Here's why is impossible to be "bored" or craving artificial stimulation if you Awake

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I don't care if he has had 1000 awakenings.

@Inliytened1 Is like If I have pain in my back, and I have popped 1000 pain-relief pills in the past, and, of course ,1000 times I have not had pain.

You tell what is the purpose? I still have pain. The ideas and concepts about when I didn't have pain, do not serve to not have pain Now.

In my view, is all about the Now. Are you solved/gone, NOW?

It doesn't serve me that you were good 1000 times in the past, the past already is gone. Now we are Here and Now. What is happening now? You are thinking about trophies of awakening, which are never awakening. 

 

Wait a minute...it was YOU that was thinking about trophies of awakening was it not?   You are so distraught that awakening won't help you NOW.. so much so that you have constructed in your mind a reality in which it DOES.  That it solves boredom, and suffering.   Well - it really doesn't do that.  It awakens you to the Truth about yourself and reality - which end up being the same thing.  That in of itself can do wonders.  But the spiritual ideology that you will never again be prone to these things is just that. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Schizophonia]

I can sit and do nothing for hours.
Am I the most awaken person on the forum? 

 

[Breakingthewall]

57 minutes ago, Osaid said:

There's no need to identify with anything. Existence does not need to identify with anything to exist. You exist.

Exactly. you  drop the ego and let it fall into nothingness, without more stories. total surrender to the now, and the now opens, and reveals itself as existence, deep, now, existing. total.

it is difficult to maintain. the mind says: I have to interpret this, let's see... then existence, right? But what it does? How? and you're out. 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah but why the word truth?

What's absolutely true. What's real. What is. What is the case, has always been and will always be.

Edited August 20, 2023 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Are there enlightened people or not?

Trick question   Do you want me to say there are so that you turn it into something relative?

Deeply enlightened individuals may be able to see through the distinction of "other" as illusory and constructed, hence not real. This is key. In your experience, you haven't experienced things like brain, atom, nerve, God, except by hearsay and concept. Point is, who cares? You yourself must get it. There's no avoiding that.

Experientially speaking, others seem to exist. It's also true that what others are is an unknown to me at this point. I assume there are enlightened humans, and it appears as if we are existentially separate entities. But I don't know.

Edited August 20, 2023 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

The tragedy is that you think you have arisen to that conclusions by you own. 

Until you don't see that you have just been swallowing Leo's ideology like a thirsty camel, what can I do. You are just so sure you just got it all sort it out.

I don't place that much importance on teachers and teachings. By necessity, I investigate from scratch. You're projecting here.

Quote

The ideology is perfect because you guys logic work in such a way, that just with having some experiences, you can tell yourself you got it. You arrived. Meanwhile real work is not happening, you are victim to compulsion and low stages of awareness like any other human that hasn't pick a spiritual book on their life or mediated 1 hour.

I even I'm shocked you guys can NOT see this trap. But I guess that's the beauty of traps, they can't be seen from inside .

Well, if it's a conclusion, it is a grounded one. Are you perhaps angry because enlightenment ideals are being threatened by that assertion?

I haven't said I'm enlightened. As most people in the "spiritual" terrain, I'm talking out of my ass: from hearsay, impressions, beliefs, and in this case, from the memory of a couple glimpses.

Survival and truth are completely different pursuits. The truth is useless. And there are no requisites to awakening. The only thing you need is getting you. Luckily, you are already you. Consciousness is needed.

Edited August 20, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

Existence does not need to identify with anything to exist. You exist.

But there is more (as Leo says) . Then you start to perceive what existence is, it's flavour. You start to see, to perceive the cosmos, the movement. Then you perceive that you are the movement. You are the cosmos, so....god? You are the depth moving, dancing. 

Maybe Leo is right and he open himself to the reality in a great level, maybe he took a wrong way since long ago. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

Why are all these threads so got damn egoic? Arguing about awakening...is just ego. Its turning this into a competition and creating criteria. Look it's simple. When you fully awaken you will know. Nobody has to tell you because you know. The clue is you will have a direct realization that everything is you. Like really YOU. You will know without a shadow of doubt that everyone on the forums is YOU. When we say YOU we don't mean your individual ego self, we mean that feeling of I exist is the same feeling that everything feels. 

