What are the best probiotics after antibiotic treatment?

[Loving Radiance]

Currently I am taking 200 mg of Doxycyclin for Lyme disease after having been bit by a tick 4 weeks ago. I have stomach ache on a daily basis and can't wait to finish this.

Do you have suggestions which probiotics are best to take after I finished this treatment?

 

@Michael569 @undeather

[Michael569]

@Loving Radiance I like Optibac, they have a good variety and a decent amount of their own research. Not sure if they are available in your country but if not any high-CFU with a good variety would do. In the end, most probiotics are fairly similar. Your gut can heal but make sure you get rid of that Lyme's first it can be a pain in the ass - that would be a main priority before doing any form of damage control. 

You can enrich your diet in probiotics (e.g. starting your day with a hefty dose of kefir)  and prebiotic fibre foods to already mitigate this damage while you're taking those antibiotics. I wouldn't add too many supplements in the mix; focus on foods predominantly. 

That may get you started. Undeather will probably have much better advice being on the frontline of medical therapy. 

[Twega]

Hands Down!!

 

https://seed.com/daily-synbiotic

@Michael569 I think you'll like this.

 

[undeather]

4 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

Currently I am taking 200 mg of Doxycyclin for Lyme disease after having been bit by a tick 4 weeks ago. I have stomach ache on a daily basis and can't wait to finish this.

Do you have suggestions which probiotics are best to take after I finished this treatment?

 

@Michael569 @undeather

You got diarrhea as well or just the pain?
Here is the thing: a specific traetment with some probiotic drug is not really necessary in most cases. Your microbiome will regain balance in 4-8 weeks and you will be fine after that. Eat some healthy food, focus on decent fiber intake and add some fermented products (like Kefir or Sauerkraut) to support your gut.

However, if you really want to take some supplement here is my advice: Before ordering anything online, go to your local pharmacy and ask for their probiotic products. Most probiotics sold in pharmacies are pretty decent quality, the only thing you should research is the amout of "colony-forming units" (CFU) per dosage. You can ask the pharmacist or simply google it. For an effective dose, it should be more than 5 billion units/day. 

If you want to order online, do your reserach first. There is so much garbage out there which will do more harm than good.

Edited August 7, 2023 by undeather

[Twega]

 

[Michael569]

@Twega i love their website, branding & marketing - very American ? as in for the product, looks alright but a bit too high on the price end..i can get higher strength 150 doses for lower price over here. 

Once you open the individual categories, they aren't that different from other products that Optibac or Symprove are selling.

Lot of claims that would be hard to justify but that's US, in UK that wouldn't fly

They know how to make it looks aesthetically pleasing tho, that's for sure

[undeather]

1 hour ago, Twega said:

 

Pretty good summary.

Some caveats: 
- The study mentioned (published in the Cell Journal) is a tiny and poorly controlled study. We need more reserach (as he said).

- As I mentioned before, most people's microbiome recovers pretty well in 4-8 weeks. It tends to be more problematic in individuals with an underlying gut-condition or antiobitic induced diarrhea. That's why I asked OP if he is experiencing diarrhea as well. Probiotics might be more useful in those cases and there is some decent evidence to suppot that.

- What's completely left out (but waspropably discussed in the full podcast) are the potential side effects of probiotic use. There are case reports and some higher tier evidence that show probiotics can actually fuck up your microbiome if you are not careful. 

- At the end of the clip, he talks about C.difficile infections after antibiotic use. This happens because some antibiotics specifically kill strains that keep C.diff under control. The antibiotic OP takes (doxycycline) is actually associated with a lower risk for C-diff infection than other antibiotics. 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by undeather

[Twega]

6 hours ago, Michael569 said:

@Twega i love their website, branding & marketing - very American ? as in for the product, looks alright but a bit too high on the price end..i can get higher strength 150 doses for lower price over here. 

Once you open the individual categories, they aren't that different from other products that Optibac or Symprove are selling.

Lot of claims that would be hard to justify but that's US, in UK that wouldn't fly

They know how to make it looks aesthetically pleasing tho, that's for sure

@Michael569 When it comes to probiotics products it has to be designed to make it beyond the G.I track, or else it will be destroyed by HCl acid. What makes this special is that it is designed to do so and also it includes prebiotics in addition to probiotics. They have a lot of scientists on the scientific advisory board.

 

I recommended this to my friends and multiple people noticed benefits (acne, gut issues, etc).

 

It seems the most legit to me.

[Loving Radiance]

@Michael569 @Twega @undeather  Thank you all for your help!

