Huge struggle with honesty

[Buck Edwards]

I have struggled a lot with honesty. I suffered too much because of it. I keep reminding myself that authenticity and honesty can go a long way in improving myself. But my fear of people's judgement comes first and blocks my honesty. Then I go back into a vicious cycle of manipulation, lies and deception where I'm deceptive to those who are close to me. This causes a rift in my relationships both professionally and personally. 

I have tried to break this cycle but I'm unsuccessful. 

 

[Hojo]

No one outside of you thinks about anything. Your fear of judgement comes from yourself. Just be you and accept it. If you judge yourself for doing things that will reflect on reality and its a trap. I have been in it and am trying to get out. 

I figured out it comes from being a baby and being punished for doing things you didn't know was wrong. This happens so many times you develop a habit of blaming yourself for everything and then you get secretive but reality knows all your secret already.

Its best to get into a habit of watching the mind and figuring out when the negative thoughts come and to understand that they aren't true thats not you. It might have been you on another frame of existence but not anymore 

There are literally no thoughts outside your mind. It might seem like it but its just you making it up. The goal is to return to a peaceful mind by figuring this out. No one has ever thought about you or your action only what you make up they are thinking

Edited August 9, 2023 by Hojo

[cjoseph90]

great post! this is something i also struggle with, ego backlash. Even though i try to be more conscious of it, the sneaky ego defense mechanism comes in and completly takes over. a great reminder to myself that its something i need to be aware of, instead of being on autopilot most of the time.

[Buck Edwards]

@cjoseph90 thank you 

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, cjoseph90 said:

great post! this is something i also struggle with, ego backlash. Even though i try to be more conscious of it, the sneaky ego defense mechanism comes in and completly takes over. a great reminder to myself that its something i need to be aware of, instead of being on autopilot most of the time.

What do you mean by being on autopilot? And how do you feel when you’re on autopilot? Autopilot is an interesting term, because in your context it sounds like being stuck, but autopilot can also imply reality moving fluidly without you needing to control anything.

[cjoseph90]

@Yimpa by autopilot, yes i meant being stuck, unconscious. Maybe telling a small White lie, then sometimes catching myself a few seconds later questioning myself of why i lied. I know i want to live with more integrity, but the opinión and judgement of others overtakes this. 

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, cjoseph90 said:

by autopilot, yes i meant being stuck, unconscious. Maybe telling a small White lie, then sometimes catching myself a few seconds later questioning myself of why i lied. I know i want to live with more integrity, but the opinión and judgement of others overtakes this. 

To live with more integrity is to allow the opinion and judgement of others (and you own!) be fully expressed, while not compulsively reacting to it by getting rid of the uncomfortable feelings or avoiding them. I feel like this is the trap people fall into when spiritual teachers preach about “remaining neutral”.

You need to learn how to handle discomfort in a healthy way as opposed to attempting to remain neutral about it.

Perhaps emotional integrity is what you’re lacking right now, but it can be developed. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/childhood-emotional-neglect/202202/6-signs-relationship-lacks-emotional-integrity

[cjoseph90]

3 hours ago, Yimpa said:

To live with more integrity is to allow the opinion and judgement of others (and you own!) be fully expressed, while not compulsively reacting to it by getting rid of the uncomfortable feelings or avoiding them. I feel like this is the trap people fall into when spiritual teachers preach about “remaining neutral”.

You need to learn how to handle discomfort in a healthy way as opposed to attempting to remain neutral about it.

Perhaps emotional integrity is what you’re lacking right now, but it can be developed. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/childhood-emotional-neglect/202202/6-signs-relationship-lacks-emotional-integrity

thank you for your input. will look into it! yes its practising ´´handling the discomfort´´ 

[Buck Edwards]

1 hour ago, Sidra khan said:

At least you value honesty I like your super honest posts ♥️✌️?

Awesome. Thanks.. 

