Metaphysical solipsism, folks. Metaphysical.

[Someone here]

Just now, ivankiss said:

@Someone here I don't think I can be any clearer. Consciousness. That is what I absolutely am. Even though there is no real 'I' in the Absolute.

'Ivan' is a bundle of thoughts, feelings, perceptions - if you're curious about that. My identity is a psychological construct - if you will. It is, ultimately, delusion. But another way to look at it is, it's God's favourite character to play in his favourite movie of all time. The play and all of its participants are respected as unique expressions of the One, true nature.

 

I agree  90% .You are not the character created by the mind which is reading this message now. The question was raised by the mind.. and now in form of me  this answer is seen the  mind.

I said I agree that you = consciousness.  But you are contradicting your own definition by saying ivan has nothing to do with consciousness. 

I mean you aren't some puffy buffy cloud of mystical consciousness floating around in empty space lol. Get real and in touch with your body .

Everything which you see as happening is seen by consciousness .. and the" I" which is seeing this who is seeming to posses this consciousness is also consciousness. 

When  consciousness subsides.. everything subsides as well. 

That's my opinion after all . Make with it however you want 

[ivankiss]

@Someone here I am creating a separation between the Absolute and the relative to explain a point of view. Hence the apparent contradiction. But actually, there is none.

'Ivan' is a thought, which is consciousness, yes. 'Mind' is also a thought. 'Body' as well. You can feel your body, but what is that? It's just a feeling and a thought. No actually bodies anywhere to be found. It's just a perceived idea accompanied by a feeling.

You can be super grounded and live an ordinary everyday life while simultaneously seeing through 'the illusion' and abiding as pure consciousness. Not saying I'm there all the time, but I am very often.

And yes, consciousness is indeed myst, nothingness, nowhere, 'floating around in empty space'. There is nothing above, bellow or beyond it. Not even nothing.

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

I am creating a separation between the Absolute and the relative to explain a point of view. Hence the apparent contradiction. But actually, there is none .

Curious how would you define "relative ". The Absolute is All inclusive. It includes the relative within it . So you can't "really " separate the two.  Just like trying to separate The fetus and the umbilical cord. 

7 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Ivan' is a thought, which is consciousness, yes. 'Mind' is also a thought. 'Body' as well. You can feel your body, but what is that? It's just a feeling and a thought. No actually bodies anywhere to be found. It's just a perceived idea accompanied by a feeling.

I disagree. Body is more than a thought . I don't think you can knock on wood and call it a thought . Anything physical is not a thought. The label itself is a thought indeed ..but the which the label points to isn't a thought .

9 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

You can be super grounded and live an ordinary everyday life while simultaneously seeing through 'the illusion' and abiding as pure consciousness. Not saying I'm there all the time, but I am very often.

And yes, consciousness is indeed myst, nothingness, nowhere, 'floating around in empty space'. There is nothing above, bellow or beyond it. Not even nothing.

Great ?. 

 

[ivankiss]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Curious how would you define "relative ". The Absolute is All inclusive. It includes the relative within it . So you can't "really " separate the two.  Just like trying to separate The fetus and the umbilical cord. 

Relative = two or more. Absolute = only one.

Of course there is no actual separation. Again, just painting a picture. The separation is imaginary. 

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I disagree. Body is more than a thought . I don't think you can knock on wood and call it a thought . Anything physical is not a thought. The label itself is a thought indeed ..but the which the label points to isn't a thought .

 

You have not dived deep enough. Or you're not paying attention close enough. When you touch your body there is a feeling. When you knock on wood there is feeling. And an idea that you're touching your body or knocking on wood.

Your entire body is just a feeling which you label 'body'. You can perceive an object and label it 'body', but again, be careful, pay attention. That is just perception. Just an idea. Just a feeling. Which is all consciousness ultimately. No actual bodies anywhere. And nothing physical about any of this at all.

Edited August 4, 2023 by ivankiss

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Relative = two or more. Absolute = only one.

Of course there is no actual separation. Again, just painting a picture. The separation is imaginary. 

You have not dived deep enough. Or you're not paying attention close enough. When you touch your body there is a feeling. When you knock on wood there is feeling. And an idea that you're touching your body or knocking on wood.

Your entire body is just a feeling which you label 'body'. You can perceive an object and label it 'body', but again, be careful, pay attention. That is just perception. Just an idea. Just a feeling. Which is all consciousness ultimately. No actual bodies anywhere. And nothing physical about any of this at all.

This whole' no self ' business.. . The entire Buddhist doctrine that teaches no-self could be easily debunked by simply saying "I'm this body right here. This organism that breaths and eats and sleeps..etc

are you going to say body is a thought and whatnot? Sorry but that is just utter nonsense. I'm really not  baby-sitting anyone or here. I'm a hardcore Truth seeker. I identify as that. And I ask you to respect this. Body is an object that you have actual sensual direct experience of. I'm sorry I need to point such obvious things. 

Relative means it's not true from all possible POVs. You are using language. Your words are subject to relative falsehood. If you want to never be wrong just stop using language. Silence is never wrong. What you say is not absolutely true. Otherwise we can't be disagreeing about it right now if it's absolute.  "there is no you" is relative. It's not the end-all be-all God-given golden Truth.  It all depends on what do you mean by you.  We could define me as the body.. Or As an ego.or As all of existence.

[ivankiss]

@Someone here Cool dude, as you see it fit. I was just trying to help you see through some limitations. But it's not like I care too much about what you believe, how conscious you are or whatever.

There is only ever thought, feeling and perception in direct experience. And that's not Buddhist or no-self bullshit or whatever other kind of bullshit. It's as simple and as obvious as it gets. You think, you feel and you perceive. There is nothing more to direct experience.

'Doing, eating, pissing, shitting, fucking, living organisms'... those are all just ideas accompanied by feelings.

Good luck seeking.

Edited August 4, 2023 by ivankiss

[Someone here]

@ivankiss no worries.  Sorry if I offended you.  I got a lil "worked up ".

thanks for the interesting conversation. 

Good luck! 

[Leo Gura]

Calling it metaphysical is a redundancy.

Solipsism has always been the metaphysical claim that all that exists is your mind.

The day you find something outside your mind, you let us know.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[ivankiss]

@Leo Gura Mind is a thought. Outside of consciousness, yes. Not mind.

If you do not emphasize that it's metaphysical, it is likely that a seeker will fall into the trap of believing their 'egoic self' and their 'egoic mind' is the only thing in existence. Which is major delusion.

Edited August 4, 2023 by ivankiss

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Leo Gura Mind is a thought. Outside of consciousness, yes. Not mind.

Mind is everything you see.

Quote

If you do not emphasize that it's metaphysical, it is likely that a seeker will fall into the trap of believing their 'egoic self' and their 'egoic mind' is the only thing in existence. Which is major delusion.

Everything you see is yourself. And that's what reality is. You are reality. And there is no reality without you. Which is why you're so selfish to begin with.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[ivankiss]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mind is everything you see.

Nope, it's consciousness.

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Everything you see is yourself. And that's what reality is. You are reality. And there is no reality without you. Which is why you're so selfish to begin with.

I do not disagree with that. I'm just saying, calling it 'solipsism' is misleading and dangerous. If you ask me, that word should only be mentioned as a trap on the path.

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

I'm just saying, calling it 'solipsism' is misleading and dangerous. If you ask me, that word should only be mentioned as a trap on the path.

Makes me wonder if you've actually ever Awoken.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura I have not awoken, but so many people here on this forum get lost in medical common term called "solipsism" (look at someonehere) . If you find another term that is less confuse it would be better. 

I hope there is another word for this truth, because solipsism is so strong associated with ego. How would Buddhist describe it? 

[ivankiss]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Makes me wonder if you've actually ever Awoken.

Wokeness is precisely why I can easily see through beliefs such as solipsism.

30 minutes ago, OBEler said:

I hope there is another word for this truth, because solipsism is so strong associated with ego. 

There are many, many other suitable words. Oneness, Unity, Singularity, etc.

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura I have not awoken, but so many people here on this forum get lost in medical common term called "solipsism" (look at someonehere) . If you find another term that is less confuse it would be better. 

I hope there is another word for this truth, because solipsism is so strong associated with ego. How would Buddhist describe it? 

God and ego are one. Think about it. What would separate the ego from God?  There is no existence without some reference point or ego. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[OBEler]

@r0ckyreed Yeah but my ego did not invented the iPhone. God did and I can experience gods invention. 

[ivankiss]

If you really wanna awaken, instead of listening to deluded gurus, you should listen to Meshuggah, every day, religiously. 

In fact, here's a new standard: You ARE NOT AWAKE unless you fuck with Meshuggah. God said it. It's a universal law.

 

 

A lie, what once I was, obsolete instrument
An outmoded contraption, a malfunctioning device

That callous self now extinguished, that malignant self now disused
That conceited invention to nothing now reduced

Complete disintegration, the destruction of me now imperative
To purge myself of this condition, complete this dissolution a necessity

Break this deceitful machine

[Adam M]

@OBEler it’s only me for eternity! ???

 

(you could call it that)

[Adam M]

3 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Nope, it's consciousness..

Mind & Consciousness are interchangeable words.

 

Just labels. 
 

It doesn’t matter which label you use. There is no “official label” to describe the substance of reality. Choose your favourite one!

 

I like both Mind & Consciousness… mix it up! 
 

The only thing that matters is realizing that you’re eternally at the centre of all creation.

[ivankiss]

15 minutes ago, Adam M said:

Mind & Consciousness are interchangeable words.

Wouldn't say so, but sure, ok.

16 minutes ago, Adam M said:

Just labels. 

Yes. But a seeker that is not conscious and mature enough might be mislead by just labels.

18 minutes ago, Adam M said:

It doesn’t matter which label you use. There is no “official label” to describe the substance of reality. Choose your favourite one!

Again, it does not matter once you've awoken and you see things for what they are. On the very begging stages of your awakening it matters what labels you use. A thought, an idea, a belief, a wrong word... can lead you straight into hell. Believe it or not.

19 minutes ago, Adam M said:

The only thing that matters is realizing that you’re eternally at the centre of all creation.

Ok, yes, but the way you put that comes off a bit narcissistic. You are not the canter of all creation (which is duality btw), rather you are all of creation. You don't even have to mention it, or think about it. It's just how it is. The moment you state it, it kind of becomes cringy.