Debating AI on materialism and the scientific method

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Experience is relative. the absolute is not experience, experience is something that happens, to happen it has to go from one point to another, something that goes from one point to another is in relation to reference points, therefore, it is relative. absolute is without reference points, therefore it does not move. movement is illusory, it is relative. Therefore, the experience is illusory.

and you are not alone, because being alone is relative to being accompanied. the absolute is absolute, it is not alone, nor is it one, nor two, nor love, nor intelligence, nor god, it is absolute, and that's it. It cannot be anything because if it were something it would be relative. infinity is beyond all you can say about it, you have to become it, dropping the self completely. If you are realizing the infinity, it's because you didn't drop the self. You have to be it. Subtle difference. 

It depends on your definition of experience.   By experience I mean isness.  You are adding something onto isness.   Be careful of how your mind will create stories on top of isness.  If you want to say experience is not a good word because it assumes an experiencer than just say that you prefer a better word. 

But aomething that happens is something you are adding on to what is absolutely direct.  So you can call it what you want.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

It depends on your definition of experience.   By experience I mean isness.  You are adding something onto isness.   Be careful of how your mind will create stories on top of isness.  If you want to say experience is not a good word because it assumes an experiencer than just say that you prefer a better word. 

But aomething that happens is something you are adding on to what is absolutely direct.  So you can call it what you want.

If with experience you mean to exist, I agree, existing is absolute, but the experience is what is happening. Would you call experience to be undifferentiated, without movement or change? I don't think it's the right word. But you are not alone if you become absolute because there is not you. It's obvious because "I" is something in opposition of "other" . If you become infinite, the I dissolves , and if it dissolves ,there is no one, or loneliness. If there is, is because the I is still there. The I is a creation, is relative. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

If with experience you mean to exist, I agree, existing is absolute, but the experience is what is happening. Would you call experience to be undifferentiated, without movement or change? I don't think it's the right word. But you are not alone if you become absolute because there is not you. It's obvious because "I" is something in opposition of "other" . 

This would seem correct using logic.  And this is truly the crux of the matter.  And yet ,- logic just doesn't apply here.   To be awake is to realize total Oneness.  That there truly isn't anything outside of your mind.  That all persons, places, and things are held within your mind.   But there's no you, so how can that be? Well, again, it can, because you are not you, you are God.  The one and the only.   It's just so hard for us to ever want to admit this.  The admittal of such a point would dare to nullify all that we have made real here.   And so we do not dare.  But notice that you spend a lot of time here explaining reality? If there isn't a you to explain reality then what is doing it?  The void?  My friend, this is the void.   The void isn't something objective.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, Vibes said:

@Inliytened1 What do you mean by 'we can't allow that'? As in denial?

But can I live from that consciousness? It's unimaginable because there would be no distinctions at all, and how would the dream change if it was frozen?

The end of dreaming? Death / Suicide? 

It means we build stories on top of direct experience to explain direct experience.   But if we stopped doing that then you and direct experience would become one and you would BE that which you are now creating stories to explain.   Enter religion.   Enter science.   Enter - an objective reality. And enter AI.  Enter all of it.  None of this needs to ever enter, but it does because it's not really fun for God to actually just sit with what it is.  It has to spin a whole bunch of fancy bullshit to really wet its tongue.  Otherwise, well, it has to come back to itself. There's a time for that, sure,  but the build up is what it's all about.  The suspense. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

This would seem correct using logic.  And this is truly the crux of the matter.  And yet ,- logic just doesn't apply here.   To be awake is to realize total Oneness.  That there truly isn't anything outside of your mind.  That all persons, places, and things are held within your mind.   But there's no you, so how can that be? Well, again, it can, because you are not you, you are God.  The one and the only.   It's just so hard for us to ever want to admit this.  The admittal of such a point would dare to nullify all thar we have made real here.   And so we do not dare.  But notice that you spend a lot of time here explaining reality? If there isn't a you to explain reality then what is doing it?  The void?  My friend, this is the void.   The void isn't something objective.

You confuse ego with god in my opinion. things are more complicated, because reality is infinite.  you have to drop the ego, totally. merge it with the ocean. and not once but on a daily basis, and not just on psychedelics but sober, and then you begin to understand. I, the relative self that is infinite reality but manifests as a self in opposition to what is not self, dissolves and realizes what it is: impersonal ocean of existence. This is total freedom, you will be smiling for an hour. The ocean of existence is not alone, alone it's just a relative concept, isn't it obvious?

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The ocean of existence is not alone, alone it's just a relative concept, isn't it obvious?

Alone is not a negative.   Alone is Oneness.   The reason we place a negative connotation on it is because the realization of this would destroy reality.  It would destroy your reality.  

[Breakingthewall]

37 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But notice that you spend a lot of time here explaining reality? If there isn't a you to explain reality then what is doing it?  The void?

Im not explaining the reality, What I do is try to find mental formulas that help to dissolve the mind, it's something difficult to achieve, subtle, the mind takes hold. Since I spend all day with it, even though I'm doing other things, I comment here my impressions. simple human need for communication 

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Alone is not a negative.   

I didn't say negative, I said relative

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Im not explaining the reality, What I do is try to find mental formulas that help to dissolve the mind, it's something difficult to achieve, subtle, the mind takes hold. Since I spend all day with it, even though I'm doing other things, I comment here my impressions. simple human need for communication 

Okay.  But why are you trying to dissolve the Mind?  There are only states of Mind.   Such as the one you are in now. So if you want to dissolve that state, just sit in meditation or take a psychedelic.   

