The Biggest Test of Your Progress In Spirituality

[BlueOak]

On 9/25/2023 at 4:56 PM, Razard86 said:

Close your eyes.....imagine a guy pointing a gun and shooting you.

Now....open your eyes and realize your current imagination is at human level, if you walked outside and that event you just imagined happened in the waking dream....it would hit a lot differently.

You think you can learn a lesson outside of physicality? HAH!!! I can't imagine with human imagination how something would feel, it doesn't have the depth of the intensity. But I can definitely experience it in 3-D and get the FULL EFFECT. The lessons you learn is not about understanding it conceptually but experientially.

It's why when you see someone's life who you think is harder than yours you say, "I would hate to be him" knowing full well that how you are imagining it doesn't even come CLOSE to how it feels to actually go through it. Now...if your imagination ability can reach God level....THEN you can experience the full intensity...but GOD level imagination...is what we call PHYSICALITY.

Inadvertently I understand your message we can learn by example. Good suggestion. I understand experience is required for many, but for me its not, a few points of reference are enough for suffering. I can experience empathy for another when I so choose. I also accept group consciousness changing, though I often try to resist it, I see it happen without experience of a direct event.

You are in what you are referring to as a waking dream. So you do learn everything outside of physicality. If you don't perceive that, then imagine you are in your nightly dream. You are already learning something outside of physicality even if you perceive your experience as a body that way.

For my own part, reality just is. There is nothing else. No dream, no body, no self-concept beyond what I (or the group) decide. I was fixing a split, an old belief I had stumbled over.

[Razard86]

8 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Inadvertently I understand your message we can learn by example. Good suggestion. I understand experience is required for many, but for me its not, a few points of reference are enough for suffering. I can experience empathy for another when I so choose. I also accept group consciousness changing, though I often try to resist it, I see it happen without experience of a direct event.

You are in what you are referring to as a waking dream. So you do learn everything outside of physicality. If you don't perceive that, then imagine you are in your nightly dream. You are already learning something outside of physicality even if you perceive your experience as a body that way.

For my own part, reality just is. There is nothing else. No dream, no body, no self-concept beyond what I (or the group) decide. I was fixing a split, an old belief I had stumbled over.

This is ego and arrogance. The point isn't to learn from mistakes, the point is to experience it. Sure you can know through watching someone else what mistakes not to make, but do you know WHY that person made those mistakes? Do you know what it is like to be a person who would make that mistake? NO!!!! So guess what? Time to experience what it would be like!! True empathy does not come from conceptualization, true empathy comes from DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF A THING!!!

Only as you go deeper in consciousness will you truly get it. Reality WILL experience every event. Each event is a state of consciousness as everything is just a state. So there is no wiggling out of this one. I get it, my ego doesn't like it either, but there are certain states I reach through meditation where it all makes sense. So even though I completely understand, I also know its my ego's arrogance that thinks it knows better. You don't know better and neither does my ego. 

[BlueOak]

18 hours ago, Razard86 said:

This is ego and arrogance. The point isn't to learn from mistakes, the point is to experience it. Sure you can know through watching someone else what mistakes not to make, but do you know WHY that person made those mistakes? Do you know what it is like to be a person who would make that mistake? NO!!!! So guess what? Time to experience what it would be like!! True empathy does not come from conceptualization, true empathy comes from DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF A THING!!!

Only as you go deeper in consciousness will you truly get it. Reality WILL experience every event. Each event is a state of consciousness as everything is just a state. So there is no wiggling out of this one. I get it, my ego doesn't like it either, but there are certain states I reach through meditation where it all makes sense. So even though I completely understand, I also know its my ego's arrogance that thinks it knows better. You don't know better and neither does my ego. 

I don't need to burn all five fingers, one is enough.

I am able to understand why people make the mistakes they make without experiencing their full lifetime. Do I understand every nuance, no because it's not necessary for empathy. It would be more necessary for specific and detailed advice but that is different. A skilled psychologist or councillor for example can understand things about a patient just by observation, or a teacher, or a mentor, or a friend, or a good boss. They may have discussed, explored, or observed the more intricate details of that person's life, before offering specific advice to a problem or challenge they were facing, it depends on how specific the need is.