[caspex]

You know all the moral stuff like helping others, being kind, being considerate and compassionate, donating, etc.? Do some of those things out of the goodness of your heart. Like start helping others more often, go out of your way to help out homeless people, donate to charity. These are very physical tasks so you can just go and do them without thinking much. Keep doing such things, all the while comparing yourself to the most compassionate humans in history, noting how selfish you are in comparison. (Do this for humbleness.)

What this will do is build character and integrity in you. At some point, you would literally feel as if you are an immovable mountain. With such strength and courage within you, being honest would be child's play.
You're scared about being honest because internally you are not strong enough, you are not brave enough.

The solution is to build character. Which also means slowly leaving all the petty shit you do everyday.

Honesty is just one of the good values to have. But these values don't come individually, they always come in a bundle because they are all interdependent on each other.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Swarnim

[ivankiss]

To live a lie is to not live at all. 

A lie is groundless. It's mist. It just does not exist. Whenever you step into a lie, you step out of yourself. Out of existence - pretty much.

It took a lie so big and so nasty, that left me completely devastated, for me to realize the importance of choosing the truth all the time - to the best of my abilities. A white lie might seem harmless and cute, yes, but what if a lie swallows you whole, and you forget there is anything other than it? What if a lie masks and poisons your entire being? Would that be innocent? It's the same substance. Both are lies. Both do not exist.

I'm not trying to say you should never ever tell not even the whitest, not even the smallest lie... but wouldn't it be cool if you never ever did? Try to imagine it...

Of course, if you wanna function and thrive as a member of society, you will inevitably tell a lie. And that's all cool. That's just where we are at currently, I guess. But be careful. Hell is real and it's inside you. And guess what? Nothing but lies there. Lies and fire.

 

[Schizophonia]

Can you give an example? It all depends on the context.

[Buck Edwards]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

To live a lie is to not live at all. 

A lie is groundless. It's mist. It just does not exist. Whenever you step into a lie, you step out of yourself. Out of existence - pretty much.

It took a lie so big and so nasty, that left me completely devastated, for me to realize the importance of choosing the truth all the time - to the best of my abilities. A white lie might seem harmless and cute, yes, but what if a lie swallows you whole, and you forget there is anything other than it? What if a lie masks and poisons your entire being? Would that be innocent? It's the same substance. Both are lies. Both do not exist.

I'm not trying to say you should never ever tell not even the whitest, not even the smallest lie... but wouldn't it be cool if you never ever did? Try to imagine it...

Of course, if you wanna function and thrive as a member of society, you will inevitably tell a lie. And that's all cool. That's just where we are at currently, I guess. But be careful. Hell is real and it's inside you. And guess what? Nothing but lies there. Lies and fire.

 

I have a question but before that I would like to get into a brief explanation of why I tend to lie. 

I think it had a lot to do with the upbringing. When I was a kid, my parents would punish me over petty stuff. Remind me constantly of my mistakes. It was incredibly stressful. It ingrained into my mind the "fear of authority." it made me realize that if I ever tell the truth to an authority, it would always result in punishment no matter the fact that I said the truth. Obviously survival came first. So instinctively my mind created the connection between lies and survival and it became apparent that survival was possible only if I lied. I think how my parents handled truth-lies situations were instrumental as well as poorly guided and it resulted in a near permanent change in the way I saw the world. They should have rewarded my honesty each time I was truthful yet they punished me. 

As an adult, it has become rather impossible to get rid of this wiring and I still suffer deep existential fears whenever I think of saying the truth or enforcing honesty. I don't blame them yet I think society should have the prerogative of respecting honesty. 

If you choose to tell the truth to a police officer and it came at the cost of punishment, most likely you're only gonna regret speaking the truth. That's what I mean.

So the question I have for you is — how should I deal with the fear of judgement and punishment and how to successfully relinquish the fear in order to be able to be truthful to a decent degree? (I know at this point, 100% honesty is simply impossible. Yet I can try to be honest to a decent degree if I bypass the barrier of fear.) 

