothing they let me go and didn't even apoligize for all their shit

I don't know, man, this all is so wrong and bad. I have a PTSD of police patrols to this day from this situation. Probably will have to confront this with some psychotherapist at this point as everytime I see policemen it gives me chills

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Hello from Russia

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Scholar Humans have been seperating themsleves into classes since the beginning of civilization. Nothing new there.

Whether or not it's new doesn't change the terrible consequences of those dynamics. These dynamics are what allowed higher class individuals to watch the poor class starve to death before the poor class would have enough and kill all the rich people. I don't see how that is a trajectory that we want to be on.

 

I think this is just relativizing the problem. And it does not work because people in the past did not have nearly as much mobility as they do now. People couldn't even realistically leave their own country, they had to contend with what was there and if they wanted better life's, they would have to make the sacrifices necessary to achieve that life. And even within individual classes, people were stuck with each other locally, they had to be concerned with what their neighbours were doing, and it was in their best interest to support each other locally. This is not at all true anymore.

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

I don't know, man, this all is so wrong and bad. I have a PTSD of police patrols to this day from this situation. Probably will have to confront this with some psychotherapist at this point as everytime I see policemen it gives me chills

Of course Russian police are scary. They are all corrupt as the devil. Americans don't even know what corruption is.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura @zurew @Israfil It is imperative to recognise the grave dangers posed by addictive substances. Such drugs should not be readily accessible to the general populace. By making the acquisition of these drugs a stringent and complex process, we can ensure that only those with a determined and perhaps legitimate need have the ability to obtain them. This approach stands as a necessary measure to safeguard society from the harms of addiction.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura @zurew @Israfil It is imperative to recognise the grave dangers posed by addictive substances. Such drugs should not be readily accessible to the general populace. By making the acquisition of these drugs a stringent and complex process, we can ensure that only those with a determined and perhaps legitimate need have the ability to obtain them. This approach stands as a necessary measure to safeguard society from the harms of addiction.

That's what they said about Prohibition and weed.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Israfil]

13 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura @zurew @Israfil It is imperative to recognise the grave dangers posed by addictive substances. Such drugs should not be readily accessible to the general populace. By making the acquisition of these drugs a stringent and complex process, we can ensure that only those with a determined and perhaps legitimate need have the ability to obtain them. This approach stands as a necessary measure to safeguard society from the harms of addiction.

And then people who love money and danger sell this stuff with added shit to any poor soul that can't handle the shithole some places currently are. Some of them even see this as their gateway out of the shit they're into. And then you get gangs of people trying to rob people and sells addictive shit, otherwise they're stuck in the race and class separation they were put into the first place.

There are thousands of factors that play into addiction. The substance is far from the most important one. 

[eggopm3]

If drugs was legalized the form most people use would likely change as well since the forms used currently are often the result of prohibition in the first place. Coca tea, which is significantly less potent and harmful than powdered cocaine intended for snorting, could become a viable alternative to caffeine for many people for example.

[Yimpa]

@How to be wise I see that you smuggled in some AI-generated content into this forum discussion 

How to be AI

Edited August 22, 2023 by Yimpa

[Yimpa]

On 8/21/2023 at 2:08 PM, OBEler said:

childen at school needs to be educated on different classes of drugs. There must be subjects to 5 meo or weed or lsd and alcohol. Especially they should know what alcohol does to their bodies. Such important things needs to be learned in school. 

I was. The program is called D.A.R.E. 

We had a police officer come to “educate” us about the dangers of illicit street drugs, some being psychedelics.

@Hello from Russia I’m sorry for what you had to go through. I find that police officers here in the US tend to be more ignorant than cruel based on my few encounters with them.

On 8/21/2023 at 2:08 PM, OBEler said:

And there needs to be Harry Potter like howard schools where you learn about magic, Out of body experiences and psychedelic usage for science. We need to talk and research openly like in this forum about this stuff. 