There are common patterns inside people, cyclic events inside life, and even between lifetimes. You can see these and understand what generates them. There are so many commonalities between these patterns, that you can see them without being inside of them, especially if you've been in a pattern that is in any way related to it. Further than that I feel being supportive is often all someone needs, and helping where you can.

I understand enough about you to know you mean well and try to help. You don't need everything to align perfectly with how you view the world. It doesn't invalidate your perspective. By taking such strict definitions you limit yourself. For example, thinking you need specific experiences of everyone's lifetime to have empathy for them. You don't. If we talked enough you'd probably see enough common patterns from me, to understand me.

As a side note, there is no depth to consciousness. It is formless without dimension. Set an intent to experience that in your meditations. 

[BlueOak]

My intuition wants to add there is a singular pattern that all others are copied off, and if you understand this one, you can have empathy for all people. 

Love. - Lack of Love - Love - Lack of Love - Love - Lack of Love. - How do I get one and avoid the other?

Everything else is derivative.

Fill a void.
Assuming an identity. Defending or strengthening the identity.
Lust, Lies, Vanity. 
Defense. Protection. Evasion. Lies.
Offense. War.
Drugs, Drink, Loneliness.
Possessions. Hoarding. Greed.
Family. Social Group. Rebellion. Order. 
Self Worth, Self Pity.
Avoidance. Escapism. Workaholics. Pride in yourself. Pride in your identity.
Intellectual Curiosity, Acceptance, Denial, Overthinking a Problem.
Everything.

There is nothing anyone does that isn't directly related to the above pattern, even if it appears completely inverted. Life tends to be layered like this and if you get through all the conditioning it'll be this. With gradually more complicated patterns of behavior built on top.

Edited September 27, 2023 by BlueOak

[Razard86]

8 hours ago, BlueOak said:

I don't need to burn all five fingers, one is enough.

I am able to understand why people make the mistakes they make without experiencing their full lifetime. Do I understand every nuance, no because it's not necessary for empathy. It would be more necessary for specific and detailed advice but that is different. A skilled psychologist or councillor for example can understand things about a patient just by observation, or a teacher, or a mentor, or a friend, or a good boss. They may have discussed, explored, or observed the more intricate details of that person's life, before offering specific advice to a problem or challenge they were facing, it depends on how specific the need is.

There are common patterns inside people, cyclic events inside life, and even between lifetimes. You can see these and understand what generates them. There are so many commonalities between these patterns, that you can see them without being inside of them, especially if you've been in a pattern that is in any way related to it. Further than that I feel being supportive is often all someone needs, and helping where you can.

I understand enough about you to know you mean well and try to help. You don't need everything to align perfectly with how you view the world. It doesn't invalidate your perspective. By taking such strict definitions you limit yourself. For example, thinking you need specific experiences of everyone's lifetime to have empathy for them. You don't. If we talked enough you'd probably see enough common patterns from me, to understand me.

As a side note, there is no depth to consciousness. It is formless without dimension. Set an intent to experience that in your meditations. 

I say this with the utmost sincerity.....all complaints we have are just self-serving, they are just our selfishness. Not saying you aren't allowed to complain, based on what you have posted I am sorry that you are going through what you are going through.

 Sure you can observe, but observation is not the same as feeling those emotions. Empathy is not sympathy!!! You cannot understand someone unless you walk a mile in their shoes. All those supposed experts learn that they don't know shit. Why? Because it's one thing to observe something, it's another to be in it.  Additionally many of those people you mentioned, kill themselves!!! https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psymon-says/202302/why-are-psychologists-at-greater-risk-of-suicide

What usually has to happen is people in these occupations have to actually DETACH themselves, because the emotional toil to connect with someone in their emotional despair is taxing!! This is why it is tough to actually find people that empathize with you. It's really easy to sit here in the comfort of our home, and type "Oh I understand..."  I am not arrogant enough to think I understand the pain of someone with great physical suffering. 