[Buck Edwards]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Can you give an example? It all depends on the context.

Not at this point. Maybe some day when I think I can say it. 

[Buck Edwards]

10 hours ago, Swarnim said:

You know all the moral stuff like helping others, being kind, being considerate and compassionate, donating, etc.? Do some of those things out of the goodness of your heart. Like start helping others more often, go out of your way to help out homeless people, donate to charity. These are very physical tasks so you can just go and do them without thinking much. Keep doing such things, all the while comparing yourself to the most compassionate humans in history, noting how selfish you are in comparison. (Do this for humbleness.)

What this will do is build character and integrity in you. At some point, you would literally feel as if you are an immovable mountain. With such strength and courage within you, being honest would be child's play.
You're scared about being honest because internally you are not strong enough, you are not brave enough.

The solution is to build character. Which also means slowly leaving all the petty shit you do everyday.

Honesty is just one of the good values to have. But these values don't come individually, they always come in a bundle because they are all interdependent on each other.

That's a good explanation yet from a pragmatic standpoint, being compassionate to people and being honest and humble is not as easy as it seems to be. 

In fact in the past, being compassionate to people resulted into huge financial and personal costs to me. I felt like a fool. 

There's a heaven and earth difference between wanting to be the best person for the world versus actually going about doing it. The field work when it comes to such things might leave you with a sour taste in the mouth. It can be incredibly draining, frustrating to be this "saint" of a person yet not be completely ripped off and damaged by people who take a mile when you give them an inch. 

[UnbornTao]

Certainly, the struggle you're speaking of seems to be universal, as this principle is independent from self-survival and serves the truth; those might conflict. 

Honesty is about telling the truth -- that may or may not improve yourself. Being honest doesn't mean telling everything that comes to mind, as that serves your self-agenda, not what's true.

Always start with yourself. Be honest about your experience. That's where the principle operates from. Take care that your thinking, communication, acting, etc. are an accurate representation of your experience. What's true in your experience is estimated by you. Then, ask yourself: What might be behind that? Is that all the truth? Can more be discovered? Something considered true might at some point be recognized as phony. So continuously reach for deeper levels of honesty.

In a social context, care is advised. You may think that I'm incompetent and at the same time you don't want to hurt my feelings either. When asked about this matter, however, you'd need to express what you think, or refuse the answer.

Edited August 25, 2023 by UnbornTao

[caspex]

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

That's a good explanation yet from a pragmatic standpoint, being compassionate to people and being honest and humble is not as easy as it seems to be. 

In fact in the past, being compassionate to people resulted into huge financial and personal costs to me. I felt like a fool. 

There's a heaven and earth difference between wanting to be the best person for the world versus actually going about doing it. The field work when it comes to such things might leave you with a sour taste in the mouth. It can be incredibly draining, frustrating to be this "saint" of a person yet not be completely ripped off and damaged by people who take a mile when you give them an inch. 

Actually the field work is quite rewarding. After all, it feels good to be good. What you said seems more of a mechanical process. I tend to stay within my limits in what I can tolerate when it comes to things like this. I am very vary of exploitation.

The reason I asked you to develop other aspects of integrity is because having a strong character gives you confidence and courage into who you are and what your life truly is. Surely what I said is not the best way to go about it, but the solution is having a strong character, however may you achieve it.

It may seem unrelated to your problem but feeling that safety and certainty in your heart actually makes you so much more honest. I have experienced it many times. I see this as the only permanent solution and speculating about what lies are and why we lie is a waste of time. This is because it's such a nuanced topic that it's way better to simply develop a strong character.

Deeds make the person. 'Person' not in a societal sense, but in a self-esteem sense. If your deeds are such that you believe on ALL levels of your being that your deeds are 'pure', then you have unparalleled confidence akin to a mountain.
Because how we view ourselves is based on our deeds. And whether we like it or not, we all know deep down how pure the deeds we did were.