The grass, the birds, and people you meet. Once you discover that the feeling of existence that you feel as yourself is the SAME, the same feeling you feel when you open your eyes in the morning and become AWAKE, that same feeling is EXACTLY the same with all of existence THEN you are awake. It can first be a glimpse, but with concentration that glimpse can become a permanent state.

That's it. It is not going to change your financial life, emotional life, you are still going to be the same person. But what it will change is how you perceive life. You will never perceive it the same way. Now there are some perks that can come with it. A calmer mind, a body that feels smoother, music, food, and life itself can be felt more vibrant, more intimate. Some people have increases in range of perception. 

 

[Osaid]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe Leo is right and he open himself to the reality in a great level, maybe he took a wrong way since long ago. 

I am not gonna say whether it is wrong or right, but he is not enlightened. He is extracting insights about enlightenment, and certain specific metaphysics, from psychedelic experiences. That doesn't mean his teachings aren't valid or useful. He does a really good job of doing this while cutting out a lot of the bullshit, and he articulates the experiences very well, which is all part of his talent. I love Leo and all his work is massively useful. If he became enlightened, and THEN continued his work, that would lead to something absolutely amazing for him and the universe, probably. 

It's very interesting, because the insights that I IMMEDIATELY obtained from enlightenment are the exact same insights that Leo talks about after hundreds of trips. Like, reality is love for example, yeah, it kind of is, I can exactly see where this sentiment comes from, but I don't have to be on a psychedelic to be conscious of this. It's literally in my direct experience right now. And I just immediately became conscious of it when I got enlightened. My experience itself has been recontextualized in such a way that it has no option but to love itself.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Osaid said:

I am not gonna say whether it is wrong or right, but he is not enlightened. He is extracting insights about enlightenment, and certain specific metaphysics, from psychedelic experiences. That doesn't mean his teachings aren't valid or useful. He does a really good job of doing this while cutting out a lot of the bullshit, and he articulates the experiences very well, which is all part of his talent. I love Leo and all his work is massively useful. If he became enlightened, and THEN continued his work, that would lead to something absolutely amazing for him and the universe, probably. 

It's very interesting, because the insights that I IMMEDIATELY obtained from enlightenment are the exact same insights that Leo talks about after hundreds of trips. Like, reality is love for example, yeah, it kind of is, I can exactly see where this sentiment comes from, but I don't have to be on a psychedelic to be conscious of this. It's literally in my direct experience right now. And I just immediately became conscious of it when I got enlightened. My experience itself has been recontextualized in such a way that it has no option but to love itself.

Very lucid post. Could you explain how was the enlightenment?

[Osaid]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Very lucid post. Could you explain how was the enlightenment?

There is a lot to say, but I will just do a very brief description how it unfolded for me specifically. It is actually a very simple "shift", and I truly believe anyone can do it if they just give enough time and focus to their experience. It is a psychological shift that any human can do. Kind of like looking at an optical illusion, and switching from one perspective to the other. And then realizing that the previous perspective was useless and delusional, and then just staying in the new perspective forever.

I was in a cafe listening to an audio of someone else's contemplation. There was one line of inquiry that occured that was like "Your entire direct experience is just a FACT", and I suspect that this is what triggered it.

Experientially, for me, it was like my experience, or mind, became much more "lighter" or clearer or lucid. Kind of like some slight brain fog lifted that I never noticed before. Just for example, when I go in public, it just feels like my experience is so smooth and free, whereas before I was constantly being attacked by other people's perceptions and thoughts (which were actually just my own).

Right before that, I did have this realization, which was like "ohhh ok, so that's why it seems like my thoughts are connected to this experience." I didn't notice it at the time, it just felt like normal contemplation, but I think when I understood this insight is probably when it actually happened.

I will say, my sleep and energy levels have improved dramatically as well. I don't have to think all the time anymore. Thinking all the time seriously disrupts your sleep and energy levels. You cannot sleep properly if you cannot stop thinking. It's like putting your computer on "sleep" instead of shutting it down completely.

Basically, what I actually realized was this: Time, future, past, regrets, obligations, responsibilities, etc. <<<< These are all just thoughts. They have NOTHING to do with your experience, at all.

