Advice on how to deal with difficult stage orange friends?

[Nthnl]

Hi all, hope you're all doing well. I reach out to you in hopes of some insight and further perspective on an potential issue ive been contemplating. First some basic background.

My friend, lets call him soot, is very locked in a state of stage orange. He is obsessed with the concepts of loyalty and respect though he has little idea as to what loyalty and respect actually are and what is required to cultivate them honestly. He certainly has trust issues, I know hes had a hard upbringing. But at his core, he is one of these heavy orange power focused individuals. He saw what lack of power and status could lead to, so now he finds everyone not money focused weak. Although hes not a die hard fan, but you could lump him in with those who religiously watch tate or peterson to a fault. Although I care for him and he is my friend. These attributes lead to several issues within our friend group. Though obviously blame isn't his to bare alone, his emotional inflexibility. inability to problem solve, and dead to rights ego driven idea of respect and loyalty make solving simple disputes almost impossible. All drama that has ever occured has spurred from very small starting points. Yet those miniscule occasions latch to him in a way and are never forgotten, completely unforgivable, and a sign of disrespect. I'm well aware that its his past experience leading him to be heavily gaurded, but still there must be an optimal way to approach him that im just not thinking of. 

I have two related issues.

First off, I'm currently attending university. Before noticing potential issues with this arrangement, we had all commited to rooming in a four person apartment on campus. We are still excited and optimistic but I worry about the potential tension and can't find a good way to resolve conflict with this type of person. 

Second,  he's my friend and I care for him. I want to help him be less angry, gaurded, sad, etc. I want him to thrive emotionally. I believe it's better for him and everyone else if he were to emotionally mature. 

Thank you for all your potential replies. Any and all insight on your personal experiences and pyschological knowledge would be much appriciated! Also, if anyone knows of a leo video potentially related to this issue, I'd love to look into that as well, its hard to find niche things sometimes. Thanks!

Edited August 18, 2023 by Nthnl

[integral]

23 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

First off, I'm currently attending university. Before noticing potential issues with this arrangement, we had all commited to rooming in a four person apartment on campus. We are still excited and optimistic but I worry about the potential tension and can't find a good way to resolve conflict with this type of person. 

Second,  he's my friend and I care for him. I want to help him be less angry, gaurded, sad, etc. I want him to thrive emotionally. I believe it's better for him and everyone else if he were to emotionally mature. 

Ideally you need to cut ties with him and as he gets older he will naturally mature.

If hes a ESTP then they tend to respond best to highly agreeable people who have some wisdom to add along the way. ESTP like new ideas but it has to be said with out any possible hint of a personal attack, they also only care about what is practical so the wisdom needs to be within that. Once i was boxing a friend and he was getting frustrated during the exchange from not winning, so I said "its not about winning, its about learning" and his perspective shifted and it stuck within him for life.  

Might also want to check out the book "non-violent communication". 

[Nthnl]

@integral Yes, I vaguely remember him saying word for word "I would never take advice from you." haha

I definately agree that in talking with him it has to be very apparent that it is not an attack on him. I should note that we have had minimal sucess in that we all had a sit down talk where he apologized for some things and seemed to be open to forgiveness. But it seems like a vicous cycle where he never TRUELY gets over things. Thanks for the book recommendation and your quick reply!

I do plan on "cutting ties" so to speak in that I dont plan to live with him the following semester.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Nthnl

[integral]

9 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

Yes, I vaguely remember him saying word for word "I would never take advice from you." haha

haha yes he only takes advice from people he "respects" or have proven themselves. Stage red values.

On 6/26/2020 at 4:34 PM, Leo Gura said:

Time to get some Red examples going up in here.

Try to find some healthy ones too. Red is all too easy to demonize.

List of Stage Red Values:

• Personal power, strength, might, brute force
• Displays of toughness
• Brazen courage, valor, heroism, daring
• Being the boss, being #1, winning at all costs
• Conquering one’s enemies, domination
• The thrill of conquest
• Warrior mentality, a glorious death, heroic deeds
• Competitive, crush your opponents
• Resolving disputes with ruthless force
• Winning, victory, conquest, triumph against odds
• Ambition, playing it big
• Revenge
• Respect
• Loyalty
• Decisiveness, assertiveness
• Passion, action
• Pragmatic, direct, no-nonsense
• Taking initiative & ownership, personal willpower
• Getting things done, just do it
• Unilateral control, executive power
• Glitz, ostentatious displays, grandiosity
• Wants to be bigger than life
• Status, recognition of prowess
• Machismo, pride, bragging
• Charisma, plain talk
• Intimidation, manipulation, exploitation
• Sexual conquest & exploitation
• Sex as power and vanity, sadistic sex
• Enjoying life to the fullest
• Adventure, thrill-seeking, living boldly
• Power contests, like slapping/arm-wrestling
• Breaking rules, finding loop holes
• Breaking with the pack & pushing the envelope

