Is there a difference between "non duality" solipsism and philosophical solipsism

[framu]

I was discussing with a friend of mine that have been taking a bachelor in philosophy. The topic was about solipsism and I told him about my non-dual experiences and how I had many direct experiences of this concept. He was very skeptical to solipsism overall and was quibbling on what I told him, and he said that if I believed in solipsism, then I also had to believe that he or any other people/beings are not conscious and that I was just projecting this on to them. What I answered was that when I have experienced solipsism, it´s not that I think other people are unconscious but rather there is no distinctions between us. For example when I was speaking to a friend on psychedelics it felt like I was just having a conversation with my-self and I was totally alone in the universe.

Is there a difference or has one of us misunderstood the concept?

[Hojo]

The problem is your friend dosent know what metaphysical is its a common thing for philosophers to just skip over that and go straight to philosophy so they can start dunking on people with facts and logic. They don't want to actually know they want to flaunt their intelligence.

Bachelor's dosent mean anything and it dosent mean you are smart clearly if he hasn't even thought about the metaphysical implications of philosophy. They can quote the fuck out of old white people but don't actually do any searching themselves.

The difference is one thinks he's a physical being the other thinks he's metaphysical being. Without experiencing metaphysical he wouldnt have any idea of where to look. 

And its totally possible that it could be solipsim and others have conciousness seperate from yours.

Like imagine if there was an infinitely intelligent fungus under the soil and it started all of life on earth. Every being has a peice of fungus in them that records their life And when you die you fall down into the earth and return to the highly intelligent fungus and you realize that this fungus is fueling life for everything on the planet. But not only this planet every single planet in the universe was overrun by this highly intelligent fungus. Could two seperate conciousness exist and it be the solipsism simultaneously in that case?

Try the diglet approach. Two diglets pop up out of the ground in different locations. You think they are seperate but you pull one out of the ground and you see they are attached to eachother and are only one diglet. Now 50 diglets pop their heads out of the ground and you think there are 50 you pull one out and all 50 come out with it. Now 1 billion diglets pop their head out of the ground you pull 1 and all 1 billion diglets come with it.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Hojo

[VictorB02]

It's all just words until you Awaken and clearly see what those words are pointing to, and clearly see how, one mind could interpret THAT Consciousness as "solipsism", and another persons mind could interpret THAT Consciousness as "non-duality." IMO, It's just a different interpretation of the same thing: Consciousness, which of course, isn't a word, or a philosophy, or a non-dual philosophy. Thats why trying to figure these things out is often a hamster wheel of confusion. You just can't get there, by using words. You gotta use Consciousness. There is no other way.

Edited August 4, 2023 by VictorB02

[Razard86]

Solipsism is one aspect of reality. It's also absolutely true. Absolute Solipsism says there is only one self. Alone= All One.

The other half of reality is the all is relatively different. So it's both the same and different at the same time. When talking about Spirituality if you do not accept paradox you will not make any progress. All logic is limitation, paradox is the lack of limits. Paradox is unreality, reality is the lack of paradox. What we call Reality with a capital R fuses these two aspects. Most of humanity is still asleep in lowercase reality. Lowercase reality is the pain, physical emotional world of survival, unreality is the mystical, uncausal, unbound spontaneous world. Once you fully awaken to this other side you are now aware you are in a dream. 

[VeganAwake]

There can no doubt seem to be all kinds of differences within apparent reality, non-duality attempts to point out that these so-called differences are ultimately illusory. (There is nothing separate in which could be different) 

It just isn't something recognized by the individual.....it's recognized when the individual dies!

♥ 

[framu]

It's not that I think that philosophers have some kind of fantastic insights, I feel like a lot of them are just cultivating their own ego. But from what my friend said, was that the professor in his class had emphasized that this was a central part of the theory. But I did a quick google search and looked up solipsism on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism), where there seems to be a distinction between different thoughts of school. 

 

Has solipsism as a concept first been derived from purely theoretical though or has it been derived from direct experience?

[Vibroverse]

25 minutes ago, framu said:

It's not that I think that philosophers have some kind of fantastic insights, I feel like a lot of them are just cultivating their own ego. But from what my friend said, was that the professor in his class had emphasized that this was a central part of the theory. But I did a quick google search and looked up solipsism on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism), where there seems to be a distinction between different thoughts of school. 

 

Has solipsism as a concept first been derived from purely theoretical though or has it been derived from direct experience?

Well, how to know where that concept has been derived, it can be dated back as far as it gets. I mean, if you look at the concept in an etymological way, it is a combination of solo and ipse, and those terms have been used in latin, thousands of years ago. 

You know, language, in my opinion, is a conventional thing. There is no such thing as what a word "actually" means. That term solipsism gets its meaning from the users of that term. It might mean something else in this forum, and another thing on, say, askphilosophy on reddit. 

But in general western academic philosophical conveniences, solipsism is usually used in a way where it means you as the personal mind are the only mind and only being that exists, and we, as other minds, are not actually conscious. The term that often is used to describe what you are trying to mean is monistic idealism, or terms like universal consciousness, as philosophers like bernardo kastrup use it to mean. 

 

[De Sade]

Non - Dual Solipsism >>> Non - Duality >>> Dual Solipsism >>> Duality

 

[Nilsi]

On 10.8.2023 at 2:00 PM, framu said:

Has solipsism as a concept first been derived from purely theoretical though or has it been derived from direct experience?

I think it became „popular“ in the wake of the enlightenment (the new rationalist revolution at the tail end of the dark ages).

Descartes started this trend (and arguably the entire era of the enlightenment) with his famous „cogito ergo sum“ („I think therefore I am“), claiming that all we can really know is that we think and that this is the basis for all other knowledge (which is still a flawed idea, since even that is just an assumption - nonetheless a step in the right direction, considering the previous millennium of people taking scripture as absolute indisputable truth).

Cartesians (his groupies) took this idea to it’s „logical“ conclusion and claimed that we can only ever know our own existence, since all other cogitos (subjects) are inaccessible to our own intellect (- it’s not hard to see why such a worldview would be brutally isolating and bleak).

That‘s where Kant and the tradition of German Idealism stepped in to save the subject from it‘s alienation and imprisonment and differentiated the transcendental subject (I-I) from the ego subject (I). Finally the subject (I) could form genuine relationships with other subjects again and was freed from it‘s „egoic solipsism“ (for lack of a better word; the kind of solipsism people are still bitching and moaning about on this forum) 

Something like that.