So what's happening when you identify with thought is:

>> pure sense perception (thought)

>> the real you decides to act as if the thought is true (anxiety, heart racing, avoidant behaviour, self-deprecation (more thoughts), etc)

Unknowingly, you are extrapolating thought into something that is not thought (physical symptoms mentioned before), which experientially makes it SEEM like thought is connected to experience, but it absolutely isn't.

What will happen in the future? How do I look? Does she like me? Am I stupid? What happens after death? When will I die? Will I ever find true love?

THESE QUESTIONS ARE ALL FACTS. 

THEY EXIST AS FACTS which point towards something that does not exist. 

By the definition of its existence, a thought describes that which does not exist (because it's just a thought), but it ALWAYS FACTUALLY EXISTS AS THOUGHT. 

There is nothing further you can interpret into your experience, because thought is just thought, not anything else which can exist in experience.

You always have direct access to everything thats happening to you, because you are you. There's nothing to interpret.

All interpretation is just thought, because in order to interpret, you have to take what you are 100% experiencing, and create something you aren't experiencing, which is impossible!

I feel like a lot of this stress/anxiety related to thoughts comes from this idea that there is some event behind the scenes that you have to predict in your mind and prepare for, but no, your entire experience is just factually laid out in front of you to see. 

THERES NOTHING TO INTERPRET IN REALITY, EVER.

Your thought about pain is never pain itself, your thought about being sleep deprived tomorrow is never sleep deprivation itself.

YOU exists as YOU. Not YOU combined with thoughts, just YOU. The entirety of experience is just you, always. Experience doesn't have to identify with anything to exist. Anytime you perceive "identification", it is ALWAYS a thought. There is no such thing as identity or identification.

A flower does not need to identify with anything. The sky does not need to identify with anything. You do not have to identify with anything. You exist. 

YOU are your entire experience. Thoughts are always just a subset of that experience, by definition. Therefore, thoughts cannot accurately point to or describe you or your experience, ever. 

The medium of "thoughts" and "identity" are WRONG. Full stop. You cannot ever reach or perceive yourself through identity or thought. You cannot think a flower, you can only perceive it. You cannot think the color red, you can only perceive it. You cannot think yourself, you can only perceive it.

Eventually, you will see that 90% of your thoughts are completely redundant, because they are describing something that doesn't exist, and so they will just fall away forever.  

I could go on forever with these different contemplations and insights, but I don't know which one might actually do it for you, but I think that is something I really need to work on and polish before I start sharing it with people. Anything could really trigger it, it just depends on what makes sense to you.

My responses in this thread point to the same thing:

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

I assume there are enlightened humans, and it appears as if we are existentially separate entities.

I do too. Alright, so if enlightened humans exist here in physical form, they presumably also have a brain, and this brain looks like something. Now, it just so happens that a part of the brain called the Default Mode Network works as a good indicator for whether a person is enlightened or not. This shouldn't be a hugely problematic issue. It's just like looking at other behaviors we think are correlated with enlightenment. For example, how enlightened you are correlates with how many Rolls Royces you have

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Why are all these threads so got damn egoic?

You think we're enlightened or something? 

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

There are.  Is there a @Carl-Richard?

Sometimes  

[Breakingthewall]

@Osaid id say that you have freed yourself from conceptual thought, from the layer of the ego that represents reality and filters it. you can rest in being without needing to hold onto the false imaginary grip of the conceptual mind, which filters everything, which with its flow creates a bubble that encapsulates you. then you live inside a capsule that isolates you. It is human madness, the price of having a mind. but once you realize that and you can remove the bubble, stop interpreting every moment for 24 hours (horrible to live like this) for me there are moments that I surrender to now, completely, I stop living in time, and the now it opens. the infinite, now, flowing, and your mind opens, like a plant, everything is real, you perceive existence now, what you are, without any interpretation, and suddenly, the absolute. the infinite emptiness, the totality of existence, the eternal smile. I talk by memory, because it's just a moment sometimes. It's the perfect joy, the nirvana, the freedom, the perfection, the true nature, so I'm all day looking, where is the lock? How to open my mind? Even in silence, it's closed, just in some moments get open.  

Edited August 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Osaid]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

id say that you have freed yourself from conceptual thought, from the layer of the ego that represents reality and filters it. you can rest in being without needing to hold onto the false imaginary grip of the conceptual mind, which filters everything, which with its flow creates a bubble that encapsulates you. then you live inside a capsule that isolates you. It is human madness, the price of having a mind. but once you realize that and you can remove the bubble, stop interpreting every moment for 24 hours (horrible to live like this) for me there are moments that I surrender to now, completely, I stop living in time, and the now it opens. the infinite, now, flowing, and your mind opens, like a plant, everything is real, you perceive existence now, what you are, without any interpretation, and suddenly, the absolute. the infinite emptiness, the totality of existence, the eternal smile. I talk by memory, because it's just a moment sometimes. It's the perfect joy, the nirvana, the freedom, the perfection, so I'm all day looking, where is the lock? How to open my mind? Even in silence, it's closed, just in some moments get open.  

Those moments are probably completely valid, and they are likely a glimpse into what you can have 24/7, which would be enlightenment. You can induce it through meditation or certain peaceful moments. But I'm guessing what is happening is that certain thought patterns are triggering you and forcing you out of that state. If you meditate, your thoughts might become peaceful, but then how are you gonna react to those thoughts when you're not meditating?

When you're enlightened, you're just permanently stuck in meditation. There is no oscillation between a meditative experience and a non-meditative experience anymore. It's just meditation forever.

There is just a single insight/recontextualization about the nature of thoughts that will permanently prevent you from being attached to them ever again. That is enlightenment. You might have glimpses of enlightenment, as you describe, but enlightenment is just being there 24/7, without having to invoke some spiritual technique first.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Osaid

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Osaid said:

and they are likely a glimpse into what you can have 24/7, which would be enlightenment.

I don't think so. You can't be in that state, you would go down the street drooling. I'm talking about opening and stopping the experience and manifesting the infinite and being the infinite, everything, the source, the pure reality, your true nature. The Revelation. that's enlightenment in my opinion. But who knows, I'm talking by memory, so that's ego. 

 

[Osaid]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't think so. You can't be in that state, you would go down the street drooling. I'm talking about opening and stopping the experience and manifesting the infinite and being the infinite, everything, the source, the pure reality, your true nature. The Revelation. that's enlightenment in my opinion. But who knows, I'm talking by memory, so that's ego. 

Ok, forget enlightenment then. You can keep your definition of enlightenment if you want. The definition does not matter, what I am pointing to does.

I am talking about a psychological switch which will completely remove your negative emotions and perception of time forever, which is what I am literally experiencing right now. And I am claiming that this is enlightenment, not anything else. This same exact phenomenon is what the Buddha, Ralston, Krishnamurti, Eckhart Tolle, etc. are all referring to, and what has been referred to across time for centuries.
 

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Osaid said:

am talking about a psychological switch which will completely remove your negative emotions and perception of time forever, which is what I am literally experiencing right now. And I am claiming that this is enlightenment, not anything else.

I experience that state 50% of time, just  started with a few moments and is becoming more widespread and common. I was a different person a month ago. I realize that there was suffering in mind 24/7. How I could bear that shit? . Now I can go into the flow, be directly more and more easily, but there is more. the experience can be broken and the door opened. that's the unthinkable, your true nature. 

Don't you have the feeling that there is more, that something is hidden?

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Osaid said:

am talking about a psychological switch which will completely remove your negative emotions and perception of time forever, which is what I am literally experiencing right now. And I am claiming that this is enlightenment, not anything else.

I experience that state 50% of time, just  started with a few moments and is becoming more widespread and common. I was a different person a month ago. I realize that there was suffering in mind 24/7. How I could bear that shit? . Now I can go into the flow, be directly more and more easily, but there is more. the experience can be broken and the door opened. that's the unthinkable, your true nature. But it's not easy. Yesterday for example I vaped 20 mg of 5 meo two times trying to open the door. I realized that you can't force it.  Can happen sober, with a bit of LSD, on maybe never more again.

Don't you have the feeling that there is more, that something is hidden?

Edited August 21, 2023 by Breakingthewall