Why? Because I went through my own suffering early in my life and I know that suffering can only be understood if you go through it. Only an arrogant ego thinks it can understand something without actually experiencing it, which means you still have much to learn. Don't worry, life will certainly humble that know it all mindset that our egos have....empathy is earned, sympathy is conceptual, empathy is experiential. 

Leo didn't apologize by accident, we often forget what it feels like to experience pain until we get a HEALTHY reminder. You cannot know LOVE without suffering, you cannot know empathy without suffering. Also I say this with an understanding that you are going through something tough right now. I apologize if I come across offensive as that is not my intention. But empathy is not some trifling thing, empathy is a rare emotional trait that majority of people you meet do not have. Majority of people with empathy are the old, as the young are too arrogant often to know real struggle.

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Razard86

[BlueOak]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

I say this with the utmost sincerity.....all complaints we have are just self-serving, they are just our selfishness. Not saying you aren't allowed to complain, based on what you have posted I am sorry that you are going through what you are going through.

 Sure you can observe, but observation is not the same as feeling those emotions. Empathy is not sympathy!!! You cannot understand someone unless you walk a mile in their shoes. All those supposed experts learn that they don't know shit. Why? Because it's one thing to observe something, it's another to be in it.  Additionally many of those people you mentioned, kill themselves!!! https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psymon-says/202302/why-are-psychologists-at-greater-risk-of-suicide

What usually has to happen is people in these occupations have to actually DETACH themselves, because the emotional toil to connect with someone in their emotional despair is taxing!! This is why it is tough to actually find people that empathize with you. It's really easy to sit here in the comfort of our home, and type "Oh I understand..."  I am not arrogant enough to think I understand the pain of someone with great physical suffering. 

Why? Because I went through my own suffering early in my life and I know that suffering can only be understood if you go through it. Only an arrogant ego thinks it can understand something without actually experiencing it, which means you still have much to learn. Don't worry, life will certainly humble that know it all mindset that our egos have....empathy is earned, sympathy is conceptual, empathy is experiential. 

Leo didn't apologize by accident, we often forget what it feels like to experience pain until we get a HEALTHY reminder. You cannot know LOVE without suffering, you cannot know empathy without suffering. Also I say this with an understanding that you are going through something tough right now. I apologize if I come across offensive as that is not my intention. But empathy is not some trifling thing, empathy is a rare emotional trait that majority of people you meet do not have. Majority of people with empathy are the old, as the young are too arrogant often to know real struggle.

 

We are different.

Your strengths and weaknesses are not mine. Your inabilities or abilities are not my inabilities or abilities. Your lack of growth or growth in certain areas are not my own. This is not arrogance, this is a fact. It is your reflection of arrogance (that you keep seeing) to believe every perspective must align with you on certain areas to be valid. I don't hold the same view. I do not inherently think your perspective holds less meaning because it is not my own, because all of this is a representation of my own mind.

I am able to perceive and empathize with people directly without experiencing exactly what they did. That is precisely my personality type, a mediator, diplomat or INFP-T to be precise.

https://www.16personalities.com/infp-personality

The proximity to what I have experienced in my life, may give me a stronger or weaker grasp on it or a stronger or weaker feeling, but it is there for everyone. As I have already indicated above, you can reduce these patterns to their base components and have emotional reactions to anything. All patterns have common components in them that can illicit feelings in us. Sure those feelings come from related experiences, but they also come from group experience, or as I have said recognizable suffering, success, hardships, or any emotion or circumstance.

You seem to perceive people to be an island, that every experience is individual only to that person. This is not the case. We don't need to live a billion lifetimes to understand and empathize with a billion different people. You seem unaware that collectively there is a greater mind, or collective mind, or even subconscious outside our own focus, which filters through into each of us to bridge gaps in understanding. Yes, this is also us, outside of our immediate experience.