 

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

I didn't say negative, I said relative

Okay- well it is not relative.  It is an Absolute.   It is no different then the Absolute of Infinity or of Nothingness, or of no self.  It is a facet of awakening.   It's just that this one will be the hardest for God to come to grip with about itself.   Because then it has to give up the idea of separation. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

There are only states of Mind.   Such as the one you are in now. So if you want to dissolve that state, just sit in meditation or take a psychedelic.   

There are only two states at the end. the finite state that we are almost always in even with psychedelics and meditation, and the infinite state that is enlightenment. spirituality is about dropping the relative mind, letting go, breaking the limits and becoming infinite. then come to this forum to comment the thing, because who else could talk about this?

Edited August 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's just that this one will be the hardest for God to come to grip with about itself

God or the reality is not someone. It's not you. You are a fiction. When you dissolve the self, just the infinite ocean remains. What you are is not the you. 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

There are only two states at the end. the finite state that we are almost always in even with psychedelics and meditation, and the infinite state that is enlightenment. spirituality is about dropping the relative mind, letting go, breaking the limits and becoming infinite. then come to this forum to comment on the play ?

Yeah , but its not really two states.   Its just the state you are in now.  Two is something you have come back and  conceptualized about what already is.  You returned from an infinite state and remembered it.  Creating a duality.  You see how tricky this is.  There are mine fields everywhere. 

 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

God or the reality is not someone. It's not you. You are a fiction. When you dissolve the self, just the infinite ocean remains. What you are is not the you. 

God is not a someone but God can think because God is Consciousness.   Just the infinite ocean is another story you are telling yourself.   

[Breakingthewall]

52 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Its just the state you are in now

We are talking in a practical sense, anyway, To say that God is alone and that he hides this fact because it is difficult for him to accept is as far from reality as possible. is to anthropoformize. reality is the absence of limits, all that loneliness is limited, none of that is real, only apparent.

In short, You are not the reality, you are just a limited fiction. Remove the you, and reality remains.  The only thing that you can say about reality is: absence of limits. You can't describe reality in positive because it's absolute, you can become absolute, but not think in it, because thinking is contrasting

Edited August 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Danioover9000]

@Mikesinfinity  Very interesting debate you had. What's your take on this video?

 

[Inliytened1]

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

We are talking in a practical sense, anyway, To say that God is alone and that he hides this fact because it is difficult for him to accept is as far from reality as possible. is to anthropoformize.

Saying God is Alone is no different then saying God is Infinite.  Yes it is anthropoformizing for God to say it is hiding this fact, but you have to remember that you began this dream as a human- and then realized you were God.   So God has a dilemma.  In human form it must filter everything through the human mind while it exists in such form.  So through the mind of the human it is very scared about being Alone.  It is Alone, but the part it doesn't like about that is the part that is filtered through the human mind.   When you had your enlightenment did you become Infinite?  Did you become conscious of this or did you just become Infinite?  Do you see where the line between you and Infinite blurs?

Edited August 20, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Danioover9000]

@Inliytened1

9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Saying God is Alone is no different then saying God is Infinite.  Yes it is anthropoformizing for God to say it is hiding this fact, but you have to remember that you began this dream as a human- and then realized you were God.   So God has a dilemma.  In human form it must filter everything through the human mind while it exists in such form.  So through the mind of the human it is very scared about being Alone.  It is Alone, but the part it doesn't like about that is the part that is filtered through the human mind.   When you had your enlightenment did you become Infinite?  Did you become conscious of this or did you just become Infinite?  Do you see where the line between you and Infinite blurs?

   Exactly, it's in a damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

[Breakingthewall]

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Saying God is Alone is no different then saying God is Infinite

I think it's different. Alone is opposite to not alone. 

 

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

When you had your enlightenment did you become Infinite? 

Just break the limits and let the reality flow. Letting go the need of grasping, because if you do that, you are automatically putting limits. Then, in some moments the self can be dropped

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

So through the mind of the human it is very scared about being Alone

Its scary because we are relative, so we don't exist in absence of another thing to be related. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think it's different. Alone is opposite to not alone. 

Infinity is opposite to finite.  So there is still duality built in.

 

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I 

Its scary because we are relative, so we don't exist in absence of another thing to be related. 

We also, or to put it into proper context, You, still exist with no other to contrast that.   This is total Oneness!   This is the Aloneness of which I speak.  Just pure Consciousness.    There exists nothing outside of what is in your direct field of consciousness now.  That's it. There isn't a billion, or a trillion, or a gazillion other experiences happening somewhere behind the scenes.  I'm sorry to break that Truth to you 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

We also, or to put it into proper context, You, still exist with no other to contrast that.   This is total Oneness!   This is the Aloneness of which I speak.

Ok agree , but it's like a misunderstanding. You can't be scared to be alone of limitless, because if the limits get broken, the you dissapears. It's like epicure said: If I'm here, death is not, if death is here, I am not. 

[Breakingthewall]

32 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is total Oneness!   

Not for me, but maybe I'm wrong, but in the absence of limits there is everything. You are not one, one is an ego projection. I'd say that God is an ego projection, for example, to say god is bored and he wanted to have a human experience is just an ego projection 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall