I finally figured out the secret to 'how to be secure as a man'.

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

This is all manosphere dogma. That's all this is. You have no actual experience talking to women face to face or relating to them. You have cherrypicked online stories which you've woven into a victim narrative.

Show me where in this thread I have quoted any redpill/manosphere sources. 

I am quoting what the 'civilized', 'spiritually ascended' world says about men. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

Show me where in this thread I have quoted any redpill/manosphere sources. 

You didn't get these narratives from direct interactions with live women. You got it from consuming a bunch of low-tier social media trash content.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Leo Gura

[mr_engineer]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You didn't get these narratives from direct interactions with live women.

I was falsely accused when I was 14 years old by a girl I approached for 'looking at her the wrong way'. 

The mansplaining-thing is also a very real occurrence. 

A lot of 'spiritually aware' women go off the rails when it comes to having David Deida-like expectations. A girl I was talking to stopped trusting me because I couldn't 'be present with her' the way the great David Deida says a 'superior man' should be. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Buck Edwards]

Your posts always have a red pillish tinge to it. 

It's always about warring with something. 

Why can't things be normal? 

 

[mr_engineer]

@Buck Edwards

2 hours ago, TheCloud said:

Your emotional needs, including loneliness, are your own to meet.  What you're trying to accomplish using women is your issue.  It's not that women can help other men with their loneliness, but they can't help you;  it's that no one can really help you against your own emotions.  Sure, you can put off dealing with your loneliness if you find a woman to distract you, but if your loneliness is deep and abiding, it will creep back in no matter what she does for you.  In fact, it will come back worse than ever.  Then you're in a situation where you blame her for what she won't (can't) help you with.

 

I know it sounds like crappy advice, telling a person who's already lonely that they are in it alone.  That's just a hurdle anyone and everyone has to mount in order to actualize themselves.  It's what you have to overcome to become a fountain of abundance, rather than a black hole of need.

If this is your idea of 'normal', then no, things can't be 'normal'. This is a horribly limiting narrative that men say to each other, that 'the world is a shitty, narcissistic place that only cares about what you offer to it, the fact that you're lonely is your problem'. I know that this is not true! I have had amazing connections with women who are very supportive. 

@Leo Gura This is what other people on your forum are saying. And you're telling me that I'm consuming redpill content. Unbelievable. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

@Buck Edwards

If this is your idea of 'normal', then no, things can't be 'normal'. This is a horribly limiting narrative that men say to each other, that 'the world is a shitty, narcissistic place that only cares about what you offer to it, the fact that you're lonely is your problem'. I know that this is not true! I have had amazing connections with women who are very supportive. 

It seems you generate your difficulty. 

 

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Buck Edwards said:

It seems you generate your difficulty. 

 

A lot of times, what 'seems' isn't what's true. 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I was falsely accused when I was 14 years old by a girl I approached for 'looking at her the wrong way'. 

So what???

Of course you will have random negative interactions with some humans throughout your life! You cannot carry that trash around with you for 20 years! Just look at what you are doing.

Yes, some girls behave badly. Some men behave badly. People make mistakea. That is society. 95% of people behave well and are friendly. Focus on that.

You are engaged in a blame game. This is not going to help you grow. Just interact with girls expecting the best and enjoying yourself, without needing them to be a certain way. It's like you need, need, need them to like you, or treat you well, or give you things, or to be fair to you. Drop all that and just have fun socializing.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Leo Gura

[mr_engineer]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, some girls behave badly. 

Okay. At least, you're admitting to that. You're not a simp like the others. 

What you have to understand is that when this happens and everyone sides with her, you become very jaded with the world. You start to believe that all woke men are simps for blindly supporting feminism, you start to believe that feminism is evil and out to get men and that approaching girls is a crime. And, the reality is that in a hypothetical world where every man is a simp, yes, they will criminalize approaching women for other men, cuz they want those women for themselves! 

And, what also happens is that the actual solution for your 'approach-anxiety' is not to 'just go do it', like what the other great PUAs say. You have to look at why you were attracted to this girl to begin with, you have to rectify that and you have to not approach those kinds of girls in the future. You have to approach more sparingly, actually. And when you see PUAs approach willy-nilly, you start to judge the PUAs for being shallow womanizers. 

And, the David Deida book comes across as something that is very detached from the harsh realities of dating. It comes across as spiritual bypassing and that there's a danger of getting a massive God-complex from it and starting a sex-cult/New-Age polyamorous harem. 

And, top all of that with the media shitshow and how the 1% co-opts feminism to lower corporate salaries. And you have a whole world that hates on you right there. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Buck Edwards]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

Okay. At least, you're admitting to that. You're not a simp like the others. 

What you have to understand is that when this happens and everyone sides with her, you become very jaded with the world. You start to believe that all woke men are simps for blindly supporting feminism, you start to believe that feminism is evil and out to get men and that approaching girls is a crime. And, the reality is that in a world where every man is a simp, yes, they will criminalize approaching women for other men, cuz they want those women for themselves! 

And, what also happens is that the actual solution for your 'approach-anxiety' is not to 'just go do it', like what the other great PUAs say. You have to look at why you were attracted to this girl to begin with, you have to rectify that and you have to not approach those kinds of girls in the future. You have to approach more sparingly, actually. And when you see PUAs approach willy-nilly, you start to judge the PUAs for being shallow womanizers. 

And, the David Deida book comes across as something that is very detached from the harsh realities of dating. It comes across as spiritual bypassing and that there's a danger of getting a massive God-complex from it and starting a sex-cult/New-Age polyamorous harem. 

And, top all of that with the media shitshow and how the 1% co-opts feminism to lower corporate salaries. And you have a whole world that hates on you right there. 

You don't have to be a simp to like women. 

[mr_engineer]

2 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

You don't have to be a simp to like women. 

The fact that you're 'guilty until proven innocent' when a woman accuses you, shows you that the world is chock-full of simps. We have to weed those out, we have to call out their shit while we can. 

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

The fact that you're 'guilty until proven innocent' when a woman accuses you, shows you that the world is chock-full of simps. We have to weed those out, we have to call out their shit while we can. 

Where do you see this happen? Did you spend time in jail? 

I don't understand where your justifications come from? 

Who's in jail here? Or is someone spending time in jail in your mind? 

You're doing what is often called in psychology - catastrophizing. 

[mr_engineer]

2 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Where do you see this happen? Did you spend time in jail? 

I don't understand where your justifications come from? 

Who's in jail here? Or is someone spending time in jail in your mind? 

You're doing what is often called in psychology - catastrophizing. 

I pled guilty in school to minimize consequences. That was my Plan B when they insisted that I'm guilty. 

Somehow, because I was actually innocent, I was able to keep this situation from getting out of the school and into my home. But, the fact that I had to plead guilty, was a big red-flag for the way feminism works, for sure. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by mr_engineer

[TheCloud]

@mr_engineer If I've come across as being unwilling to listen to reason, that would be my mistake.  I do acknowledge that you have some insights I think are keen and worth developing on.  If I've said something inflammatory or in an inflammatory way, beyond conveying my opinion and experience, I hope that you will highlight that for me.  I would like to convey a willingness to learn from you in a mutually constructive discussion.

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

I pled guilty in school to minimize consequences. That was my Plan B when they insisted that I'm guilty. 

Are you really taking one situation in your life to describe the entire worldview? 

Honestly this is the most skewed thing you could do. 

Situations can be wrong, people can be biased and such events can happen at least once in a lifetime. But much of the world is fairly positive. 

One unfair event situation does not provide you a proper picture of the entire world. 

This is incredibly neurotic. You have generated your own suffering through a pipe hole. Stop being attached to it and explore the world. You'll see different people. Not everyone is bad or out to get you.

Seriously this is some deep seated victim mentality you're clinging to, to keep believing your rationale and keep peddling it, like an imaginary gender war where if you keep doing it, you're winning something, you're perpetuating your own stereotypes and adding fuel to your egoic fires incinerating inside. You're looking for an imaginary victory that will keep luding you. 

Your solution is to be out of it and cope healthily. 

You are suffering major trauma but not putting effort to distance yourself from it. You are feeding your own trauma in this imaginary war. 

This is a downward spiral that is taking you to bitterness and rumination. 

[mr_engineer]

I reiterate, it's not the women that are the problem. I understand that it was that one girl and that I can change things about my attachment-style and go for better women. 

