Interesting spiritual talk, in a martial artist skeptic perspective.

[Danioover9000]

   Imma be honest, don't like the martial arts journey channel, not the guy but his misinterpretations and the community he's a part of, but I do like the guy he's interviewing, decent BJJ teacher sharing his life experiences, seen his classes. Funny to see how they're talking about spirituality and non-duality in a funny way, while slipping in the potential cult dynamics, which is universal to all other ideologies but just so happens to all of a sudden be a fake martial arts/cult-like spirituality. Interesting to watch how an atheist/skeptic, who's a martial artist, talking about these cult like dynamics.

   Disclaimer, again, IMO this is a big red herring, yes there's dark sides to spirituality, but so do millions of ideologies out there in the world with much worse dynamics. Not to diss these, but it's a big mistake and misunderstanding that spirituality is just cult and nothing else.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Ajax]

@Danioover9000  What are your views on martial arts spirituality?

[Danioover9000]

@Ajax

10 minutes ago, Ajax said:

@Danioover9000  What are your views on martial arts spirituality?

   My views are similar to JKD, Jeet Kune Do, a little bit from Taoism, Baguazhang, and Hsing.

[Danioover9000]

@Danioover9000

18 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Imma be honest, don't like the martial arts journey channel, not the guy but his misinterpretations and the community he's a part of, but I do like the guy he's interviewing, decent BJJ teacher sharing his life experiences, seen his classes. Funny to see how they're talking about spirituality and non-duality in a funny way, while slipping in the potential cult dynamics, which is universal to all other ideologies but just so happens to all of a sudden be a fake martial arts/cult-like spirituality. Interesting to watch how an atheist/skeptic, who's a martial artist, talking about these cult like dynamics.

   Disclaimer, again, IMO this is a big red herring, yes there's dark sides to spirituality, but so do millions of ideologies out there in the world with much worse dynamics. Not to diss these, but it's a big mistake and misunderstanding that spirituality is just cult and nothing else.

   Karma has a funny effect with me. Even when I just praised this guy a bit, not the gay looking samurai on the right screw him, the old guy on the left, even when I said I liked him a bit, he damn near MADE ME SPIT! At 11:00 when they're talking about Osho and the Rajneesh community, I strongly disagree with his disingenuous framing, it's bad faith and uncharitable because Osho was a decent leader of that community, just that Osho the troll Guru, who makes fun of other Gurus and other leaders and legends BTW, he spent too much time reading and spiritual practices himself like his laughing meditation, that he obfuscated parts of his leadership role to his second lieutenant, and that crazy chick is the one that perpetrated those 'biological terrorism' acts, poisoning the salad bars and other restaurants in the Oregon country places, THAT CHICK, not Osho, is solely responsible for those terrorists acts. However, because the American  culture that time was more racist, xenophobic, and it also was the war on drugs, the authorities used that as an excuse to legally charge Osho and to disband the Rajneesh community, not just crazy chick.

   Thinking back on that event now, it kind of makes me sad. He would have been a good leader if he took his leadership role seriously. My god, that would have been a great community, if only he took it seriously and weeded out the crazies. He actually is a decent and funny Guru. Damn, missed opportunity, but ego backlash is ego backlash, on the collective level..

[Ajax]

@Danioover9000  Would you say JKD relies heavily on skepticism in that it aims to reduce techniques to its most basic and simple form? Especially its focus on combat effectiveness. The basicness of form transcends to all areas of life.  I have been contemplating this lately. I also admire the transcendence of intention in that the only goal is to strike and to intercept all counter intention. 

I do agree with you on the video in that they are not focusing on the essence of form but rather arbitrary actions that do not substantiate the actual teachings. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Ajax

[Danioover9000]

@Ajax

15 minutes ago, Ajax said:

@Danioover9000  Would you say JKD relies heavily on skepticism in that it aims to reduce techniques to its most basic and simple form? Especially its focus on combat effectiveness. The basicness of form transcends to all areas of life.  I have been contemplating this lately. I also admire the transcendence of intention in that the only goal is to strike and to intercept all counter intention. 

I do agree with you on the video in that they are not focusing on the essence of form but rather arbitrary actions that do not substantiate the actual teachings. 

    Partly agree here, yes Bruce Lee did take the best parts of martial arts he was studying, and philosophy, and made his JKD. The original intent that Bruce Lee wanted in his JKD though, was to reflect the streets, the violence, and actually fight like that, express yourself fully in that violence. The problem was when capitalism, pragmatism, and skepticism invaded into that framework, and JKD started becoming like the other business types of Dojos in America, and unfortunately because of Bruce Lee's early death, the few that survived him, took JKD and made it into something else that corrupted the original intent of JKD, that plus the many other students that then some opened their own schools and Dojos, and claimed they were affiliated with Bruce Lee for profits and credibility stealing. Of course, Dan Inosanto was a good student and philosopher and intellectual of martial arts, but he's not a violent fighter out there in the streets, defending himself violently.

   Paul Vunek is actually a really good example of doing JKD correctly, as intended. Dan Lok is a terrible example.

[Ajax]

@Danioover9000 Great assessment. 

I have noticed that many of his original students also practice a "behind closed doors policy". For instance, about 20 years ago I had the good fortune of having a private seminar with Steve Golden. He doesn't actively teach or take on students, but he does work with advanced students privately.  There isn't much available online but here is a sample that I was easily able to find. 

 He prefers to work one on one with students, teachings Bruce Lee's principles with your own moves.  Through your own techniques, you learn JKD. I think that was BL's original teaching method. Incidentally, Ed Parker had a similar approach however, the whole American Kenpo Karate, also denigrated to trash. 

Thank you for telling me about Paul Vunek, I actually didn't know about him! Awesome!

Wonderful thread, I really love your explanation about how "capitalism, pragmatism, and skepticism" infects the quality of martial arts techniques, philosophy and spirituality. 

[Danioover9000]

 It's so funny, you can talk circles all you want, appeal to functionality, rationality, atheism. I see it it's obvious, but let me unpack your loaded title:

Does SBG Put Other Martial Arts (systems) Down?

Blunt, short answer is YES, NOT JUST YOUR BUSINESS BUT YOU DO IN YOUR MIND.

Long winded answer, is because it's due to various developmental factors, psychology, your ego, your attachment to being a practicality and pragmatist guy, also a right leaning conservative espousing family values. Yes, you do put down other martial arts systems, albeit very subtly, you do slip in assumptions due to your biases. Especially the dead giveaway(I've done a thread about body language analysis, and touched on verbal, discourse, and statement analysis in that thread), The main problem is that question is close ended, only requiring a YES or NO. So immediate red flag, just talking in circles, changing the goal post and pivots and all these other rhetorical tactics, don't even need to go deep into body language analysis to determine your defensiveness or even deception, just the way you word your clip is already an embedded confession that YOU DO PUT DOWN MARTIAL ARTS SYSTEMS! So why is it so hard to just give a straight forward answer of a YES or NO, when the question only requires that type of answer in the title? Like come on:

   Will be covering this clip in the body language thread here: