How should I change?

[trenton]

I'm confused about the following situation.

My sisters were talking behind my cousin's back. I told my cousin about it because I felt he deserved to know. My cousin is grateful I told him, but my sister lashed out at me. She felt that I was going out my way just to hurt her. She was vengeful because she thinks I told the truth just to hurt her, therefore she told me how loving and caring dad was for people other than me. My cousin is now pissed at my sisters and refuses to talk to them.

My sisters and grandma think I need to apologize, but I don't know for what. Is this not minding my own business or is it okay to tell your friend that someone is talking behind his back? I told my sister I think this is moral relativism, but she interpreted as I think my point of view is just the truth and she is wrong. I don't think my family will understand my point of view, hence the emotional support feels hollow.

so far my older sister is mad at me for not being sorry. My younger sister thinks I'm a liar because of my confused apology. My grandma thinks that this isn't about truth, it's about doing the right thing which is to stay silent if saying something makes it worse. My point of view is that we are all full shit, but pointing this out tears our illusions apart. in my case I'm biased against illusions which I see a lot of. I am now tempted to become quieter and say even less. This would be shameful if I was just starting to open up only to realize that my point of view doesn't matter because it won't be understood.

Should I be sorry? If so, what for?

[trenton]

How am I supposed to rely on family for emotional support? I want someone who understands, but I feel disconnected. Do I have to somehow undo what I learned from actualized.org? Is that the problem? Or is the problem autism and the struggle to understand how neurotypicals think?

[Roy]

If you feel he deserved to know what they were talking about to protect him and spare him suffering you did the right thing. Apologize for nothing and don't back down. Integrity doesn't fear shame and ridicule.

[PlayOnWords]

I think you did the right thing, like the man @Roy says.

But bear in mind for the future that women generally have an unspoken keep-this-between-us rule. Of course they break it all the time but usually without the subject of the talk finding out. So they're pissed off that you broke this tacit rule and now they look like bitches.

I just caution you to bear it in mind next time to save you unnecessary headache. Maybe there's another approach to take. But yeah, if it was something your cousin deserved to know then he needed to be told.

[TheCloud]

What your sisters say about your cousin behind his back is a matter between them and him.  You interfering without a plan is what created the current situation.  It's not necessarily that you're wrong, but rather that you're naive.  It's generally not your job to raise the consciousness level of a relationship that isn't your own, and it's generally understood that what is said behind someone's back is kept behind their back.  That's the default.

 

If you refuse to entertain that, then you'd best make it clear that you are allergic to gossip and will leak like a sieve.  If you don't make that clear, then you just come across as an unreliable snitch.  Some of your relationships will take a hit;  gossip is ridiculously common, and not just among women.  Even so, it may be an admirable stance to take.  Gossip reliably lowers the quality of peoples' relationships.

[trenton]

On 8/5/2023 at 1:56 AM, TheCloud said:

What your sisters say about your cousin behind his back is a matter between them and him.  You interfering without a plan is what created the current situation.  It's not necessarily that you're wrong, but rather that you're naive.  It's generally not your job to raise the consciousness level of a relationship that isn't your own, and it's generally understood that what is said behind someone's back is kept behind their back.  That's the default.

@TheCloud

This is the answer I was looking for. Do you have any tips for where I should go from here?

I had a plan, but you are giving me ideas for a better plan. Thank you.

I have a history of being naive about things like this. I once believed that somehow mom and dad would get back together.

[TheCloud]

3 hours ago, trenton said:

@TheCloud

This is the answer I was looking for. Do you have any tips for where I should go from here?

I had a plan, but you are giving me ideas for a better plan. Thank you.

I have a history of being naive about things like this. I once believed that somehow mom and dad would get back together.

One piece of advice I have that will always apply is;  always put people ahead of your ideologies.  It's great if you have a vision of right and wrong that you want to live by, but not everyone can or wants to understand that vision.  That vision is something for you to enforce on yourself, not on others.

 

In this case, you took what your sisters thought was private and made it public.  You didn't consult your sisters first, and give them a chance to choose to come clean.  You tried to be honest, which is virtuous, but you denied the opportunity of honesty to your sisters.  I presume you did this because it was easy to tell your cousin the truth, but hard to get your sisters to tell your cousin the truth.  Probably so hard that you didn't even consider it.

 

Our instincts can trick us that way, turning us unawares from what's right to what's easy.  If you need something to apologize for, I think that would be it.  I don't think it would violate your ideals to admit you should have talked to your sisters first.

[trenton]

@TheCloud thank you very much for this input. I will test what you told me and inform you of the results.

I didn't consider talking to my sisters first. My instincts do mess with my evaluation for the worse. A similar thing happened when I didn't tell my mother about my father's crimes.

I have been struggling against my instincts my entire life. This is partially due to autism. People think I'm acting with ill intent, but really I lack social experience. I am learning a lot from this situation.

[TheCloud]

42 minutes ago, trenton said:

@TheCloud thank you very much for this input. I will test what you told me and inform you of the results.

I didn't consider talking to my sisters first. My instincts do mess with my evaluation for the worse. A similar thing happened when I didn't tell my mother about my father's crimes.

I have been struggling against my instincts my entire life. This is partially due to autism. People think I'm acting with ill intent, but really I lack social experience. I am learning a lot from this situation.

This kind of situation can be largely attributed to the lack of consciousness in the people involved;  in a more actualized environment, it would be obvious for you to talk to your sisters, and for your sisters to talk to your cousin.  It's only because everyone is half-asleep that things got like this.  It's actually good for something shocking but ultimately benign like this to shake things up.  Anyone who goes back to sleep after being shaken like this is depriving themselves.

[trenton]

@TheCloud I'm sorry. I tried to be the bigger person and do the right thing but it did not work.

[trenton]

Bad news

I did everything in my power to do the right thing. My sisters are actively sabotaging my efforts to make amends. Fundamentally, they do not want amends. They want to guilt trip me and me feel like shit. They don't care about making the situation better.

1. My sisters say I need to take responsibility. 

2. My sisters say there is nothing I can do.

3. My sisters ask me to apologize. 

4. My sisters say apologizing isn't good enough.

5. My sisters want me to rebuild trust with them even though they broke my trust a long time ago.

6. My sisters are calling me the hypocrite and assuming I am acting in bad faith or trying by to hurt them.

7. My sisters are vengeful and they are saying harmful lies to me about my father and cousin. 

8. My sisters are trying to guilt trip me and blame the entire situation on me.

9. My sisters acuse me of being against women saying harmful truths while they are lying.

10. They are twisting my motives at every turn.

I know my sisters want nothing more than to guilt trip me and to make me feel like shit. Unfortunately for them, it isn't working. I have nothing to be ashamed of. I did everything I could to help and they are sabotaging me.

I don't feel bad. I don't feel sorry. They can fuck off.

How should I deal with this sabotage?

[trenton]

Good news

My cousin passed his test with flying colors thanks to my help. I studied with him and gave a motivational speech.

My sisters are trying to guilt trip me and make me feel like shit. It is not working. I don't feel guilty. I don't feel sorry. I am doing everything in my power to be good and they tried to sabotage me. And they fucking failed. 

They can fuck off if they want me to rebuild trust.

[trenton]

The lesson for me at the moment is that not everybody wants amends.

This is why I am naive. I was altruistic and trying to do the right thing. It seems so natural to me that it is hard to fathom that people would act like this.

My sister has no interest in improving the situation. She asks for amends she doesn't want because she wants me to feel bad.

I am typing a paper to share with my mother. Wish me luck. I am dealing with people who have no interest in peace and getting along.

[Schizophonia]

What did they say about your cousin?

[trenton]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

What did they say about your cousin?

@Schizophonia I didn't actually tell my cousin that much. I said that my sisters were upset with his behavior at the festival. I included that they felt he was not doing his school work fast enough.

That's all I told my cousin. That is what spawned this entire mess when my sisters found out what I said.

My sisters actually said way more about my cousin. They assumed that I told my cousin everything. They assumed that I twisted their words. They are being complete bitches. They want to pin everything on me.

My cousin is mad at my sisters because of how cruel they are being to me. 

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

What did they say about your cousin?

Off topic, but Is this a more recent pic of you, you look different. Had to do a double take. 

[Juan]

  I don’t know how old are your sisters but as a adult, let’s keep this shit straight ok?!  I have no time for drama or skeleton in the closet. If I saw a family member talking shit about another fam, I’ll call them out in the spot!  If what they said is not true of course but even if it was true, I would told them to try to understand better your cousin, we are all dealing with our traumas to a degree, let’s be more compassionate. ???

Also a note about forgiveness, even if I were right, I don’t mind said sorry if needed but the truth still stands. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Juan

[TheCloud]

14 hours ago, trenton said:

@TheCloud I'm sorry. I tried to be the bigger person and do the right thing but it did not work.

Failure is part of the deal when resolving differences with other people.  Did you think it was easy to change someone's mind?  Succeeding every time is an impossible standard to maintain.  Give yourself some leeway.

 

8 hours ago, trenton said:

The lesson for me at the moment is that not everybody wants amends.

This is why I am naive. I was altruistic and trying to do the right thing. It seems so natural to me that it is hard to fathom that people would act like this.

My sister has no interest in improving the situation. She asks for amends she doesn't want because she wants me to feel bad.

I am typing a paper to share with my mother. Wish me luck. I am dealing with people who have no interest in peace and getting along.

Do try to avoid absolute declarative statements.  The lesson you're learning, that not everybody wants amends, sounds like a worthy one.  But telling yourself that you're dealing with people who have NO interest in peace could be taking it too far.  The situation is probably more complex than that.  It could be that they have no understanding of peace, rather than no interest.  Maybe they feel safer when they're on the offensive and don't dare let there be peace.  Maybe they learned bad habits from someone who took care of them.  Putting a simple label on the situation and dismissing it is a regressive act that will hinder your competence in understanding the situations you find yourself in.

 

That said, your current internal situation actually might be fairly simple;  your feelings are hurt.  You reached out, and instead of finding good faith, you found bad.  Now that pain is transforming to anger and fury, but at the beginning, it's just pain.  If it were me, I'd have to get over the humiliation of having been sincerely hurt by such simple ignorance (bear in mind that humiliation is not an emotion, it's a judgement of a situation being humiliating.  The base word of humiliation is humility.).

 

It's difficult to admit pain when it means admitting to being the loser in an exchange with someone whose ability you don't respect.  If you're anything like me, then that's something you have to do going forward, is admit weakness.  Admit to having failed and been hurt by a low-consciousness opponent.  It's something to get used to now, because you will always have a chance of failure when it comes to changing peoples' minds.  It's not an issue you can solve just by being wise or experienced.

[trenton]

@TheCloud I did not think it would be easy to change people's minds. I know the kind of person I am dealing with when it comes to my older sister.

I texted my younger sister first. I might be able to get through to her. I am not holding out hope that my older sister will want to understand me.

Currently, I can think of no better message than to leave me alone or to fuck off next time she starts harassing me and verbally abusing me over this situation. She fails to win my sympathy or make me feel sorry.

I guess if I want to put it nicely I will tell my older sister that I have no hope of communicating hurt and anger because that is how she wants me to feel anyway. Once again she is harassing me for amends she doesn't want.

Sorry if I sound kind of mean. I know being mean won't help either. I'm just at a loss for communicating with my older sister as I typically am. She refuses to get help for her anger management issues because she thinks therapy is useless and takes it out on me. She has a victim complex and constantly frames me as the abuser.

Many if the things i say will be taken in bad faith, twisted, and misinterpreted. She only wants me to bend over backwards for her while claiming to want a trusting relationship. She destroyed my trust a long time ago.

My relationship with my older sister is a separate issue, but it is overlapping with this issue.

[trenton]

@TheCloud I admit that "they have no interest in peace" is taking it too far.

I am still frustrated because I am dealing with bad faith and vengeful motives as they try to guilt trip me. I don't know how to approach my sisters when I go back home.