Of course, people who empathize deeply with another take on a greater burden to add to their own. That is why most of us don't. That's why I am pretty hard with people. Why my boundaries are up most of the time, more so given my personality type. If you are in that field, where you open yourself up to often emotionally disturbed, suffering, or chaotic people you have to take time to clear yourself and look after yourself emotionally more so than usual.

The argument you cannot know love without suffering has always baffled me. You don't need the opposite to experience the current. You may define it differently or appreciate it more certainly. Your argument though is I need to know 8 billion opposites to understand something. No, not on the emotional level which is inherently broad or collectively understood in nature. Intellectually it benefits you to have more experiences certainly but it's not as necessary emotionally.

*In short, you are trying to invalidate anothers perspective because it doesn't match your own, and then saying you can't understand it. Well if you don't invalidate it, you'll be in a much better position to understand and empathize with it. If that is really your goal. You won't cut yourself up into pieces, the wall between them them | me, will dissolve more.

Edited September 28, 2023 by BlueOak

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, BlueOak said:

We are different.

Your strengths and weaknesses are not mine. Your inabilities or abilities are not my inabilities or abilities. Your lack of growth or growth in certain areas are not my own. This is not arrogance, this is a fact. It is your reflection of arrogance (that you keep seeing) to believe every perspective must align with you on certain areas to be valid. I don't hold the same view. I do not inherently think your perspective holds less meaning because it is not my own, because all of this is a representation of my own mind.

I am able to perceive and empathize with people directly without experiencing exactly what they did. That is precisely my personality type, a mediator, diplomat or INFP-T to be precise.

https://www.16personalities.com/infp-personality

The proximity to what I have experienced in my life, may give me a stronger or weaker grasp on it or a stronger or weaker feeling, but it is there for everyone. As I have already indicated above, you can reduce these patterns to their base components and have emotional reactions to anything. All patterns have common components in them that can illicit feelings in us. Sure those feelings come from related experiences, but they also come from group experience, or as I have said recognizable suffering, success, hardships, or any emotion or circumstance.

You seem to perceive people to be an island, that every experience is individual only to that person. This is not the case. We don't need to live a billion lifetimes to understand and empathize with a billion different people. You seem unaware that collectively there is a greater mind, or collective mind, or even subconscious outside our own focus, which filters through into each of us to bridge gaps in understanding. Yes, this is also us, outside of our immediate experience.

Of course, people who empathize deeply with another take on a greater burden to add to their own. That is why most of us don't. That's why I am pretty hard with people. Why my boundaries are up most of the time, more so given my personality type. If you are in that field, where you open yourself up to often emotionally disturbed, suffering, or chaotic people you have to take time to clear yourself and look after yourself emotionally more so than usual.

The argument you cannot know love without suffering has always baffled me. You don't need the opposite to experience the current. You may define it differently or appreciate it more certainly. Your argument though is I need to know 8 billion opposites to understand something. No, not on the emotional level which is inherently broad or collectively understood in nature. Intellectually it benefits you to have more experiences certainly but it's not as necessary emotionally.

*In short, you are trying to invalidate anothers perspective because it doesn't match your own, and then saying you can't understand it. Well if you don't invalidate it, you'll be in a much better position to understand and empathize with it. If that is really your goal. You won't cut yourself up into pieces, the wall between them them | me, will dissolve more.

You are NOT able to empathize, to empathize is to SHARE the emotional experience of a person. Your understanding of empathy is NOT TRUE EMPATHY. You think empathy is to understand the suffering of a person, that is some petty Westernized notion of empathy. This is what I mean!!! God is infinitely empathetic. Why? Because God has experienced EVERYTHING!!! Who do you think understands what its like to be crippled from birth? You? A person who takes for granted the many things you have and focused on what you don't have? You have no clue because of ignorance how much you are not aware of.

I don't have to know you personally as an individual to know this. Why? Because as you go deeper in this work you get to experience the experience of what you call others DIRECTLY!!! As a result you feel the conscious experience of being crippled, the conscious experience of being suicidal, the conscious experience of a whole HOST of things and THEN you know how they feel!!!

