Is there Salvation? If there is, what is it?

[BipolarGrowth]

@Osaid yep, clarity of perception is as much the goal as freedom from suffering because they are reliant on each other. They’re two sides of the same coin essentially. 
 

Wild metaphysical experiences can show clarity of perception eventually by breaking down the solidity of confused and ego-entangled perception. After enough wild states of consciousness, the self illusion is no longer that convincing, but the goal isn’t wild experiences. They are merely a tool for showing the true nature of things by undermining illusion. 

[Osaid]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah, As you have said before, complete clarity brings with it the disappearance of suffering, since this is confusion and attachment. 

Here is the problem, and as we have already seen. operate from memory is a mistake. we have to avoid doing it if we want to move forward. The most obvious mistake possible is to have a clarity experience with psychedelics and then conceptualize it and arrive at conceptual premises that you call "the truth". This is so basic that it shouldn't be necessary to mention it, and yet...

Yep. This is exactly what I realized after I achieved enlightenment a few days ago. Memory cannot replicate direct experience. Therefore, if you're "bringing back" insights, they will eventually become twisted and corrupted, which is why you get all these crazy solipsism threads on this forum.

I just see reaching traditional enlightenment as non-negotiable now. It's not JUST the ending of suffering, it's realizing exactly what you are 24/7, without the need for psychedelics or chemicals to induce it for you first. Not to mention, these psychedelics have their own flavours and methods for conveying their "truths", which the ego likes to twist up as well. For example, salvia might turn you into a table, which conveys a certain amount of truth and metaphysics, but of course YOU aren't actually a table. But, the unenlightened ego gets really stuck to certain details of these experiences that don't matter at all, and then it creates a bunch of stories about it.

Psychedelics are good for opening your mind and removing the materialistic veil. It's good for making you think "oh shit, maybe I don't know what reality is, maybe I don't know what I am" and then pushing you to look into spirituality. What happens a lot with psychedelics though is that the unenlightened ego will concoct a bunch of stories that it "brings back" from these experiences through memory, and then that is where things go to shit, to put it bluntly. The unenlightened ego has NOT become enlightened, and once the chemicals wear off, the psychedelic is not helping you be enlightened anymore, so the unenlightened baseline ego HAS to recontextualize the experience into a corrupted and unenlightened version of it, because the psychedelic has worn off, and it does this through the medium of memory. The ego exists in memory, so that is where it plays its cards and pulls you back in.

You need to achieve traditional enlightenment before further pursuing spirituality or psychedelics. It is a must. Or else it will lead to a lot of confusion down the line. You can't just say "I'm never gonna achieve traditional enlightenment, I'll just discover truth through psychedelics", because this is a contradiction, since lack of enlightenment means you are not aware of truth. I am not going to deny that psychedelics are a good tool for reaching enlightenment, HOWEVER, they can be a double edged sword, as it VERY susceptible to being co-opted by the ego. And, of course, once you are in baseline, you become your ego again, so this becomes a massive problem, because you cannot stop being your ego, otherwise that would be enlightenment.

Enlightenment is just the stopping of identity (as it is seen to not exist), to put it one way at least. If you do not reach enlightenment, you will CONSTANTLY be identifying with thoughts and stories (unless this is removed again through psychedelics), which is delusion. This is not something to skip or brush off, and it is not just some trivial human desire to stop suffering. It is a singular psychological phenomenon that permanently allows you to see things as they actually are.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Osaid