This is why I think one should start purifying their deeds if one wants strength of character.

[Yimpa]

6 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I realized that my honesty and authenticity put me in lots of trouble during my life and make my survival more difficult. I'm still pretty traumatized by the judgements I received during my life time.

But I also cannot see another option that would make me as much happy as expressing myself authentically. 

I just want to be free to live the way I want.

I feel that. I mentioned a traumatic event to my therapist yesterday. It had to do with something my uncle did to me as a child. 

20 years later, that same uncle has debilitating cancer and is going to die any second now. 

Really puts things into perspective, huh?

Edited August 12, 2023 by Yimpa

[Ajax]

@Buck Edwards

Honesty: Wouldn’t you rather have a simple policy than a complicated one?

 Your current perspective is not a workable approach. This results in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Either way you are damned.

Truth hides from no one. So, when you introduce lies, you are hiding your amazing qualities, and limiting your abilities and getting weaker and weaker, and becoming useless and failing in life. You are willingly committing spiritual and mental suicide. Why? Because someone says a bunch of words, that you attach hurtful meanings?

Don’t look to the past. Let the past pass. Do you know what the mind is? It is simply a diary. A record of everything that you lost. Nothing more, it is designed to limit you, to inhibit you, to incapacitate you, to paralyze you. To destroy you. The past is all composed of lies, death… nonexistence. Your incredibly powerful consciousness recreates the energy(pictures) of the past and creates a perpetual hell for you. That is what hell is, you know. The past. You then bring it to shape your present and future. Your future is damnation.

What is the antidote? Mental toughness. What is mental toughness? The ability to handle the energy of the past, the voices that tell you to stop, the voices of doubt, fear, regret, failure. The voices that tell you can’t succeed. The voices that make excuses and justifications. Fighting through the sickness, the disease, the discomforts that come your way.  Mental toughness is the solution. You do that by making constant improvements in your life. It is by validating your improvements and making it your life mission to keep improving, no matter what. Massive action is the key here. It is the gradual realization and development of your near unlimited potential. A good way to start is with your fitness goals. If you are not improving, you are sliding down into the abyss. SD orange is right about one thing. Achievements is the grease of life; it loosens the friction and make life worth living.

First you want to achieve the status of winner, and you want to be able to win and lose with the same level of enthusiasm. Have the mentality that you can't lose, because losing is giving up and you are determined to never give up. When your purpose is strong, you are strong, and you care much less about what people think... what most people think is full of shit anyway.  

Sorry for the pep talk. I usually don’t bother with the motivational stuff. I leave the motivational stuff to people like Tony Robbins or the like. It’s your life. You are source. Use your life as you choose. I am moving on from this topic.

P.S. As for your police example. Know your rights. Study the constitution/Bill of Rights. Or your countries law. You generally are not obligated to speak to the police in the interest of being able to defend yourself in the court of law, fair trial and not incriminate yourself. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Ajax

[Razard86]

On 8/9/2023 at 2:10 PM, Hojo said:

No one outside of you thinks about anything. Your fear of judgement comes from yourself. Just be you and accept it. If you judge yourself for doing things that will reflect on reality and its a trap. I have been in it and am trying to get out. 

I figured out it comes from being a baby and being punished for doing things you didn't know was wrong. This happens so many times you develop a habit of blaming yourself for everything and then you get secretive but reality knows all your secret already.

Its best to get into a habit of watching the mind and figuring out when the negative thoughts come and to understand that they aren't true thats not you. It might have been you on another frame of existence but not anymore 

There are literally no thoughts outside your mind. It might seem like it but its just you making it up. The goal is to return to a peaceful mind by figuring this out. No one has ever thought about you or your action only what you make up they are thinking

This^^^^ Reality never judges you, all judgement comes from the individualized ego. Reality always loves you, its really funny when you discover that the only one that beats you up.....is yourself. It's so well hidden too.