You are acting like watching someone on fire and feeling sorry for him is equivalent of actually feeling the fire. It's not the same. Like I said, you are referring to conceptual. Conceptual is sympathy. Experiential is empathy. It's not your fault you don't get it, because you haven't broken through the barrier of self and other.

Everybody you see is you so much, that YOU are the only one that suffers. But right now because your metaphysical selfishness (your human identity) your ability to experience the depths of their suffering is kept at bay. You can't even really even understand someone truly, as long as you are in the realm of concept. When you can access the conscious state of an other is when you TRULY become them at the highest level. You GET THEM so deeply you ARE THEM. 

THIS is true empathy. True empathy is the ABSENCE of barriers. That is why you have complete empathy for your current human avatar....because you have lived your own life. 

P.S. There is ONLY ONE EXPERIENCE, when you realize truly hopefully one day what that means...then you will realize that it is actually impossible for me to invalidate your experience at a certain state of consciousness because at that level...I am you. For many of you this is just a word game, a concept, you have no clue that you are ALL ALONE. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Razard86

[BlueOak]

By taking an individualist view of empathy or experience. You are literally cutting yourself off from experiencing empathy for someone else or collective experience. Try looking at it collectively, as if the collective has emotions, experiences or even memory, that might loosen this really strict disconnected definition or belief you have. Rather than making a declaration about another, because by your own belief system, you can't possibly understand me or anyone else. Do you see that contradiction? 

It is because you believe so strongly in your own perspective and dismiss aspects of another you cut yourself off from empathy with them. I am literally feeling what you are putting out in this message in my chest :D. I do not know the nuance of it all, but that is where intellect and emotions differ.

Emotions are broad concepts that don't require exact intellectual definition. They can be, and are often shared. Yes, you can see memories through another's eyes, I understand that. I've done that. However, that didn't grant any more empathy inside me than a deep and meaningful conversation that I can relate to.

Watching someone on fire. If i've burned my finger, or my hand in your example I can related to fire and the emotion it brings. I don't need to set myself on fire 50,000 times to understand 50,000 people on fire. I understand fear for your life too and pain, perhaps not on that level but severe pain. You are referring to severity while ignoring I've already mentioned it. I'll do so again:

The closer your experience to another's, the stronger the emotion or emotional reference point you'll have. The more you'll get them in simple terms. The empathy you can have for the perspective. Its not black or white, 1 or 0, life is rarely an absolute. You'll understand people more or less, depending how close their experiences are to yours, or how much you listen to or have experienced similar people sharing their life experiences with you. Your community, family, background etc.

You've also again completely missed that there are collective experiences communities share, without individual recollection of them. The same is true for the human race as a whole. It's why we don't need to live 1 billion lives to have empathy to 1 billion people. By the way, you can connect to the collective depression if you want, its a like a huge void, or a huge sadness that is so big. For that it's good to be out in nature, listening to the earth, same with collective love or collective anger. In fact, people seem very good at collectively sharing anger.

[BlueOak]

And by the way, if you prefer to use these terms:

Collective - All of you.
Other people - Other aspects of yourself.
Individualist - One part of yourself.

You repeatedly try to tell people that your perspective is superior, or higher, or wider, or X, because you are aware reality is modeled in your mind, and that you represent it to yourself and speak to yourself. Well, let's dismiss that block now. I already am aware of this. This part of your collective mind already understands it.

[Razard86]

6 hours ago, BlueOak said:

And by the way, if you prefer to use these terms:

Collective - All of you.
Other people - Other aspects of yourself.
Individualist - One part of yourself.

You repeatedly try to tell people that your perspective is superior, or higher, or wider, or X, because you are aware reality is modeled in your mind, and that you represent it to yourself and speak to yourself. Well, let's dismiss that block now. I already am aware of this. This part of your collective mind already understands it.