It's the fact that other men are enabling dysfunctionalities in women in today's world. The simping, the moralization, the debating against traumatized individuals, the fighting, the invalidation of men's issues, the invalidation of emotional realities. Do you realize how truly empowering it would be to women, if we included them in this discussion?! They would be able to resolve this just like that. But, because men have not had these kinds of discussions historically, we just suck at figuring this out, collectively. 

[mr_engineer]

5 minutes ago, TheCloud said:

@mr_engineer If I've come across as being unwilling to listen to reason, that would be my mistake.  I do acknowledge that you have some insights I think are keen and worth developing on.  If I've said something inflammatory or in an inflammatory way, beyond conveying my opinion and experience, I hope that you will highlight that for me.  I would like to convey a willingness to learn from you in a mutually constructive discussion.

Please do more research on what loneliness is. I urge you to question your ideas on what it is. Peace. 

[mr_engineer]

10 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Are you really taking one situation in your life to describe the entire worldview? 

Honestly this is the most skewed thing you could do. 

Situations can be wrong, people can be biased and such events can happen at least once in a lifetime. But much of the world is fairly positive. 

One unfair event situation does not provide you a proper picture of the entire world. 

This is incredibly neurotic. You have generated your own suffering through a pipe hole. Stop being attached to it and explore the world. You'll see different people. Not everyone is bad or out to get you.

You would have said all of this even if I'd said 'she didn't just falsely accuse me, she also tried to kill me with a serrated knife. In fact, I have stab-wounds that I can show you'. 

Please spare the hate. You don't know what I've been through. 

11 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Seriously this is some deep seated victim mentality you're clinging to, to keep believing your rationale and keep peddling it, like an imaginary gender war where if you keep doing it, you're winning something, you're perpetuating your own stereotypes and adding fuel to your egoic fires incinerating inside. You're looking for an imaginary victory that will keep luding you. 

In a world that hates you, the ability to keep your sanity is a very real victory. That's what I'm sharing with you in this thread. 

12 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Your solution is to be out of it and cope healthily. 

You are suffering major trauma but not putting effort to distance yourself from it. You are feeding your own trauma in this imaginary war. 

This is a downward spiral that is taking you to bitterness and rumination. 

You can only distance yourself from something that you've learned your lesson from. Or else, the pattern repeats. 

 

[Buck Edwards]

9 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I reiterate, it's not the women that are the problem. I understand that it was that one girl and that I can change things about my attachment-style and go for better women. 

One situation should not influence your outlook. 

9 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

It's the fact that other men are enabling dysfunctionalities in women in today's world.

This is your imagination. I never saw it. 

9 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

The simping, the moralization, the debating against traumatized individuals, the fighting,

Simping is a product of low self esteem, not a social issue. 

9 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

the invalidation of men's issues, the invalidation of emotional realities.

At this rate, you're invalidating yourself. I sense a disempowering victim mentality attitude in you that reinforces inner trauma. Do inner child work. You're a wounded child at this point. Work on your issues instead of endless blames and battles. 

9 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Do you realize how truly empowering it would be to women, if we included them in this discussion?! They would be able to resolve this just like that. But, because men have not had these kinds of discussions historically, we just suck at figuring this out, collectively. 

True empowerment comes from within. Society doesn't give it to you. Society can only afford you basic survival and security. Society is not your parent. 

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Buck Edwards said:

One situation should not influence your outlook. 

Dude, 9/11 influenced the outlook of the entirety of USA. It's one thing to say that it shouldn't happen, it's another thing to admit to the reality that it does happen. 

2 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

This is your imagination. I never saw it. 

This is how you enable the dysfunctionality, then. By not seeing how other men enable it. 

2 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Simping is a product of low self esteem, not a social issue. 

Why do false-accusations come to pass, then?! 

3 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

At this rate, you're invalidating yourself. I sense a disempowering victim mentality attitude in you that reinforces inner trauma. Do inner child work. You're a wounded child at this point. Work on your issues instead of endless blames and battles. 

Oh, I'm validating myself just fine. In the face of all of you invalidating me. This is why the deflection-tactic works so well!! 

4 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

True empowerment comes from within. Society doesn't give it to you. Society can only afford you basic survival and security. Society is not your parent. 

Say that to an 1800s slave.