I don't have diarrhea, so I will make sure to consume lots of fermented products.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Loving Radiance

[Nilsi]

On 7.8.2023 at 8:03 PM, undeather said:

You got diarrhea as well or just the pain?
Here is the thing: a specific traetment with some probiotic drug is not really necessary in most cases. Your microbiome will regain balance in 4-8 weeks and you will be fine after that. Eat some healthy food, focus on decent fiber intake and add some fermented products (like Kefir or Sauerkraut) to support your gut.

However, if you really want to take some supplement here is my advice: Before ordering anything online, go to your local pharmacy and ask for their probiotic products. Most probiotics sold in pharmacies are pretty decent quality, the only thing you should research is the amout of "colony-forming units" (CFU) per dosage. You can ask the pharmacist or simply google it. For an effective dose, it should be more than 5 billion units/day. 

If you want to order online, do your reserach first. There is so much garbage out there which will do more harm than good.

What do you think about Schmachtenberger‘s new “Qualia Synbiotic“ product?

I don’t have any underlying condition, but I heard many places that probiotics and fermented foods are great for gut brain health.

Would you recommend taking this stuff preemptively?

Edited August 9, 2023 by Nilsi

[undeather]

Quote

What do you think about Schmachtenberger‘s new “Qualia Synbiotic“ product?

Well, Daniel and I are friends - so I am kinda biased towards praising neurohacker-products.
I think they are doing a decent job with any of their stacks. The quality control is over to the top! (which is good!). The price is a major downside!

 

Quote

 

I don’t have any underlying condition, but I heard many places that probiotics and fermented foods are great for gut brain health.

Would you recommend taking this stuff preemptively?

 

I would not recommend taking a probiotic product preemptively, no. The benefit is not clear and there could be some major downsides in the long run (there are data points linking long term probiotic use to all kinds of terrible outcomes). I am also not convinced by the quality control of most products.

That said, there is something to be said about cycling. This is complete bro-science but it might be worth a try to get on a probiotic product for a month four times a year (so basically 1 month every quarterly period) and see if you feel any noticeable changes. 

Besides that, I would just focus on a healthy diet to keep your microbiome happy - which is proven to work and has many additional benefits. 

 

[Nilsi]

20 minutes ago, undeather said:

Well, Daniel and I are friends - so I am kinda biased towards praising neurohacker-products.
I think they are doing a decent job with any of their stacks. The quality control is over to the top! (which is good!). The price is a major downside!

 

I would not recommend taking a probiotic product preemptively, no. The benefit is not clear and there could be some major downsides in the long run (there are data points linking long term probiotic use to all kinds of terrible outcomes). I am also not convinced by the quality control of most products.

That said, there is something to be said about cycling. This is complete bro-science but it might be worth a try to get on a probiotic product for a month four times a year (so basically 1 month every quarterly period) and see if you feel any noticeable changes. 

Besides that, I would just focus on a healthy diet to keep your microbiome happy - which is proven to work and has many additional benefits. 

 

Interesting. I’ll just do the cycling thingy. Thanks a lot.

I also love Kefir and consume it daily. Does that have to go as well?

[undeather]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

Interesting. I’ll just do the cycling thingy. Thanks a lot.

I also love Kefir and consume it daily. Does that have to go as well?

No. Kefir is fucking awesome! Propably one of the healthiest animal products out there if consumed in moderation!

I am talking about specific supplementation with probiotics - like the one from neurohacker or the ones sold in pharmacies (Omnibiotic for example). Those are pretty unnecessary or might even cause havoc in the long run. They have their use cases, like I mentioned above - but I would't take them preemptively. Sorry, should have made that clear!

Probiotics in food like Kefir or Sauerkraut are fine and usually regarded as very healthy. Just don't overinduldge. 
A decent fiber intake is also important for a healthy microbiome. 

When you do your cycle, it's propably better to stop drinking so much Kefir for that month! Just in case

[Nilsi]

9 hours ago, undeather said:

No. Kefir is fucking awesome! Propably one of the healthiest animal products out there if consumed in moderation!

I am talking about specific supplementation with probiotics - like the one from neurohacker or the ones sold in pharmacies (Omnibiotic for example). Those are pretty unnecessary or might even cause havoc in the long run. They have their use cases, like I mentioned above - but I would't take them preemptively. Sorry, should have made that clear!

Probiotics in food like Kefir or Sauerkraut are fine and usually regarded as very healthy. Just don't overinduldge. 
A decent fiber intake is also important for a healthy microbiome. 

When you do your cycle, it's propably better to stop drinking so much Kefir for that month! Just in case

Great, thanks!