Every ego thinks it's perspective is higher or more correct. What do you think a disagreement is? I don't play this game, all of life plays this game. Like I said, you have much to learn. I said the same silly stuff you are saying now a month ago so I hope you continue on this path of thinking you know enough.

You know when your job of learning is done? When your life as that human is done. Until that happens you haven't learned everything you need to learn even if you delude yourself into thinking you have.

Again I have been in your mindset thinking I got it all figured out....lol and I was shown how little I actually knew. Majority of humans will only know love at death. It is what it is.

And lastly...YOU created this design. There isn't anyone else here but YOU. I'm YOU telling myself there is more to go.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Razard86

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Every ego thinks it's perspective is higher or more correct. What do you think a disagreement is? I don't play this game, all of life plays this game. Like I said, you have much to learn. I said the same silly stuff you are saying now a month ago so I hope you continue on this path of thinking you know enough.

You know when your job of learning is done? When your life as that human is done. Until that happens you haven't learned everything you need to learn even if you delude yourself into thinking you have.

Again I have been in your mindset thinking I got it all figured out....lol and I was shown how little I actually knew. Majority of humans will only know love at death. It is what it is.

And lastly...YOU created this design. There isn't anyone else here but YOU. I'm YOU telling myself there is more to go.

You split me and you into two parts. I don't. This conversation was a whole. I hope I have highlighted where those divides in you are, or at some point you'll see this repeated so often you can't ignore them. You say that you understand wholeness, but you still tier consciousness, or perspective, or understanding. You've cut yourself off from the reflection you are seeing while saying you are whole, and so denied yourself the ability to feel empathy for that part of yourself. Probably for good reason in your past, as you are talking about here. I needed to have that realised again, because I have been doing so again to people I considered to have a perspective 'lesser' than mine. It was an arrogance I needed to see in you judging me.

I enjoyed the chat, it gave me room to better form that whole. The dog or child teaches me as much about the moment I experience as the Guru or genius because it's me reflecting it to myself. So it does not matter where you tier consciousness or awareness for the purposes of self-reflection. There is nothing to figure out. Only questions you put there or puzzles you want to solve. You could say infinite or nothing.

Edited September 28, 2023 by BlueOak

[Razard86]

7 hours ago, BlueOak said:

You split me and you into two parts. I don't. This conversation was a whole. I hope I have highlighted where those divides in you are, or at some point you'll see this repeated so often you can't ignore them. You say that you understand wholeness, but you still tier consciousness, or perspective, or understanding. You've cut yourself off from the reflection you are seeing while saying you are whole, and so denied yourself the ability to feel empathy for that part of yourself. Probably for good reason in your past, as you are talking about here. I needed to have that realised again, because I have been doing so again to people I considered to have a perspective 'lesser' than mine. It was an arrogance I needed to see in you judging me.

I enjoyed the chat, it gave me room to better form that whole. The dog or child teaches me as much about the moment I experience as the Guru or genius because it's me reflecting it to myself. So it does not matter where you tier consciousness or awareness for the purposes of self-reflection. There is nothing to figure out. Only questions you put there or puzzles you want to solve. You could say infinite or nothing.

18 hours ago, BlueOak said:

We are different.

Your strengths and weaknesses are not mine. Your inabilities or abilities are not my inabilities or abilities. Your lack of growth or growth in certain areas are not my own. This is not arrogance, this is a fact. It is your reflection of arrogance (that you keep seeing) to believe every perspective must align with you on certain areas to be valid. I don't hold the same view. I do not inherently think your perspective holds less meaning because it is not my own, because all of this is a representation of my own mind.

I am able to perceive and empathize with people directly without experiencing exactly what they did. That is precisely my personality type, a mediator, diplomat or INFP-T to be precise.

https://www.16personalities.com/infp-personality

The proximity to what I have experienced in my life, may give me a stronger or weaker grasp on it or a stronger or weaker feeling, but it is there for everyone. As I have already indicated above, you can reduce these patterns to their base components and have emotional reactions to anything. All patterns have common components in them that can illicit feelings in us. Sure those feelings come from related experiences, but they also come from group experience, or as I have said recognizable suffering, success, hardships, or any emotion or circumstance.

You seem to perceive people to be an island, that every experience is individual only to that person. This is not the case. We don't need to live a billion lifetimes to understand and empathize with a billion different people. You seem unaware that collectively there is a greater mind, or collective mind, or even subconscious outside our own focus, which filters through into each of us to bridge gaps in understanding. Yes, this is also us, outside of our immediate experience.

Of course, people who empathize deeply with another take on a greater burden to add to their own. That is why most of us don't. That's why I am pretty hard with people. Why my boundaries are up most of the time, more so given my personality type. If you are in that field, where you open yourself up to often emotionally disturbed, suffering, or chaotic people you have to take time to clear yourself and look after yourself emotionally more so than usual.

The argument you cannot know love without suffering has always baffled me. You don't need the opposite to experience the current. You may define it differently or appreciate it more certainly. Your argument though is I need to know 8 billion opposites to understand something. No, not on the emotional level which is inherently broad or collectively understood in nature. Intellectually it benefits you to have more experiences certainly but it's not as necessary emotionally.

*In short, you are trying to invalidate anothers perspective because it doesn't match your own, and then saying you can't understand it. Well if you don't invalidate it, you'll be in a much better position to understand and empathize with it. If that is really your goal. You won't cut yourself up into pieces, the wall between them them | me, will dissolve more.

1. Language is inherently dualistic.

2. You said we are different....that is splitting into two parts.....

When we communicate, paradox is going to be inherent, and contradiction is going to be inherent because we are One Being talking to itself. It's like looking in the bathroom mirror and arguing with your reflection.....

[Razard86]

The ability to drop what we conceptually "know" allows us to experience the magic all around us. The deeper I go in this work the more I realize more and more how my bias holds back my ability to experience the fullness of what I am. 

[Yimpa]

8 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The ability to drop what we conceptually "know" allows us to experience the magic all around us. The deeper I go in this work the more I realize more and more how my bias holds back my ability to experience the fullness of what I am. 

Precisely. All the “magic” I’ve been experiencing lately has been the complete antithesis of what my family members (and me, of course) were brought up to believe.

Interesting how I only started to experience the magic when I dropped them, that is, my long-held ideas about them.

And the work still continues ;-)

[BlueOak]

 

3 hours ago, Razard86 said:

The ability to drop what we conceptually "know" allows us to experience the magic all around us. The deeper I go in this work the more I realize more and more how my bias holds back my ability to experience the fullness of what I am. 

Magic is another creation of mind. Not to say there is anything wrong with that.
Its not better or worse than the cutlery we eat dinner with. 

13 hours ago, Razard86 said:

1. Language is inherently dualistic.

2. You said we are different....that is splitting into two parts.....

When we communicate, paradox is going to be inherent, and contradiction is going to be inherent because we are One Being talking to itself. It's like looking in the bathroom mirror and arguing with your reflection.....

Language can be divisive or not, It doesn't change that you look at things purely from an individualist viewpoint. An absolute 1 or 0 which you demonstrate again here dividing up the conversation into me vs you. Ignoring collective experience entirely, ignore the infinite complexities of something. Its not black or white, an absolute yes or no. You employ language in a way to separate yourself from the reflection you are talking to, belittle it even to make sure its disassociated and apart. That's what all of your point was, it runs through your entire belief system, at least that which you have shown.

This goes in that box. This goes in that box. You speak as if you are separate from yourself, and every single person you meet. You tell me you understand there is no separation but your entire way of reasoning is telling me otherwise. Not just the words, but the things you focus on. (Btw that's why I was a match, because I do it to)

My hand is different to my foot yes, it has different properties in my mind, but it's not separate from me. Am I completely whole no. I wouldn't be here if I was. I am still broken in many ways. This is harsh and I apologize for being harsh. I hope ultimately this helps you see yourself, I honestly mean that and wish you well

Edited September 29, 2023 by BlueOak