Lucid dreaming comes close 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Yimpa

[Jodistrict]

6 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Living in Russia I one time meditated really good to a point of experiencing samadhi, basically some mild mystical state. I then decided to take a walk near forest near my house basking in that state, really enjoying it and taking in fully

Then what happenned is a stumbled upon a police patrol and they assumed I am a drug addict cause I was looking too content and as they said my pupils very dilluted, hense I am under some substance. They decided to take me to the police and treated me very harshly as though I am the lowest scum on the earth. They were 100% sure I am an addict and I took something and they were 100% sure I'm gonna get jailed. They were really happy about it and were slurting insults on me.

That brings up the issue of government corruption and drug laws being used to victimize innocent people by corrupt police.

I have been searched in Mexico several times while walking in public  by police looking for “marijuana”, even though aya, mushroom, and bufo ceremonies are done in the open.  But cannabis is illegal in Mexico.  So, if you are a gringo you become a target for a mordita or extortion. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Jodistrict

[Jodistrict]

2 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

- duplicate -

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Jodistrict

[sholomar]

The big problem with drugs like meth and heroin is the dopamine spike is far beyond anything that is naturally occurring. Once addicted it's going to be hell getting off these drugs. Do we let people do whatever they want if they aren't hurting another? It's a question for the ages. With the rise of screens more people are addicted than ever. This is where Leo's sitting in an empty room and doing nothing comes into play. It's a form of dopamine reset, to break the time wasting cycle of chasing short term dopamine hits. It will cause discomfort, because the brain craves the stimulation.

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/addiction/berman/neuro/dopamine.html

https://www.utahvalleypsychology.com/pornography-addiction-science-fact-or-science-fiction-2/

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by sholomar

[Recursoinominado]

43 minutes ago, sholomar said:

The big problem with drugs like meth and heroin is the dopamine spike is far beyond anything that is naturally occurring.

This is obvious, everyone is aware of how "good" and addicting they are.

Any good debate has to go beyond this type of argument.

45 minutes ago, sholomar said:

Do we let people do whatever they want if they aren't hurting another?

If we should learn something about this whole "war on drugs" it is that no one can stop people from using drugs.

No jail threat is enough to stop people from using it.

Even in maximum security jails, you can still find drugs to use.

The question now is:

Should we let people use garbage drugs laced with the worst kind of shit like fentanyl or should we provide them with safer drugs that are pure?

With LSD we have the NBOME category of substances that people sell like LSD but it isn't. NBOME is dangerous, can cause overdose, fry your system, and trigger psychotic episodes.

With MDMA we have all sorts of meth derivates, probably 90%+ of all "MDMA" sold and consumed are, in fact mostly METH.

Heroin and cocaine are famously impure also.

 

[Israfil]

2 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

This is obvious, everyone is aware of how "good" and addicting they are.

Any good debate has to go beyond this type of argument.

If we should learn something about this whole "war on drugs" it is that no one can stop people from using drugs.

No jail threat is enough to stop people from using it.

Even in maximum security jails, you can still find drugs to use.

The question now is:

Should we let people use garbage drugs laced with the worst kind of shit like fentanyl or should we provide them with safer drugs that are pure?

With LSD we have the NBOME category of substances that people sell like LSD but it isn't. NBOME is dangerous, can cause overdose, fry your system, and trigger psychotic episodes.

With MDMA we have all sorts of meth derivates, probably 90%+ of all "MDMA" sold and consumed are, in fact mostly METH.

Heroin and cocaine are famously impure also.

 

With the NBOME problem, it goes further. NBOH is also an analogous substance that has at least 7 variants. All of them are extremely cheap and impossible to discern without specific test kits. At least you can know that you're taking NBOH or NBOME because they have a metallic taste, unlike LSD. You never know what you're taking.

Almost every MDMA pill is laced with all kinds of stuff. You never know what you're taking.

[Leo Gura]

It's a really difficult problem.

Meth is real bad.

[Oppositionless]

I don't remember what episode it was, but Vice had an interview with someone who created a legal drug that mimicked meth but was less addictive/dangerous, and suddenly a bunch of addicts were switching to the legal drug and it saved a bunch of lives.  and then they made the new drug illegal too.

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a really difficult problem.

Meth is real bad.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Oppositionless