 

Stage Red Examples:

Trump, Saddam Hussein, Iraq, Syria, Hitler, Stalin, Liberia, Somalia, North Korea, Myanmar, Turkmenistan, Haiti, Africa, Middle East, Palestine, warlords, mafia, Tony Soprano, Al Capone, pirates, marauders, gangs, Yakuza, violent prisoners, prison culture, freedom fighters, revolutionaries, criminals, rapists, con artists, thieves, terrorists, juvenile delinquents, ancient Rome, gladiator combat, Caligula, Nero, Roman emperors, spartan, Chinese emperors, Japanese emperors, Alexander the Great, Achilies, Klingons, hackers, toxic narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths, lone shooters, Conan the Barbarians, Joe Pesci from Casino, Russian mob, toxic masculinity / Red Pill, vikings, Genghis Khan, Mongol hordes, drug addicts, gamblers, criminal underground, war criminals, massacres, torture, rape gangs, wild rock stars, Jules from Pulp Fiction, Joffery from GoT, Ramsey from GoT, Cersie from GoT, Dothraki from GoT, the Joker, cult leaders like Jim Jones & Charles Manson, David Koresh, Aztec human sacrifice, pimps, hustlers, prostitutes, sex trafficking, brothels, strippers, *** stars, violent ***, snuff films, king’s harems, absolute monarchs, feudalism, heads on pikes, Vlad the Impaler, crucifixion, cutting off body parts, cruel & unusual punishment, villains in movies, bullies, colonial exploitation, sweat shops, slavery, wild west, Terminator, Rambo, throwing objects when angry, cocaine, heroine, crack, meth users, suicide bombers, lesser Jihad, ISIS, domestic violence, MMA / UFC, boxing, Mike Tyson, Don King, Connor McGregor, bank robbers, the tyrannical boss, bribery, bling, gold teeth & chains, the hood, drive-by shootings, bloodsport, cock fighting, dog fighting, animal cruelty, sports fights, pro wrestling, movie Lord of War, Alex Jones, L Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige, 9/11, Oklahoma City bombing, some incels, some pickup, Jeffy rape van, Kanye dragon energy, rap music, heavy metal music, punk music, Mexican drug cartels, El Chapo, Grand Theft Auto game, graffiti, No Country For Old Men, Old Testament, Sith from Star Wars, Fight Club, A Clockwork Orange, Dan Pena, hunting homeless people for sport, Black Panthers, KKK, Machiavelli, women as property

ESTPs like working out, that guy has to release his emotions out in the gym to calm his mind. 

[Nthnl]

25 minutes ago, integral said:

haha yes he only takes advice from people he "respects" or have proven themselves. Stage red values.

ESTPs like working out, that guy has to release his emotions out in the gym to calm his mind. 

I somehow overlooked how much more heavily red his actions are rather than orange! Yes he certainly uses the gym for his emotional release. 

[integral]

15 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

I somehow overlooked how much more heavily red his actions are rather than orange! Yes he certainly uses the gym for his emotional release. 

Ye hes going to be expressing a mix of red, blue and orange. During his growing up phase he will make a bigger transition to blue to become more communal and he will learn that real respect comes from being a role model, having integrity, being a man of his word and helping does around him. The person he aspires to be is someone like "The Rock". A man who everyone looks up to, who is large in stature, successful, capable but also a good guy.

Also he has a inner circle mindset, you need to get into his inner circle he calls friends to be able to give advice he will listen to.  

Edited August 18, 2023 by integral

[Nthnl]

45 minutes ago, integral said:

Ye hes going to be expressing a mix of red, blue and orange. During his growing up phase he will make a bigger transition to blue to become more communal and he will learn that real respect comes from being a role model, having integrity, being a man of his word and helping does around him. The person he aspires to be is someone like "The Rock". A man who everyone looks up to, who is large in stature, successful, capable but also a good guy.

Also he has a inner circle mindset, you need to get into his inner circle he calls friends to be able to give advice he will listen to.  

@integral The inner circle part really resonates its very clear that once you slip up in his mind, you are no longer an option for input. Thanks for all your words its definately helped me be more confident in my strategy to sucessfully function within a household with him. To be fair, I've noticed signs of growth recently, and he seems like he has genuine interest in "being friends" and "solving problems". But I've been lulled into this before with him of course haha. Again for whatever reason i choose optimism till i no longer can.